Irish Blasphemy Referendum 2018

[Olerand]

It's fascinating how Ireland moved so quickly from a Catholic heartland to a bastion of Anglo-Saxon liberalism.

[Ifreann]

It's fascinating how Ireland moved so quickly from a Catholic heartland to a bastion of Anglo-Saxon liberalism.

We got rich and contemplated fancy liberal notions while we sipped over-priced lattes. Then we got poor again and came crashing back to the real world, but kept the fancy liberal notions.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Sucks for you. Move to Iran or SA if you want a theocracy

They don't have the Theocracy I'm looking for.

Your NS nation doesn’t mean anything.

Good thing I wasn't talking about it then

[Alvecia]

Sucks for you. Move to Iran or SA if you want a theocracy

They don't have the Theocracy I'm looking for.

Far be it from me to tell you the best way to advocate for theocracy, but would it not be significantly easier to start somewhere that is already sympathetic to that style of government?

[Kubumba Tribe]

They don't have the Theocracy I'm looking for.

Far be it from me to tell you the best way to advocate for theocracy, but would it not be significantly easier to start somewhere that is already sympathetic to that style of government?

Move there and change the Theocracy to something closer to Al-Islam, sounds nice. Difficult, but nice.

[Alvecia]

Far be it from me to tell you the best way to advocate for theocracy, but would it not be significantly easier to start somewhere that is already sympathetic to that style of government?

Move there and change the Theocracy to something closer to Al-Islam, sounds nice. Difficult, but nice.

Easier than changing a rather secular society

[Genivaria]

Not in Ireland.

I meant in the hypothetical situation of a religious Muslim -governed nation. Sorry for the misunderstanding. So it doesn't work the same way in Christianity?

But what stops soon one from breaking religious law and when they are caught claiming they weren’t really religious?

Your ID card.

Right.... That’s why Iran doesn’t punish Christians.... oh wait.

Either the ones being punished did something so horrible like murder or the Iranian government is doing it wrong.

"B-but their version is impure so it doesn't count! Mine is the TRUE ideology!"
Wow where have I heard that before?

[Thermodolia]

I meant in the hypothetical situation of a religious Muslim -governed nation. Sorry for the misunderstanding. So it doesn't work the same way in Christianity?



Your ID card.



Either the ones being punished did something so horrible like murder or the Iranian government is doing it wrong.

"B-but their version is impure so it doesn't count! Mine is the TRUE ideology!"
Wow where have I heard that before?

Religion, Politics, chicken restaurants.

[Internationalist Bastard]

"B-but their version is impure so it doesn't count! Mine is the TRUE ideology!"
Wow where have I heard that before?

Religion, Politics, chicken restaurants.

In most things I don’t believe in purity
But I will fight a crusade for Popeyes

[Olerand]

It's fascinating how Ireland moved so quickly from a Catholic heartland to a bastion of Anglo-Saxon liberalism.

We got rich and contemplated fancy liberal notions while we sipped over-priced lattes. Then we got poor again and came crashing back to the real world, but kept the fancy liberal notions.

You moved very quickly. The process of de-Christianization took the rest of us some time.

[The Grene Knyght]

We got rich and contemplated fancy liberal notions while we sipped over-priced lattes. Then we got poor again and came crashing back to the real world, but kept the fancy liberal notions.

You moved very quickly. The process of de-Christianization took the rest of us some time.

I think maybe it looks like that from the outside, but really it was going on under the surface since at least the 70s. But generally great social change takes place after great social upheaval, like the 2008 recession.

[Olerand]

You moved very quickly. The process of de-Christianization took the rest of us some time.

I think maybe it looks like that from the outside, but really it was going on under the surface since at least the 70s. But generally great social change takes place after great social upheaval, like the 2008 recession.

Ah I see. This makes some things more clear, I don't know much about Irish history; but this all did seem rather abrupt to me.

[Slavaryia]

It's fascinating how Ireland moved so quickly from a Catholic heartland to a bastion of Anglo-Saxon liberalism.

It is rather saddening. Really, the majority of the religious(catholic's) left in Ireland are elderly.
Most younger people, say, in their twenties have taken an atheist approach.
With the whole gay marriage, legalising abortion, and the possible removal of the blasphemy laws, which aren't even enforced, just there for show, Ireland might as well expose her rear to London and take it from her Queen already.

SJW's can claim this is a great thing and pat themselves on the back for making Ireland more progressive, but, seems to me they're removing another building block that's eventually going to make the house topple over.

[Olerand]

It's fascinating how Ireland moved so quickly from a Catholic heartland to a bastion of Anglo-Saxon liberalism.

It is rather saddening. Really, the majority of the religious(catholic's) left in Ireland are elderly.
Most younger people, say, in their twenties have taken an atheist approach.
With the whole gay marriage, legalising abortion, and the possible removal of the blasphemy laws, which aren't even enforced, just there for show, Ireland might as well expose her rear to London and take it from her Queen already.

SJW's can claim this is a great thing and pat themselves on the back for making Ireland more progressive, but, seems to me they're removing another building block that's eventually going to make the house topple over.

The poetic imagery that you have deployed in this post is... a choice.

I support Ireland's lurches leftward, though I wish that would translate into an abandonment of being one of the EU's most boldfaced tax thieves. Or they could just leave the Union, I don't care either way. Ireland came with Britain, and it can go out with it. A package deal in and out.

[Vassenor]

It's fascinating how Ireland moved so quickly from a Catholic heartland to a bastion of Anglo-Saxon liberalism.

It is rather saddening. Really, the majority of the religious(catholic's) left in Ireland are elderly.
Most younger people, say, in their twenties have taken an atheist approach.
With the whole gay marriage, legalising abortion, and the possible removal of the blasphemy laws, which aren't even enforced, just there for show, Ireland might as well expose her rear to London and take it from her Queen already.

SJW's can claim this is a great thing and pat themselves on the back for making Ireland more progressive, but, seems to me they're removing another building block that's eventually going to make the house topple over.

So in what way is the Republic's existence contingent on Catholic Theocracy?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

It is rather saddening. Really, the majority of the religious(catholic's) left in Ireland are elderly.
Most younger people, say, in their twenties have taken an atheist approach.
With the whole gay marriage, legalising abortion, and the possible removal of the blasphemy laws, which aren't even enforced, just there for show, Ireland might as well expose her rear to London and take it from her Queen already.

SJW's can claim this is a great thing and pat themselves on the back for making Ireland more progressive, but, seems to me they're removing another building block that's eventually going to make the house topple over.

So in what way is the Republic's existence contingent on Catholic Theocracy?

For what I have been told: It's one of the founding tenets of their formation as a country and it's part of their constitution.

In the Name of the Most Holy Trinity, from Whom is all authority and to Whom, as our final end, all actions both of men and States must be referred,
We, the people of Éire,
Humbly acknowledging all our obligations to our Divine Lord, Jesus Christ, Who sustained our fathers through centuries of trial,
Gratefully remembering their heroic and unremitting struggle to regain the rightful independence of our Nation,
And seeking to promote the common good, with due observance of Prudence, Justice and Charity, so that the dignity and freedom of the individual may be assured, true social order attained, the unity of our country restored, and concord established with other nations,
Do hereby adopt, enact, and give to ourselves this Constitution.
- Preamble of Bunreacht na hÉireann

I don't agree but this is what I have been told. Take it as you will.

[Slavaryia]

It is rather saddening. Really, the majority of the religious(catholic's) left in Ireland are elderly.
Most younger people, say, in their twenties have taken an atheist approach.
With the whole gay marriage, legalising abortion, and the possible removal of the blasphemy laws, which aren't even enforced, just there for show, Ireland might as well expose her rear to London and take it from her Queen already.

SJW's can claim this is a great thing and pat themselves on the back for making Ireland more progressive, but, seems to me they're removing another building block that's eventually going to make the house topple over.

So in what way is the Republic's existence contingent on Catholic Theocracy?

Who said Ireland was a Catholic theocracy? I was under the impression Ireland was governed by the Dáil.

[Ifreann]

It's fascinating how Ireland moved so quickly from a Catholic heartland to a bastion of Anglo-Saxon liberalism.

It is rather saddening. Really, the majority of the religious(catholic's) left in Ireland are elderly.
Most younger people, say, in their twenties have taken an atheist approach.
With the whole gay marriage, legalising abortion, and the possible removal of the blasphemy laws, which aren't even enforced, just there for show, Ireland might as well expose her rear to London and take it from her Queen already.

Because Catholicism was protecting us from British imperialism?

SJW's can claim this is a great thing and pat themselves on the back for making Ireland more progressive, but, seems to me they're removing another building block that's eventually going to make the house topple over.

I think we've suffered quite enough of the Church's "stability".

[Saint Lucifer Jesus]

Sauce

DUBLIN — For eight decades, the blasphemous of Ireland have risked the wrath not just of their maker and of the Roman Catholic Church, but of the government itself.

“The publication or utterance of blasphemous, seditious, or indecent matter is an offence which shall be punishable in accordance with law,” says Article 40 of the Irish Constitution.

But the government may soon step out of the religious enforcement business. In October, Irish citizens will vote in a referendum on whether the blasphemy clause should be stripped from the Constitution.

Government officials are also leaning toward giving voters a chance to jettison another artifact of old Ireland: a provision of the 1937 Constitution suggesting that a woman’s place is in the home.

As a practical matter, neither constitutional provision plays much of a role in modern Ireland, a country that little resembles the socially conservative bastion once firmly under the grip of the Catholic Church.

Whatever risks they may run in eternity, Irish blasphemers face little chance of punishment in this world. But the prohibition is still in the Constitution, and a corresponding law is on the books, with a top fine of almost $30,000.

Last year, the English actor Stephen Fry was reported to the Irish police for blasphemy after he made comments disparaging God in an interview on a religious affairs television program.

If he ever met God, Mr. Fry said, he would ask him: “How dare you create a world in which there is such misery that is not our fault. It’s not right. It’s utterly, utterly evil. Why should I respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid God who creates a world which is so full of injustice and pain?”

Prosecutors declined to pursue the case, and government officials have made clear that they view the blasphemy law as meaningless. Last year, Simon Harris, the health minister, called it “silly” and “a little embarrassing.”

When the law was introduced in 2009, officials claimed that they were just adhering to the constitutional requirement that one exist — and that they had written it to be essentially unenforceable. (The law replaced a measure outlawing only blasphemy against Christianity, not other faiths. It was found to be discriminatory.)

But Eoin Daly, a lecturer in constitutional law at the National University of Ireland, Galway, said that it was possible prosecution might occur in an “egregious case,” and that the law had a “chilling effect” as long as it stayed on the books.

Michael Nugent, a spokesman for the advocacy group Atheism Ireland, welcomed the referendum, saying that even in the absence of prosecutions the law was causing real damage to freedom of expression in Ireland, and to the country’s reputation abroad.

Mr. Nugent said he was aware of cases in which news organizations had “self-censored” to avoid the potential cost of a blasphemy complaint, however vexatious.

And internationally, he said, the wording of Ireland’s law has been taken up by Islamic states seeking to justify their own blasphemy laws.

“We became a Western poster boy for Islamic states and their oppressive practices,” Mr. Nugent said. “It’s never a good look when Pakistan, where people are killed for blasphemy, is speaking approvingly of your laws.”

In announcing the referendum on Tuesday, Ireland’s justice minister, Charles Flanagan, also pointed to countries where blasphemy was punishable by death.

“Such situations are abhorrent to our beliefs and values,” Mr. Flanagan said. “By removing this provision from our Constitution, we can send a strong message to the world that laws against blasphemy do not reflect Irish values.”

The second clause that may go before voters in October is in a part of the Constitution covering the family.

“In particular,” it says, “the State recognises that by her life within the home, woman gives to the State a support without which the common good cannot be achieved. The State shall, therefore, endeavour to ensure that mothers shall not be obliged by economic necessity to engage in labour to the neglect of their duties in the home.”

Ailbhe Smyth, a veteran feminist campaigner, said that provision was a relic.

“It was very patriarchal,” she said. “The problem was, it never did women any good. It was never used by any government to ensure that women, or anyone else who stayed in the home, got any extra support or recognition. It’s redundant and obsolete and needs to be placed with all the other relics that Ireland is now getting rid of.”

Irish citizens have, in fact, found repeated occasion in recent years to revisit the social strictures embedded in their Constitution. They have voted to allow divorce and same-sex marriage and, last month, to remove an abortion ban.

“Things like abortion and same-sex marriage and blasphemy are seen as religious issues, sectarian issues, and there is now a desire to remove them from the Constitution,” said Dr. Daly, the university lecturer. “It’s about how we make statements about ourselves and express our changing identity.”

Unlike the referendums on divorce, same-sex marriage and abortion, the move to decriminalize blasphemy has met with little opposition from the Irish Catholic Church or from most religious denominations.

David Quinn, a spokesman for the Iona Institute, a conservative Christian policy group, said he had long favored removing the blasphemy clause. He also supports either removing the clause on women in the home or changing it to make it gender neutral.

The blasphemy clause has drawn some support elsewhere. In 2013 a leading Dublin-based Islamic group, the Islamic Cultural Center, and the Knights of Columbanus, a conservative Catholic fraternity, both argued unsuccessfully against ending it at a constitutional convention in Dublin.

Ireland’s Constitution can be amended only by a majority vote in a popular referendum.

Other relevant sauces:

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2018/0828/988011-presidential-election/
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/atheist-ireland-to-launch-campaign-for-the-removal-of-blasphemy-law-37369069.html
https://iheu.org/blasphemy-accused-tell-ireland-time-abolish-blasphemy-law/
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/0612/970070-blasphemy/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/06/13/in-ireland-blasphemy-can-cost-you-30000-a-referendum-could-change-that/?utm_term=.af602329df3e
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44458814

On October 26 of this year, the same day as the Irish presidential election, a referendum will be held in which the Irish people will be able to vote to remove the offense of blasphemy from the Irish constitution and a campaign by Irish atheist groups is underway to persuade voters to vote in favor of the removal.

My thoughts: I hope the Irish people vote in favor of removing blasphemy as an offense from the Irish constitution. IMO, blasphemy laws have no place in modern western society where free speech and religious liberty are generally accept as core principles.



Hallelujah I say shoot the misbelievers ! Send them to your fictional Hell !

- Fremen Supreme
Sietch Apocalypse
What about you guys? What are your thoughts on this referendum to remove the prohibition on blasphemy from the Irish constitution?

[Vassenor]

So in what way is the Republic's existence contingent on Catholic Theocracy?

Who said Ireland was a Catholic theocracy? I was under the impression Ireland was governed by the Dáil.

Well if not being governed according to religious mandate will somehow destroy the country...

[Slavaryia]

It is rather saddening. Really, the majority of the religious(catholic's) left in Ireland are elderly.
Most younger people, say, in their twenties have taken an atheist approach.
With the whole gay marriage, legalising abortion, and the possible removal of the blasphemy laws, which aren't even enforced, just there for show, Ireland might as well expose her rear to London and take it from her Queen already.

Because Catholicism was protecting us from British imperialism?

SJW's can claim this is a great thing and pat themselves on the back for making Ireland more progressive, but, seems to me they're removing another building block that's eventually going to make the house topple over.

I think we've suffered quite enough of the Church's "stability".

No. That was in no way what was insinuated. I'm saying Ireland might as well be part of the UK, with the direction it's heading.

As for your second statement, I'm not even sure what you mean by that.

[Slavaryia]

Who said Ireland was a Catholic theocracy? I was under the impression Ireland was governed by the Dáil.

Well if not being governed according to religious mandate will somehow destroy the country...

Which aren't even enforced...

That's not really the problem. It's the point that they exist. It was one of the founding articles.
Atheists just want to get rid of it for the sake of getting rid of it. Eventually, they'll keep picking at the constitution until it's distorted and spoiled.

And yes. I want to keep it for the sake of keeping it.
I'd rather keep the facade of Ireland being religious than tear it away and see that it's not.

[Alvecia]

Well if not being governed according to religious mandate will somehow destroy the country...

Which aren't even enforced...

That's not really the problem. It's the point that they exist. It was one of the founding articles.
Atheists just want to get rid of it for the sake of getting rid of it. Eventually, they'll keep picking at the constitution until it's distorted spoiled.

If it's changed by the provisions laid out in said Constitution, then the Constitution is exactly as intended. Not distorted or spoiled.

[The Huskar Social Union]

It's fascinating how Ireland moved so quickly from a Catholic heartland to a bastion of Anglo-Saxon liberalism.

It is rather saddening. Really, the majority of the religious(catholic's) left in Ireland are elderly.
Most younger people, say, in their twenties have taken an atheist approach.
With the whole gay marriage, legalising abortion, and the possible removal of the blasphemy laws, which aren't even enforced, just there for show, Ireland might as well expose her rear to London and take it from her Queen already.

SJW's can claim this is a great thing and pat themselves on the back for making Ireland more progressive, but, seems to me they're removing another building block that's eventually going to make the house topple over.

1. Most people in Ireland both north and south, not just the elderly are still religious, it just does not play as big of a role in their lives any more, and when it does, they dont follow everything to do with that religion to the letter. Like the majority of religious people on the planet.
2. Nothing wrong with that, glad really imo.
3. So... letting gay people marry, allowing women the option to have a safe abortion at home instead of risking death or having to travel to the UK or elsewhere to have them, and getting rid of an outdated stupid law that was not enforced means we are just going to open up to the British waltzing back in and taking the place over? What?
4. Not really, Ireland is not going to collapse because people stop being religious, we will get on just fine.

[The Burke Islands]

Sounds like a step towards free speech, so go Ireland.