Runaway creates a kidnapper

[Fartsniffage]

How does one hook up with a gut?

Whatever you do, never google that question.

[Uxupox]

Because I'm not dense, that's why.

NO REASON? Give me one, non-sexual reason as to why an adult male would take a pretty, 12 year old girl to Manhattan for a "good time"

The thing is that the chat logs have not yet been released so we do not know the truth. The guy did state however that he met the girl and she told him that "she was 18".

[Lyras]

Because I'm not dense, that's why.

NO REASON? Give me one, non-sexual reason as to why an adult male would take a pretty, 12 year old girl to Manhattan for a "good time"

Because he hypothetically knew her parents were terrible, and thought she needed a break?
I was a youth worker for six years, and did stuff like this often. Most of the time the parents never noticed the kid was even gone.

Was the guy dodgey? We don't know. Maybe. But absent evidence, presumption of innocence ought to prevail.

[Gamergirl90]

NO REASON? Give me one, non-sexual reason as to why an adult male would take a pretty, 12 year old girl to Manhattan for a "good time"

Because he hypothetically knew her parents were terrible, and thought she needed a break?
I was a youth worker for six years, and did stuff like this often. Most of the time the parents never noticed the kid was even gone.

Was the guy dodgey? We don't know. Maybe. But absent evidence, presumption of innocence ought to prevail.

Since when do we need to prove someone guilty in order to arrest them?

[Saiwania]

TBH I don't know what I would do if a runaway asked me for a place to stay. Reporting them might not stop them from running, and refusing them runs the risk that they end up with someone worse.

Accept or invite them in, keep them preoccupied whilst you call the police, have the police take them off of your hands. You want to lure them into a false sense of security, to not run away again. Once the police have them detained, you'll have nothing to worry about and ideally, your part or involvement is over. More importantly, you wouldn't get caught with them unnecessarily to where it looks bad.

[Lyras]

TBH I don't know what I would do if a runaway asked me for a place to stay. Reporting them might not stop them from running, and refusing them runs the risk that they end up with someone worse.

Accept or invite them in, keep them preoccupied whilst you call the police, have the police take them off of your hands. You want to lure them into a false sense of security, to not run away again. Once the police have them detained, you'll have nothing to worry about and ideally, your part or involvement is over. More importantly, you wouldn't get caught with them unnecessarily to where it looks bad.

This will move the problem out of your hands, but won't resolve it.

[Dogmeat]

TBH I don't know what I would do if a runaway asked me for a place to stay. Reporting them might not stop them from running, and refusing them runs the risk that they end up with someone worse.

Accept or invite them in, keep them preoccupied whilst you call the police, have the police take them off of your hands. You want to lure them into a false sense of security, to not run away again. Once the police have them detained, you'll have nothing to worry about and ideally, your part or involvement is over. More importantly, you wouldn't get caught with them unnecessarily to where it looks bad.

This ensures that if they ever do run away again, they won't come to you for help.

Which is a great way to keep yourself safe, but will likely push them into the hands of someone who is more obviously anti-establishment who would be less likely to report them, and more likely to abuse them, should they ever run away again.

[Uxupox]

Accept or invite them in, keep them preoccupied whilst you call the police, have the police take them off of your hands. You want to lure them into a false sense of security, to not run away again. Once the police have them detained, you'll have nothing to worry about and ideally, your part or involvement is over. More importantly, you wouldn't get caught with them unnecessarily to where it looks bad.

This will move the problem out of your hands, but won't resolve it.

Honestly what he says might resolve it. After all if the law & order can't solve then how can you without adequate resources that they have at their disposal?

[Dogmeat]

This will move the problem out of your hands, but won't resolve it.

Honestly what he says might resolve it. After all if the law & order can't solve then how can you without adequate resources that they have at their disposal?

In my experience law and order is not particularly good at resolving family dysfunction.

[Uxupox]

Honestly what he says might resolve it. After all if the law & order can't solve then how can you without adequate resources that they have at their disposal?

In my experience law and order is not particularly good at resolving family dysfunction.

Well that's anecdotal data tbh. In particular experience they do rather well at solving issues or at least making them non-violent.

[Dogmeat]

In my experience law and order is not particularly good at resolving family dysfunction.

Well that's anecdotal data tbh. In particular experience they do rather well at solving issues or at least making them non-violent.

This was already non-violent.

[Des-Bal]

He's 19? Legally an adult. A stupid adult, but an adult.
He drove a minor to NYC and left her on her own. That is definitely endangering her.

Yes, he's a kidnapper. Sorry to destroy your world view.

That presumes that endangering a minor is the same thing as kidnapping a minor which itself implies that the existence of two different statutes is a gross violation of double jeopardy.

Would you like to reconsider your position or would you prefer to select one of the charges to strike from the books?

[Scomagia]

I could see charging the guy with contributing to the delinquency of a minor, since it's hard to believe that she didn't tell him she was running away. Kidnapping is preposterous. They're probably charging him with a felony so he can plea later to something lesser.

[Page]

TBH I don't know what I would do if a runaway asked me for a place to stay. Reporting them might not stop them from running, and refusing them runs the risk that they end up with someone worse.

Accept or invite them in, keep them preoccupied whilst you call the police, have the police take them off of your hands. You want to lure them into a false sense of security, to not run away again. Once the police have them detained, you'll have nothing to worry about and ideally, your part or involvement is over. More importantly, you wouldn't get caught with them unnecessarily to where it looks bad.

I don't think I would want to do that, some runaways are leaving abusive homes where what their parents do to them may not actually be illegal but still really fucked up, plus with how runaways can be charged with a crime, I would feel guilty if they ended up in juvie because I called the police.

If I encountered a runaway who asked for my help, I would look up a shelter for minors and point them in that direction, and offer some food and money to help them out before parting ways. This probably isn't a popular opinion, but most runaways are that way in the first place because the system failed them, and I've heard a lot of horror stories about how kids in foster care are treated. My aunt and uncle are foster parents and they are very compassionate and competent, but that seems to be the exception rather than the rule.

I just couldn't live with myself if calling the police on a runaway got them sent back to an abusive home.

[Scomagia]

Accept or invite them in, keep them preoccupied whilst you call the police, have the police take them off of your hands. You want to lure them into a false sense of security, to not run away again. Once the police have them detained, you'll have nothing to worry about and ideally, your part or involvement is over. More importantly, you wouldn't get caught with them unnecessarily to where it looks bad.

I don't think I would want to do that, some runaways are leaving abusive homes where what their parents do to them may not actually be illegal but still really fucked up, plus with how runaways can be charged with a crime, I would feel guilty if they ended up in juvie because I called the police.

If I encountered a runaway who asked for my help, I would look up a shelter for minors and point them in that direction, and offer some food and money to help them out before parting ways. This probably isn't a popular opinion, but most runaways are that way in the first place because the system failed them, and I've heard a lot of horror stories about how kids in foster care are treated. My aunt and uncle are foster parents and they are very compassionate and competent, but that seems to be the exception rather than the rule.

I just couldn't live with myself if calling the police on a runaway got them sent back to an abusive home.

I would be reticent to arbitrarily call the police on a runaway. I'd probably ask questions first to try and gauge whether they're in danger or just being a brat.

[Vallermoore]

Let him go if he didn't have sex with her or hurt her.

[Scomagia]

Let him go if he didn't have sex with her or hurt her.

That doesn't seem like a very good solution. Kidnapping is not an appropriate charge, we can all agree, but adults can't just take other people's children to entirely different cities without some sort of consequences. Contributing to the delinquency of a minor would be more fitting.

[Gamergirl90]

Let him go if he didn't have sex with her or hurt her.

That doesn't seem like a very good solution. Kidnapping is not an appropriate charge, we can all agree, but adults can't just take other people's children to entirely different cities without some sort of consequences. Contributing to the delinquency of a minor would be more fitting.

Why do you think we can all agree to that?

[Gamergirl90]

He should apologize, not knowing, but he shouldn't be charged. He didn't seem to have any ill intent and some people here have mentioned he thought she was of age anyway.

I say he's innocent, in this context.

Isnt determining guily or innocence something we have trials for? Since when is it necessary to be able to prove someone committed a crime in order to arrest them?

[Scomagia]

That doesn't seem like a very good solution. Kidnapping is not an appropriate charge, we can all agree, but adults can't just take other people's children to entirely different cities without some sort of consequences. Contributing to the delinquency of a minor would be more fitting.

Why do you think we can all agree to that?

Because he didn't kidnap her. Thought that much was obvious.

[Costa Fierro]

He's 19? Legally an adult. A stupid adult, but an adult.
He drove a minor to NYC and left her on her own. That is definitely endangering her.

Yes, he's a kidnapper. Sorry to destroy your world view.

That presumes that endangering a minor is the same thing as kidnapping a minor which itself implies that the existence of two different statutes is a gross violation of double jeopardy.

Would you like to reconsider your position or would you prefer to select one of the charges to strike from the books?

I'll take "Double Down" for $500, Alex.

[Gamergirl90]

Why do you think we can all agree to that?

Because he didn't kidnap her. Thought that much was obvious.

He transported a minor, without the knowledge and consent of her parents, to an area the did not know. Seems quite possible that he did kidnap her.

[Lyras]

He should apologize, not knowing, but he shouldn't be charged. He didn't seem to have any ill intent and some people here have mentioned he thought she was of age anyway.

I say he's innocent, in this context.

Isnt determining guily or innocence something we have trials for? Since when is it necessary to be able to prove someone committed a crime in order to arrest them?

Not 'proof beyond reasonable doubt', but certainly a 'prima facie'-standard proof. On what has been made available here, that isn't satisfied. Kidnapping requires coercion of the person being kidnapped. It must be conducted against their will. It must be able to be established to be the case. And age is not a factor here (for kidnapping itself), as there is no explicit suggestion of sexual misconduct.

No case for kidnapping to answer.

[Costa Fierro]

Because he didn't kidnap her. Thought that much was obvious.

He transported a minor, without the knowledge and consent of her parents, to an area the did not know. Seems quite possible that he did kidnap her.

She also willingly went with him and had arranged for him to pick her up. Kidnapping would imply she was taken against her will and/or with force.

[Scomagia]

Because he didn't kidnap her. Thought that much was obvious.

He transported a minor, without the knowledge and consent of her parents, to an area the did not know. Seems quite possible that he did kidnap her.

She arranged the entire thing because she wanted to run away. Should the adult be punished for enabling her running away? Absolutely. It's not okay to facilitate delinquency. But that's all this was. It wasn't a kidnapping.