Trolley Paradox

[Auristania]

Dilemma 1) You a signalman at a Railway Station (railroad in USA) a train's brakes have failed, it will crash and kill 5 people. You could pull a lever, divert the train to a branch line and kill one person. There was a survey 90 % will pull the lever.

Dilemma 2) The train's brakes have failed. There is a fat man sitting on a bridge. Ifn you push the fat man off the bridge, he will stop the train and save the others. In the survey, 90% had a violent moral objection,

Dilemma 3) You are a Doctor with 6 patients: Adele needs a Heart transplant; Brian needs Lung transplant; Charlotte needs Kidney; David needs Liver; Emma needs Lymph. Frank has toothache and the rest of his body is healthy. Do you chop up Frank to save 5 people? Again 90% voted against.

My opinion

1) is a no brainer, I pull the lever.
3) I bellyfeel it is a different question and I vote against, but I have no coherent theory to justify why killing 1 to save 5 is good in the one case but not the other.

Most people considered dil 2 in the same category as dil 3 and refused. I disagree I would push the fat man if and only if could work, If and only if he were heavy enough to stop the train. BUT ifn he were heavy enough to stop a train, then I could not push him; it is known

[Cannot think of a name]

I’d blow up the trolley so I never have to hear someone go on about the trolley problem ever again.

[Mushet]

[Fartsniffage]

I was once asked this question in a corporate training exercise. Apparently the simple decision to save the most people without a discussion was weird.

[Northeast American Federation]

One and two, generally speaking, you try to save the most people.
Three is somewhat different, as you are a doctor, and therefore probably have the Hippocratic Oath to keep to. That "do no harm" factor isn't there in the other two hypotheticals. You would save more people in doing so, but harm is still harm.

[Internationalist Bastard]

I rig the trolly up to travel at 88 mph, go back in time and kill the creator of the trolly problem

[Auristania]

I’d blow up the trolley so I never have to hear someone go on about the trolley problem ever again.

What value are you putting on your Peace of Mind?

Paradoces are irritating and if that trolley were full of a billion hypothetical people, I would blow it up too. But if there were a real person on that trolley, I would rather live with the inconvenience of Paradox than murder the Innocent.

Likewise if that Trolley were full of Guilty real People who could solve all the Paradoces, I would blow it up and live with the Paradoces.

[Auristania]

I rig the trolly up to travel at 88 mph, go back in time and kill the creator of the trolly problem

[Cannot think of a name]

I’d blow up the trolley so I never have to hear someone go on about the trolley problem ever again.

What value are you putting on your Peace of Mind?

Paradoces are irritating and if that trolley were full of a billion hypothetical people, I would blow it up too. But if there were a real person on that trolley, I would rather live with the inconvenience of Paradox than murder the Innocent.

Likewise if that Trolley were full of Guilty real People who could solve all the Paradoces, I would blow it up and live with the Paradoces.

My piece of mind will come from not listening to first year philosophy students go on and on about this ever again. Only interrupted by the reality that they’ll just start going on about something else. Maybe they’ll resurrect game theory, that was equally nauseating.

[Farnhamia]

I’d blow up the trolley so I never have to hear someone go on about the trolley problem ever again.

What value are you putting on your Peace of Mind?

Paradoces are irritating and if that trolley were full of a billion hypothetical people, I would blow it up too. But if there were a real person on that trolley, I would rather live with the inconvenience of Paradox than murder the Innocent.

Likewise if that Trolley were full of Guilty real People who could solve all the Paradoces, I would blow it up and live with the Paradoces.

Paradoxes.

[The Right of Might]

lemme stop you right there chief before you make a normative claim. lets solidify our metaphysics and epistemology first to apply to our metaethical theory.

yknow ethics are comprised of 3 things: metaethics (the ontology and epistemology of moral properties/judgements), descriptive ethics (facts [insert epistemological/metaphysical debate here] that we know about humans [insert epistemological debate here, foucault need not apply] in relation to moral properties. the "fact" part of the fact-value divide) and then we got prescriptive ethics which stems into two branches: generalism (theres a set of "rules" that we can use to determine moral judgements) and particularism (no moral principles, moral judgements can only be determined on a case-by-case basis).
normative claims are like this: "y is bad because x reason". y is a descriptive claim, describing the act while x is from the metaethics. this, assuming moral statements can have a truth value attached to them.

[Cannot think of a name]

Edit:I’m sick of hearing about the trolley problem was the gist. Feel free to have this conversation for the first time ever without me.

[The Black Forrest]

Edit:I’m sick of hearing about the trolley problem was the gist. Feel free to have this conversation for the first time ever without me.

It got a resurgence due to the Good Place

[New Excalibus]

(Image)

The true best way. Instead of making everyone mad at you for killing one or five, they're angry because you killed six.

[Auristania]

What value are you putting on your Peace of Mind?

Paradoces are irritating and if that trolley were full of a billion hypothetical people, I would blow it up too. But if there were a real person on that trolley, I would rather live with the inconvenience of Paradox than murder the Innocent.

Likewise if that Trolley were full of Guilty real People who could solve all the Paradoces, I would blow it up and live with the Paradoces.

Paradoxes.

Are you sure? It was many years ago that I studied Greek.

Most words ending in x take plurals in ges or ces. Does Paradox have paradoxical plurals?

[Farnhamia]

Paradoxes.

Are you sure? It was many years ago that I studied Greek.

Most words ending in x take plurals in ges or ces. Does Paradox have paradoxical plurals?

Are we speaking Greek? Let me check ... No, we're not. The plural of "paradox" in English is "paradoxes." I would have gone with "paradoges" because it's pronounced "para-doggies."

[Fartsniffage]

Are you sure? It was many years ago that I studied Greek.

Most words ending in x take plurals in ges or ces. Does Paradox have paradoxical plurals?

Are we speaking Greek? Let me check ... No, we're not. The plural of "paradox" in English is "paradoxes." I would have gone with "paradoges" because it's pronounced "para-doggies."

But what is the plural of octopus?

[Cannot think of a name]

Edit:I’m sick of hearing about the trolley problem was the gist. Feel free to have this conversation for the first time ever without me.

It got a resurgence due to the Good Place

It made a bad problem worse.

And it really shouldn’t have, since that whole episode essentially mocked the idea of going on about it.

[Auristania]

Are we speaking Greek? Let me check ... No, we're not. The plural of "paradox" in English is "paradoxes." I would have gone with "paradoges" because it's pronounced "para-doggies."

But what is the plural of octopus?

Octopodes. You would think it would be Octopi, but it's 5th declension pous - podis.

[Fartsniffage]

But what is the plural of octopus?

Octopodes. You would think it would be Octopi, but it's 5th declension pous - podis.

Says you....

[Valrifell]

The Trolley Problem isn't a paradox, it's a moral dilemma and I will fight anyone who says otherwise.

[Olthar]

I blare the horn to alert the people standing on the track that the trolley is coming. If they don't move out of the way, then it's not my problem. I did my part.

[Auristania]

After these fascinating plurals of Lemmas. please let us return to the Dilemma. Why is dil#3 different from dil#1?

Dil#2 is totally stupid and impossible. But 3 versus 1 is a thing

[Fartsniffage]

The Trolley Problem isn't a paradox, it's a moral dilemma and I will fight anyone who says otherwise.

If it was a real paradox then it would have popped up in an episode of Star Trek. QED.

[Olthar]

But what is the plural of octopus?

Octopodes. You would think it would be Octopi, but it's 5th declension pous - podis.

It's actually just octopuses.