"I Refuse To Apologize"

[Scomagia]

Hey, I'm a very honest husband...

Come to think of it, that might explain all the dented pans and memory loss.

Repeat after me.

The answer to do these pants make me look fat?

is not

"No, the 15 lbs. You put on after the second kid do.

Serious answer: I don't answer questions like that.

Less serious answer: I love how big your ass looks in those pants. (I like em big)

[Happsborough]

1. Definitely not. In such a situation the person analogous to Gordo should have gotten a detention but thats it.
2. Yes, as it would be in my best interests.
3. Only if they are the one aggravating the situation, in this case the fictional Simon.
4. I don't know. Apologies for such actions that would land you in prison are far more severe than simple schoolyard things.
5. I guess satisfaction to one of the parties involved?

[Internationalist Bastard]

Personal experience taught me that when you become a violent person, something generally caused it

Usually. Bullies oftentimes have hard lives at home or have been abused. However, plenty of people are abused or have hard lives at home and do not end up murdering a bunch of people.

Of course it doesn’t justify it
But I’m not discounting how much bullying fucks you up

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Usually. Bullies oftentimes have hard lives at home or have been abused. However, plenty of people are abused or have hard lives at home and do not end up murdering a bunch of people.

Of course it doesn’t justify it
But I’m not discounting how much bullying fucks you up

Well, no, it does, you're right. And many bullies have been victims of abuse themselves. Their behavior didn't spring in a vacuum very often. But I have a hard time being sympathetic about bullies who go on to murder people. I feel the same about victims of bullying who do the same. Life's tough, and shitty at times, and the cards you're dealt stink at times, but that is not an excuse to murder others.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Of course it doesn’t justify it
But I’m not discounting how much bullying fucks you up

Well, no, it does, you're right. And many bullies have been victims of abuse themselves. Their behavior didn't spring in a vacuum very often. But I have a hard time being sympathetic about bullies who go on to murder people. I feel the same about victims of bullying who do the same. Life's tough, and shitty at times, and the cards you're dealt stink at times, but that is not an excuse to murder others.

I agree

[Dagnia]

If there is anyone who should be giving an apology, it's the school. Even when I went to school in the 90s and early 2000s, these places were incredibly locked down, had cameras everywhere, you had to carry your books around because they didn't want you carrying your bags between classes, and administrators constantly barking at you like it's a prison or military camp during the 5 minutes you had to go to your lockers, get your books and get to your next class (and this was a normal suburban public school for normal kids, not a reform or military school). There was no excuse for anyone to be unsafe (probably even less of one now), yet there was always someone experiencing a great deal of bullying. Junior high school was probably the most oppressive and controlled, yet it was also where we preyed on each other the most. There were many instances where there were insincere apologies given to bullies, and many of us, including myself, developed a kiss up and punch down mentality, that has served me quite well at some workplaces, but still makes me feel slimy and causes me to stealthily check Monster for new opportunities. I sometimes hear the term "anarcho-tyranny" in the context of societies with heavy police states that still manage to have a lot of crime (which itself is a tool of control) and can't help but think that's what we were being prepared to accept as adults.

Sorry for the blog. As to the specific questions:
1. In the hypothetical, is the school justified in trying to make Gordo apologise? Is the school justified in escalating the punishments with each refusal to apologise? Why?
No, and I'm in full agreement with the OP that it's a form of attempted mind control. If the goal is just to make him run his voice and move his lips and tongue in a way that produces the words they want, when those words are opposite of what is in his heart and mind, it teaches Gordo it's desirable to be insincere.

2. If you were Gordo, would you apologise? Why?
No. I'm on the fence on whether or not what he did was even wrong. Simon is a predator who if it wasn't a fist in the face today, it would be a bullet in the head in adulthood.

3. Should schools make students apologise to each other, to the school, or to others as part of its discipline process?
Make? No. Encourage them to empathize with others and see how this hurts others and not be sociopaths, so they will want to? Yes.

4. Should prisons make/incentivise convicts apologise/show remorse for their crimes? Explain.
Same as for question 3, though in cases where the criminal is incapable of having a moral compass due to a personality disorder or mental illness, even encouragement is a lost cause.

5. What is the value (if any) of an insincere apology that appears sincere on a formalistic level? Explain.
The value is a negative one. Simon's bullying is kind of given an official legitimacy because it has never been punished yet when the bullied takes action against him, then there is a punishment. Simon can bully all he wants, and the bullied has to like it. Simon is in total control.

[Sovaal]

Imho Gordo doesn't have to apologise for shit.

Although I feel sorry for anyone with the name Gordo. Just add an n at the end guys.

[Valrifell]

Imho Gordo doesn't have to apologise for shit.

Although I feel sorry for anyone with the name Gordo. Just add an n at the end guys.

It's apparently Spanish for "fat."

No wonder he was bullied.

[The Blaatschapen]

Forced apologies are meaningless.

[The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord]

If there is anyone who should be giving an apology, it's the school. Even when I went to school in the 90s and early 2000s, these places were incredibly locked down, had cameras everywhere, you had to carry your books around because they didn't want you carrying your bags between classes, and administrators constantly barking at you like it's a prison or military camp during the 5 minutes you had to go to your lockers, get your books and get to your next class (and this was a normal suburban public school for normal kids, not a reform or military school). There was no excuse for anyone to be unsafe (probably even less of one now), yet there was always someone experiencing a great deal of bullying. Junior high school was probably the most oppressive and controlled, yet it was also where we preyed on each other the most. There were many instances where there were insincere apologies given to bullies, and many of us, including myself, developed a kiss up and punch down mentality, that has served me quite well at some workplaces, but still makes me feel slimy and causes me to stealthily check Monster for new opportunities. I sometimes hear the term "anarcho-tyranny" in the context of societies with heavy police states that still manage to have a lot of crime (which itself is a tool of control) and can't help but think that's what we were being prepared to accept as adults.

Sorry for the blog. As to the specific questions:
1. In the hypothetical, is the school justified in trying to make Gordo apologise? Is the school justified in escalating the punishments with each refusal to apologise? Why?
No, and I'm in full agreement with the OP that it's a form of attempted mind control. If the goal is just to make him run his voice and move his lips and tongue in a way that produces the words they want, when those words are opposite of what is in his heart and mind, it teaches Gordo it's desirable to be insincere.

2. If you were Gordo, would you apologise? Why?
No. I'm on the fence on whether or not what he did was even wrong. Simon is a predator who if it wasn't a fist in the face today, it would be a bullet in the head in adulthood.

3. Should schools make students apologise to each other, to the school, or to others as part of its discipline process?
Make? No. Encourage them to empathize with others and see how this hurts others and not be sociopaths, so they will want to? Yes.

4. Should prisons make/incentivise convicts apologise/show remorse for their crimes? Explain.
Same as for question 3, though in cases where the criminal is incapable of having a moral compass due to a personality disorder or mental illness, even encouragement is a lost cause.

5. What is the value (if any) of an insincere apology that appears sincere on a formalistic level? Explain.
The value is a negative one. Simon's bullying is kind of given an official legitimacy because it has never been punished yet when the bullied takes action against him, then there is a punishment. Simon can bully all he wants, and the bullied has to like it. Simon is in total control.

Your response to Question Five brings back memories of the severe bullying I received in Elementary and Middle School. When I finally tried to stand up for myself, I was punished harshly, whereas the bullies, if they received any punishment at all (They often got off scot free), received little more than a “slap-on-the-wrist” so to speak.

[Infected Mushroom]

Has literally NO ONE ELSE seen The Gift with Jason Bateman and Edgerton?

Did the name “Gordo,” a scenario involving bullying and apologies, and a bully/popular Simon Not give it away?

The movie is really that niche?

[The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord]

Has literally NO ONE ELSE seen The Gift with Jason Bateman and Edgerton?

Did the name “Gordo,” a scenario involving bullying and apologies, and a bully/popular Simon Not give it away?

The movie is really that niche?

I’ve never seen it; do you recommend it?

[Infected Mushroom]

Has literally NO ONE ELSE seen The Gift with Jason Bateman and Edgerton?

Did the name “Gordo,” a scenario involving bullying and apologies, and a bully/popular Simon Not give it away?

The movie is really that niche?

I’ve never seen it; do you recommend it?

Yes

Ending ruins the movie imo but it’s very very good

Watch and this hypothetical will read differently

[Vince Vaughn]

What if Gordo used an automatic weapon instead?

[Ethel mermania]

Has literally NO ONE ELSE seen The Gift with Jason Bateman and Edgerton?

Did the name “Gordo,” a scenario involving bullying and apologies, and a bully/popular Simon Not give it away?

The movie is really that niche?

Never saw it.

[New haven america]

Has literally NO ONE ELSE seen The Gift with Jason Bateman and Edgerton?

Did the name “Gordo,” a scenario involving bullying and apologies, and a bully/popular Simon Not give it away?

The movie is really that niche?

What's a "Jason Bateman"?

[Geneviev]

1. They shouldn't make him apologise.
2. Absolutely not, it was his fault.
3. No.
4. No. A lot could go wrong there.
5. It has no value. It's a lie.

[Infected Mushroom]

Has literally NO ONE ELSE seen The Gift with Jason Bateman and Edgerton?

Did the name “Gordo,” a scenario involving bullying and apologies, and a bully/popular Simon Not give it away?

The movie is really that niche?

What's a "Jason Bateman"?

You know...

The friendly consultant from Hancock, Office Christmas Party???

[Infected Mushroom]

What if Gordo used an automatic weapon instead?

He would have likely killed Simon and then made a run for it

But for the rest of his life, if he’s not dead or in jail...

He’s going to look over his shoulder; he’s going to second guess his shadow; he’s going to suspect and doubt everyone and everything; he won’t sleep well...

[Auristania]

Please discuss the following:

1. In the hypothetical, is the school justified in trying to make Gordo apologise? Is the school justified in escalating the punishments with each refusal to apologise? Why?
2. If you were Gordo, would you apologise? Why?
3. Should schools make students apologise to each other, to the school, or to others as part of its discipline process?
4. Should prisons make/incentivise convicts apologise/show remorse for their crimes? Explain.
5. What is the value (if any) of an insincere apology that appears sincere on a formalistic level? Explain.

1) PC infallible dogma the Victim is to blame.
I disagree with PC.

2) I ain't as brave as Gordo. I would cave.

3) No but they will.

He’s going to look over his shoulder; he’s going to second guess his shadow; he’s going to suspect and doubt everyone and everything; he won’t sleep well...

Likewise if Bully is still doing it, then Gordo is always scared and looking over his shoulder.


Given that Bully is efficient and Police are inefficient, therefore Gordo's best chance of survival is kill Bully.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Schools (at least in America) can still punish you for acts you have performed outside of school if the reasons behind said action orginated in a school environment

Rather than relying on the school to punish such crimes, shouldn't that be up to the police instead?

I'm tired of this notion that children are immune from the law. If adults were just as immune it'd be one thing, but since they're not it just creates "now or never" incentives for crime. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if that was part of what was driving bullying in the first place.

[Des-Bal]

1. In the hypothetical, is the school justified in trying to make Gordo apologise? Is the school justified in escalating the punishments with each refusal to apologise? Why?

Yes, the issue is the belief that it is better to resort to violence in order to resolve a dispute then even attempt the proper channels. This is not an acceptable attitude.

2. If you were Gordo, would you apologise? Why?

Yes because "over my dead body I would never dishonor myself" is something that one of your crazy hypothetical people would say and violence as a first resort is generally a poor policy.

3. Should schools make students apologise to each other, to the school, or to others as part of its discipline process?

Yes, recognition of wrongdoing can fix interpersonal conflicts and prevent broader discipline issues.

4. Should prisons make/incentivise convicts apologise/show remorse for their crimes? Explain.

They should be encouraged to show remorse if they admit guilt. If a person maintains their innocence it is unconscionable to demand they show remorse.

5. What is the value (if any) of an insincere apology that appears sincere on a formalistic level? Explain.

It shows a willingness to submit to decorum, that if you can't be genuinely sorry you'll at least be civil.

[Sovaal]

Imho Gordo doesn't have to apologise for shit.

Although I feel sorry for anyone with the name Gordo. Just add an n at the end guys.

It's apparently Spanish for "fat."

No wonder he was bullied.

Shit it gets even worse.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Imho Gordo doesn't have to apologise for shit.

Although I feel sorry for anyone with the name Gordo. Just add an n at the end guys.

It's apparently Spanish for "fat."

No wonder he was bullied.

Depends on context. In Spanish, ''gordo'' can be used to refer to a man that is fat or as an endearing term for a boy/man (''gordito''). I have seen is as a name, Gordo, before. In fact, an example in media was the character of Gordo, in the Nickelodeon show Lizzie McGuire. It has it's origins, as a name, in the Celtic language (IIRC, it means ''great hill''). It's a variant of the English and Scottish name Gordon.

[Aellex]

Gordo should have just "apologized" without actually apologizing at all which would have been quite easy given he apparently had free form for it.
In such cases, no one will give you flak for following the law to the letter rather than the spirit.