Marie Le Pen ordered to undergo psychiatric examination

[Mardla]

A French court has ordered far-right leader Marine Le Pen to undergo psychiatric tests as part of an inquiry into her sharing images of Islamic State group atrocities.

Ms Le Pen tweeted pictures of the court order, calling the move “crazy”.

She posted the images back in 2015, including one showing the decapitated body of IS victim James Foley.

She has been stripped of her immunity as a parliamentarian and she could still face a fine or even jail.

https://www.theamericanconservative.com ... of-france/

Thoughts? Are you opposed to this?

Here is my take: the left prides itself on the idea of the "sovereign subject" and "consensual" society. This is impossible (I explain why in the OP of my sig). Therefore in order to maintain legitimacy the left must increasingly pathologize its opposition, i.e. say it is not of sound mind to say what it opposes or consents to. Dostoevsky noticed this and made sport of it in Notes from Underground. Paul Gottfried made an in-depth documentation of this danger in After Liberalism, with Theodore Adorno's The Authoritarian Personality as a important watermark. Tomorrow one can certainly imagine "homophobia" becoming classed as a pathology, and being used to invalidate opposition to homosexuality. Or "racism" as a pathology, used to invalidate opposition to immigration.

[Page]

Marie Le Pen disgusts me, I find her ideology to be utterly vile, but I am absolutely against this. This is the state using psychiatry as a weapon against its enemies, that is scary shit.

Also, while I am not a fan of people tweeting gore images without some kind of content warning, I do not think that should be a crime.

[The of Japan]

Marie Le Pen disgusts me, I find her ideology to be utterly vile, but I am absolutely against this. This is the state using psychiatry as a weapon against its enemies, that is scary shit.

Also, while I am not a fan of people tweeting gore images without some kind of content warning, I do not think that should be a crime.

exactly right on

[Mardla]

Marie Le Pen disgusts me, I find her ideology to be utterly vile, but I am absolutely against this. This is the state using psychiatry as a weapon against its enemies, that is scary shit.

Also, while I am not a fan of people tweeting gore images without some kind of content warning, I do not think that should be a crime.

It must use psychiatry as a weapon. Liberalism has given it no other option, because liberalism says you can't compel without consent. Even punishment of criminals can only be justified in liberalism as treating people who are "confused".

[Petrasylvania]

It's French law, not a leftist conspiracy. :^]

[Page]

It's French law, not a leftist conspiracy. :^]

Is it? I'm not well-versed in French law, I'll admit, but is it standard procedure that a psychiatric evaluation comes with indictment for a crime? For shoplifting, vandalism, tax evasion too? Or just for certain crimes?

[Petrasylvania]

It's French law, not a leftist conspiracy. :^]

Is it? I'm not well-versed in French law, I'll admit, but is it standard procedure that a psychiatric evaluation comes with indictment for a crime? For shoplifting, vandalism, tax evasion too? Or just for certain crimes?

French court orders Le Pen to submit to psychiatric evaluation

Le Pen was placed under formal investigation in March on suspicion of disseminating violent images. The law states that medical evaluations must be carried out in such probes.

[Mardla]

It's French law, not a leftist conspiracy. :^]

Is it? I'm not well-versed in French law, I'll admit, but is it standard procedure that a psychiatric evaluation comes with indictment for a crime? For shoplifting, vandalism, tax evasion too? Or just for certain crimes?

It is needed to get around parliamentary immunity here

[Sukberia]

A French court has ordered far-right leader Marine Le Pen to undergo psychiatric tests as part of an inquiry into her sharing images of Islamic State group atrocities.

Ms Le Pen tweeted pictures of the court order, calling the move “crazy”.

She posted the images back in 2015, including one showing the decapitated body of IS victim James Foley.

She has been stripped of her immunity as a parliamentarian and she could still face a fine or even jail.

https://www.theamericanconservative.com ... of-france/

Thoughts? Are you opposed to this?

Here is my take: the left prides itself on the idea of the "sovereign subject" and "consensual" society. This is impossible (I explain why in the OP of my sig). Therefore in order to maintain legitimacy the left must increasingly pathologize its opposition, i.e. say it is not of sound mind to say what it opposes or consents to. Dostoevsky noticed this and made sport of it in Notes from Underground. Paul Gottfried made an in-depth documentation of this danger in After Liberalism, with Theodore Adorno's The Authoritarian Personality as a important watermark. Tomorrow one can certainly imagine "homophobia" becoming classed as a pathology, and being used to invalidate opposition to homosexuality. Or "racism" as a pathology, used to invalidate opposition to immigration.

The "left" didn't decide anything. Its french law. She knew damn well what she was about to do when she posted those vidéos.
But yeah, lets blame the "left".

And what "left" would That be, you conspiracy nut-job? Those who asked do This are from Macron's party since he has the majority. And Macron is a right-winger.

[Petrolheadia]

It's not about the topic, but the violent nature of these images.

[Mardla]

It's not about the topic, but the violent nature of these images.

In theory. The main goal is actually to get a negative psychiatric examination. There is a reason representatives normally have immunity from prosecution; it is obvious. The only thong that *can* be gained here is her being found unfit to be a representative (which is why she is so opposed to an examination to begin with, she isn't worried about the investigation per se). In fact depending on the law, she might not have broken it; but the prize here is the psychiatric evaluation. It is quite possible all representatives in France will be expected to submit to one in order to hold office

[Mardla]

https://www.theamericanconservative.com ... of-france/

Thoughts? Are you opposed to this?

Here is my take: the left prides itself on the idea of the "sovereign subject" and "consensual" society. This is impossible (I explain why in the OP of my sig). Therefore in order to maintain legitimacy the left must increasingly pathologize its opposition, i.e. say it is not of sound mind to say what it opposes or consents to. Dostoevsky noticed this and made sport of it in Notes from Underground. Paul Gottfried made an in-depth documentation of this danger in After Liberalism, with Theodore Adorno's The Authoritarian Personality as a important watermark. Tomorrow one can certainly imagine "homophobia" becoming classed as a pathology, and being used to invalidate opposition to homosexuality. Or "racism" as a pathology, used to invalidate opposition to immigration.

The "left" didn't decide anything. Its french law. She knew damn well what she was about to do when she posted those vidéos.
But yeah, lets blame the "left".

And what "left" would That be, you conspiracy nut-job? Those who asked do This are from Macron's party since he has the majority. And Macron is a right-winger.

By what criteria is he a right winger? Please give me something that is not purely nominal

[Petrasylvania]

It's not about the topic, but the violent nature of these images.

In theory. The main goal is actually to get a negative psychiatric examination. There is a reason representatives normally have immunity for prosecution; it is obvious. The only thong that *can* be gained here is her being found unfit to be a representative (which is why she is so opposed to an examination to begin with, she isn't worried about the investigation per se). In fact depending on the law, she might not have broken it; but the prize here is the psychiatric evaluation. It is quite possible all representatives in France will be expected to submit to one in order to hold office

A long standing French law was enacted specifically to "get" Marine Le Pen now? Do tell us what evidence you have or what psychic powers you have.

[Mystic Warriors]

A French court has ordered far-right leader Marine Le Pen to undergo psychiatric tests as part of an inquiry into her sharing images of Islamic State group atrocities.

Ms Le Pen tweeted pictures of the court order, calling the move “crazy”.

She posted the images back in 2015, including one showing the decapitated body of IS victim James Foley.

She has been stripped of her immunity as a parliamentarian and she could still face a fine or even jail.

https://www.theamericanconservative.com ... of-france/

Thoughts? Are you opposed to this?

Here is my take: the left prides itself on the idea of the "sovereign subject" and "consensual" society. This is impossible (I explain why in the OP of my sig). Therefore in order to maintain legitimacy the left must increasingly pathologize its opposition, i.e. say it is not of sound mind to say what it opposes or consents to. Dostoevsky noticed this and made sport of it in Notes from Underground. Paul Gottfried made an in-depth documentation of this danger in After Liberalism, with Theodore Adorno's The Authoritarian Personality as a important watermark. Tomorrow one can certainly imagine "homophobia" becoming classed as a pathology, and being used to invalidate opposition to homosexuality. Or "racism" as a pathology, used to invalidate opposition to immigration.

I have no issue with this she broke the law, but you do seem to be using this as leverage to demonize the left, the left has nothing to do with this. And by definition both racism and homophobia could be seen that way, as you would be hating someone over the way they are born.

[Mardla]

In theory. The main goal is actually to get a negative psychiatric examination. There is a reason representatives normally have immunity for prosecution; it is obvious. The only thong that *can* be gained here is her being found unfit to be a representative (which is why she is so opposed to an examination to begin with, she isn't worried about the investigation per se). In fact depending on the law, she might not have broken it; but the prize here is the psychiatric evaluation. It is quite possible all representatives in France will be expected to submit to one in order to hold office

A long standing French law was enacted specifically to "get" Marine Le Pen now? Do tell us what evidence you have or what psychic powers you have.

But you did not understand my op at all. I did not say this was just about Le Pen, but fundamental to the left (and French is very left)

[Mystic Warriors]

The "left" didn't decide anything. Its french law. She knew damn well what she was about to do when she posted those vidéos.
But yeah, lets blame the "left".

And what "left" would That be, you conspiracy nut-job? Those who asked do This are from Macron's party since he has the majority. And Macron is a right-winger.

By what criteria is he a right winger? Please give me something that is not purely nominal

Macron is not a right winger, his party is centrist to center left

[Sukberia]

The "left" didn't decide anything. Its french law. She knew damn well what she was about to do when she posted those vidéos.
But yeah, lets blame the "left".

And what "left" would That be, you conspiracy nut-job? Those who asked do This are from Macron's party since he has the majority. And Macron is a right-winger.

By what criteria is he a right winger? Please give me something that is not purely nominal

He diminished taxes on the rich.
He stopped the aided jobs.
He diminished taxes on the big companies.
He's ally with MODEM, a center-right party.
He has made several statementd against secularism, a core tenent of the left.
He's constantly bashing the poor.
Most of his party are ex-UMPS, the conservalite party.
His PM is from UMP, as well as the Economy Minister and Public finances.
He's tough on immigration (This Is actually a good thing)
He's budsies with Trump.

[Sukberia]

By what criteria is he a right winger? Please give me something that is not purely nominal

Macron is not a right winger, his party is centrist to center left

Bullshit, i'm more leftist than hum ad i voted le Pen

[Mardla]

https://www.theamericanconservative.com ... of-france/

Thoughts? Are you opposed to this?

Here is my take: the left prides itself on the idea of the "sovereign subject" and "consensual" society. This is impossible (I explain why in the OP of my sig). Therefore in order to maintain legitimacy the left must increasingly pathologize its opposition, i.e. say it is not of sound mind to say what it opposes or consents to. Dostoevsky noticed this and made sport of it in Notes from Underground. Paul Gottfried made an in-depth documentation of this danger in After Liberalism, with Theodore Adorno's The Authoritarian Personality as a important watermark. Tomorrow one can certainly imagine "homophobia" becoming classed as a pathology, and being used to invalidate opposition to homosexuality. Or "racism" as a pathology, used to invalidate opposition to immigration.

I have no issue with this she broke the law, but you do seem to be using this as leverage to demonize the left, the left has nothing to do with this. And by definition both racism and homophobia could be seen that way, as you would be hating someone over the way they are born.

I am not demonizing the left, rather I am noting that the left validates what it demonizes by pathologizing it. The reason it doee this is because the left wishes to eradicate coercion and make society purely consensual; so those who dissent are found unfit to decide to dissent or consent.

I myself recognize coercion is necessary, and that people can dissent and sometimes must be coerced, although that does not mean they are insane

[Mardla]

By what criteria is he a right winger? Please give me something that is not purely nominal

He diminished taxes on the rich.
He stopped the aided jobs.
He diminished taxes on the big companies.
He's ally with MODEM, a center-right party.
He has made several statementd against secularism, a core tenent of the left.
He's constantly bashing the poor.
Most of his party are ex-UMPS, the conservalite party.
His PM is from UMP, as well as the Economy Minister and Public finances.
He's tough on immigration (This Is actually a good thing)
He's budsies with Trump.

Cutting taxes when they're as insanely high as they are in France, hardly is enough to make you "right wing".

He is not really "tough" on immigration, he just isn't Merkel.

The rest is largely nominal

[Mystic Warriors]

I have no issue with this she broke the law, but you do seem to be using this as leverage to demonize the left, the left has nothing to do with this. And by definition both racism and homophobia could be seen that way, as you would be hating someone over the way they are born.

I am not demonizing the left, rather I am noting that the left validates what it demonizes by pathologizing it. The reason it doee this is because the left wishes to eradicate coercion and make society purely consensual; so those who dissent are found unfit to decide to dissent or consent.

I myself recognize coercion is necessary, and that people can dissent and sometimes must be coerced, although that does not mean they are insane

The same could be said of the right. I have dealt with this personally where everything they are against is a mental disorder. I get tired of being told I need therapy because I am left wing.

[Cedoria]

Not in favour of weaponising psychiatry against enemies, thanks.

Just because I think La Pen is crazy, doesn't mean the state should pathologise her as such. If this is the only way left to oppose her crap, we have bigger problems then we know.

[USS Monitor]

I have no issue with this she broke the law, but you do seem to be using this as leverage to demonize the left, the left has nothing to do with this. And by definition both racism and homophobia could be seen that way, as you would be hating someone over the way they are born.

I am not demonizing the left, rather I am noting that the left validates what it demonizes by pathologizing it. The reason it doee this is because the left wishes to eradicate coercion and make society purely consensual; so those who dissent are found unfit to decide to dissent or consent.

I myself recognize coercion is necessary, and that people can dissent and sometimes must be coerced, although that does not mean they are insane

No, you're demonizing the left.

[Mystic Warriors]

Macron is not a right winger, his party is centrist to center left

Bullshit, i'm more leftist than hum ad i voted le Pen

Hum? His party is en marche and is not right wing.

[Mardla]

I am not demonizing the left, rather I am noting that the left validates what it demonizes by pathologizing it. The reason it doee this is because the left wishes to eradicate coercion and make society purely consensual; so those who dissent are found unfit to decide to dissent or consent.

I myself recognize coercion is necessary, and that people can dissent and sometimes must be coerced, although that does not mean they are insane

The same could be said of the right. I have dealt with this personally where everything they are against is a mental disorder. I get tired of being told I need therapy because I am left wing.

Yeah, that's popular lingo, not really comparable to actually clinically pathologizing.