NationStates

It’s probably a terrible idea to bring up, but I think it’s an important societal question that should be discussed civilly, given its relevance in both the past and the present.

We all know it. We’ve seen pictures of people with Hitler mustaches slapped on them, we all know Godwin’s law. We’ve used and abused such terms. Actual fascists, militant antifascists, and everyone in between has been affected by these words before. But in today’s age, fascist has arguably turned into a political epithet, used to describe everyone from Donald Trump to Barack Obama to Joseph Stalin. It’s been debated before, but does using fascist as an insult take away from the villainous acts committed by fascist regimes? Does it further polarize and divide us in a time already considered divisive? I say that it does. Fascism is not to be taken lightly, and to many it’s merely a word to describe your opponent, or an “edgy joke that you normies wouldn’t understand”. This casual use of the word makes fascism seem like a walk in the park, a simple way to make your opponent evil, or a “joke for shock value”. Similar concepts apply to red-baiting. Americans have often heard that “Democrats are communists, Republicans are Nazis”. Economic reforms are considered the first step towards a dictatorial communist regime where the party cannot be questioned and everyone is dying in a gulag. Using tyrannical ideologies as political epithets makes the true evil of those ideologies trivialized. By misusing these terms, we are normalizing the ideals these people supported.

But that’s just my opinion. I’m trying hard to be civil, and I hope everyone else does too.

Sadly, it doesn't mean much anymore. Way too overused.

Trump isn't a Fascist, he's just an asshole.

Fascism is a term used to describe all political positions outside of progressive social democracy.

It means at least as much as "Socialism" in modern political discussion.

Actual fascism (as in the original Italian definition of it) is virtually extinct, and nowadays it is used as nothing more than a buzzword to smear one's political opponents.

No it does not mean anything for someone who hasthe education of not being properly informed and has the attention span longer than the equivalent of lisa simpson. Fascist is a nice word opponents use to label republicans and everyone you do not tend to disagree with and is easily politically discharged.

Albrenia wrote:Sadly, it doesn't mean much anymore. Way too overused.

Trump isn't a Fascist, he's just an asshole.

True. But this issue long predates trumps presidency or his campaign. Reductio ad Hitlerum as a term, predates both Trump and Godwin’s law, being coined in the 1950s

Albrenia wrote:Sadly, it doesn't mean much anymore. Way too overused.

Trump isn't a Fascist, he's just an asshole.

Yes he's a fascist. Look at how he is governing. He's manipulating the people and his speech.

Albrenia wrote:Sadly, it doesn't mean much anymore. Way too overused.

Trump isn't a Fascist, he's just an asshole.

You get the sense that he sort of wants to be Benito Mussolini, but can't quite pull it off.

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:It’s probably a terrible idea to bring up, but I think it’s an important societal question that should be discussed civilly, given its relevance in both the past and the present.

We all know it. We’ve seen pictures of people with Hitler mustaches slapped on them, we all know Godwin’s law. We’ve used and abused such terms. Actual fascists, militant antifascists, and everyone in between has been affected by these words before. But in today’s age, fascist has arguably turned into a political epithet, used to describe everyone from Donald Trump to Barack Obama to Joseph Stalin. It’s been debated before, but does using fascist as an insult take away from the villainous acts committed by fascist regimes? Does it further polarize and divide us in a time already considered divisive? I say that it does. Fascism is not to be taken lightly, and to many it’s merely a word to describe your opponent, or an “edgy joke that you normies wouldn’t understand”. This casual use of the word makes fascism seem like a walk in the park, a simple way to make your opponent evil, or a “joke for shock value”. Similar concepts apply to red-baiting. Americans have often heard that “Democrats are communists, Republicans are Nazis”. Economic reforms are considered the first step towards a dictatorial communist regime where the party cannot be questioned and everyone is dying in a gulag. Using tyrannical ideologies as political epithets makes the true evil of those ideologies trivialized. By misusing these terms, we are normalizing the ideals these people supported.

But that’s just my opinion. I’m trying hard to be civil, and I hope everyone else does too.

Considering you were complaining about my use of the word Fascist to describe a group that self-identifies as Fascist in the other thread, I would argue you are a prime example of misuse of the word, namely by criticising others who apply it appropriately.

Cosmopolitan borovan wrote:

Albrenia wrote:Sadly, it doesn't mean much anymore. Way too overused.

Trump isn't a Fascist, he's just an asshole.

Yes he's a fascist. Look at how he is governing. He's manipulating the people and his speech.

But that's just manipulative, not fascist. That happens across every political ideology, not just Trump.

Cosmopolitan borovan wrote:

Albrenia wrote:Sadly, it doesn't mean much anymore. Way too overused.

Trump isn't a Fascist, he's just an asshole.

Yes he's a fascist. Look at how he is governing. He's manipulating the people and his speech.

Which part of that is supposed to make him a Fascist. Be specific.

Cosmopolitan borovan wrote:

Albrenia wrote:Sadly, it doesn't mean much anymore. Way too overused.

Trump isn't a Fascist, he's just an asshole.

Yes he's a fascist. Look at how he is governing. He's manipulating the people and his speech.

Yeah no.

Dogmeat wrote:

Albrenia wrote:Sadly, it doesn't mean much anymore. Way too overused.

Trump isn't a Fascist, he's just an asshole.

You get the sense that he sort of wants to be Benito Mussolini, but can't quite pull it off.

Considering Mussolini was the fuck-up of the Axis powers, it makes it even funnier.

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:

Albrenia wrote:Sadly, it doesn't mean much anymore. Way too overused.

Trump isn't a Fascist, he's just an asshole.

True. But this issue long predates trumps presidency or his campaign. Reductio ad Hitlerum as a term, predates both Trump and Godwin’s law, being coined in the 1950s

Didn't Godwin come out recently and say he was perfectly happy for people to use the term in relation to Trump, and that one shouldn't invoke Godwin's law.

I agree Trump isn't Hitler. At best he's a large-print low-IQ version of Franco. Franco for idiots.

Western Vale Confederacy wrote:Actual fascism (as in the original Italian definition of it) is virtually extinct, and nowadays it is used as nothing more than a buzzword to smear one's political opponents.

Of course, I’d argue that the misuse of the term would actually embolden actual fascists, because they could just say “you’re just using fascist as an insult”. So, even worse, actual fascists are being strengthened by this misuse.

Cedoria wrote:

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:It’s probably a terrible idea to bring up, but I think it’s an important societal question that should be discussed civilly, given its relevance in both the past and the present.

We all know it. We’ve seen pictures of people with Hitler mustaches slapped on them, we all know Godwin’s law. We’ve used and abused such terms. Actual fascists, militant antifascists, and everyone in between has been affected by these words before. But in today’s age, fascist has arguably turned into a political epithet, used to describe everyone from Donald Trump to Barack Obama to Joseph Stalin. It’s been debated before, but does using fascist as an insult take away from the villainous acts committed by fascist regimes? Does it further polarize and divide us in a time already considered divisive? I say that it does. Fascism is not to be taken lightly, and to many it’s merely a word to describe your opponent, or an “edgy joke that you normies wouldn’t understand”. This casual use of the word makes fascism seem like a walk in the park, a simple way to make your opponent evil, or a “joke for shock value”. Similar concepts apply to red-baiting. Americans have often heard that “Democrats are communists, Republicans are Nazis”. Economic reforms are considered the first step towards a dictatorial communist regime where the party cannot be questioned and everyone is dying in a gulag. Using tyrannical ideologies as political epithets makes the true evil of those ideologies trivialized. By misusing these terms, we are normalizing the ideals these people supported.

But that’s just my opinion. I’m trying hard to be civil, and I hope everyone else does too.

Considering you were complaining about my use of the word Fascist to describe a group that self-identifies as Fascist in the other thread, I would argue you are a prime example of misuse of the word, namely by criticising others who apply it appropriately.

I never said I haven’t misused it. But that discussion did make me wonder what fascism truly means today.

Fascism is just a term the far left like to throw at anyone who doesn't agree with them. This essentially means from conservatives to libertarians and classical liberals in their eyes are all fascists. Though by the original definition fascism once employed its pretty much dead. Fascism now has the same meaning as sexism in that is overused in situations which it has no connection and as such barely means anything anymore.

It's an old issue. OLD. Adorno was doing this stupid shit in The Authortarian Personality, funding by the American Jewish Committee. Any interested in all that should read After Liberalism, by Paul Gottfried

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:

Cedoria wrote:
Considering you were complaining about my use of the word Fascist to describe a group that self-identifies as Fascist in the other thread, I would argue you are a prime example of misuse of the word, namely by criticising others who apply it appropriately.

I never said I haven’t misused it. But that discussion did make me wonder what fascism truly means today.

It's pretty easy to define. And a person who calls themself a Fascist should absolutely do so

The only thing overused about that conversation was the amount of times people told me that I shouldn't use the term Fascist to describe people who use the term to describe themselves. Sometimes, the jackboot fits.

Vadterland wrote:

Cosmopolitan borovan wrote:Yes he's a fascist. Look at how he is governing. He's manipulating the people and his speech.

But that's just manipulative, not fascist. That happens across every political ideology, not just Trump.

Perhaps I may have confused the definition.

Dogmeat wrote:

Cosmopolitan borovan wrote:Yes he's a fascist. Look at how he is governing. He's manipulating the people and his speech.

Which part of that is supposed to make him a Fascist. Be specific.

He is using his persona as a celebrity and a non-politician to manipulate uneducated voters in rural areas and the average voter that does not vote often. It is like propaganda used so he can sway for his own agenda to go deport illegal immigrants.

The actual use of "fascism" Is just something that the people just use and dont even know what that mean or its origin they just use it because famous people used ir against political rivals because it sound like a good insult and then everyone uses it..... and no much people understand what fascism was in reality

Dogmeat wrote:

Albrenia wrote:Sadly, it doesn't mean much anymore. Way too overused.

Trump isn't a Fascist, he's just an asshole.

You get the sense that he sort of wants to be Benito Mussolini, but can't quite pull it off.

He does not dress nearly as well as Benito.

And no he is not a fascist. He is a New York City real estate developer. There is a hell of a difference.

Calling him a fascist just disqualifies the person saying it from being qualified to have a real political debate.

Mardla wrote:It's an old issue. OLD. Adorno was doing this stupid shit in The Authortarian Personality, funding by the American Jewish Committee. Any interested in all that should read After Liberalism, by Paul Gottfried

Heck even Orwell was whinging about Fascism being the most overused word in political lexicon in the late 40s. Using the word loosely is not at all a new thing.

We tend to utilise the word Fascist or Fascism when we really mean Authoritarian. It demonstrates a recognition of a tendency of those in authority to make decisions that are said to be on our behalf or for our own good, but are unpopular. Whether the policies are beneficial to us the people depends on whether we believe that the people in authority are the right ones.

True Fascist states in the real world tend to be in the developing world, whilst in NS they tend to be those owned by people who wish they had power and influence in the real world.