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Does “Fascist” Mean Anything Anymore?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Do you agree that fascism is misused by the public as a buzzword?

Yes, Fascist is little more than an epithet these days.
105
41%
No, The public is doing its responsibilities calling out fascists.
20
8%
Sort of, Fascism is a major threat but misuse only worsens the problem.
73
29%
Fascism should not be tolerated, and force is necessary to combat it.
26
10%
I am a fascist.
31
12%
 
Total votes : 255

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West Leas Oros 2
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Does “Fascist” Mean Anything Anymore?

Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:07 pm

It’s probably a terrible idea to bring up, but I think it’s an important societal question that should be discussed civilly, given its relevance in both the past and the present.

We all know it. We’ve seen pictures of people with Hitler mustaches slapped on them, we all know Godwin’s law. We’ve used and abused such terms. Actual fascists, militant antifascists, and everyone in between has been affected by these words before. But in today’s age, fascist has arguably turned into a political epithet, used to describe everyone from Donald Trump to Barack Obama to Joseph Stalin. It’s been debated before, but does using fascist as an insult take away from the villainous acts committed by fascist regimes? Does it further polarize and divide us in a time already considered divisive? I say that it does. Fascism is not to be taken lightly, and to many it’s merely a word to describe your opponent, or an “edgy joke that you normies wouldn’t understand”. This casual use of the word makes fascism seem like a walk in the park, a simple way to make your opponent evil, or a “joke for shock value”. Similar concepts apply to red-baiting. Americans have often heard that “Democrats are communists, Republicans are Nazis”. Economic reforms are considered the first step towards a dictatorial communist regime where the party cannot be questioned and everyone is dying in a gulag. Using tyrannical ideologies as political epithets makes the true evil of those ideologies trivialized. By misusing these terms, we are normalizing the ideals these people supported.

But that’s just my opinion. I’m trying hard to be civil, and I hope everyone else does too.
Last edited by West Leas Oros 2 on Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Albrenia
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Postby Albrenia » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:09 pm

Sadly, it doesn't mean much anymore. Way too overused.

Trump isn't a Fascist, he's just an asshole.

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Postby Right wing humour squad » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:10 pm

Fascism is a term used to describe all political positions outside of progressive social democracy.
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Myrensis
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Postby Myrensis » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:11 pm

It means at least as much as "Socialism" in modern political discussion.

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Western Vale Confederacy
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Postby Western Vale Confederacy » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:12 pm

Actual fascism (as in the original Italian definition of it) is virtually extinct, and nowadays it is used as nothing more than a buzzword to smear one's political opponents.

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Cosmopolitan borovan
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Postby Cosmopolitan borovan » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:13 pm

No it does not mean anything for someone who hasthe education of not being properly informed and has the attention span longer than the equivalent of lisa simpson. Fascist is a nice word opponents use to label republicans and everyone you do not tend to disagree with and is easily politically discharged.

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West Leas Oros 2
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Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:14 pm

Albrenia wrote:Sadly, it doesn't mean much anymore. Way too overused.

Trump isn't a Fascist, he's just an asshole.

True. But this issue long predates trumps presidency or his campaign. Reductio ad Hitlerum as a term, predates both Trump and Godwin’s law, being coined in the 1950s
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Postby Cosmopolitan borovan » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:14 pm

Albrenia wrote:Sadly, it doesn't mean much anymore. Way too overused.

Trump isn't a Fascist, he's just an asshole.

Yes he's a fascist. Look at how he is governing. He's manipulating the people and his speech.

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Postby Dogmeat » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:14 pm

Albrenia wrote:Sadly, it doesn't mean much anymore. Way too overused.

Trump isn't a Fascist, he's just an asshole.

You get the sense that he sort of wants to be Benito Mussolini, but can't quite pull it off.
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Postby Cedoria » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:15 pm

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:It’s probably a terrible idea to bring up, but I think it’s an important societal question that should be discussed civilly, given its relevance in both the past and the present.

We all know it. We’ve seen pictures of people with Hitler mustaches slapped on them, we all know Godwin’s law. We’ve used and abused such terms. Actual fascists, militant antifascists, and everyone in between has been affected by these words before. But in today’s age, fascist has arguably turned into a political epithet, used to describe everyone from Donald Trump to Barack Obama to Joseph Stalin. It’s been debated before, but does using fascist as an insult take away from the villainous acts committed by fascist regimes? Does it further polarize and divide us in a time already considered divisive? I say that it does. Fascism is not to be taken lightly, and to many it’s merely a word to describe your opponent, or an “edgy joke that you normies wouldn’t understand”. This casual use of the word makes fascism seem like a walk in the park, a simple way to make your opponent evil, or a “joke for shock value”. Similar concepts apply to red-baiting. Americans have often heard that “Democrats are communists, Republicans are Nazis”. Economic reforms are considered the first step towards a dictatorial communist regime where the party cannot be questioned and everyone is dying in a gulag. Using tyrannical ideologies as political epithets makes the true evil of those ideologies trivialized. By misusing these terms, we are normalizing the ideals these people supported.

But that’s just my opinion. I’m trying hard to be civil, and I hope everyone else does too.


Considering you were complaining about my use of the word Fascist to describe a group that self-identifies as Fascist in the other thread, I would argue you are a prime example of misuse of the word, namely by criticising others who apply it appropriately.
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Postby Vadterland » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:15 pm

Cosmopolitan borovan wrote:
Albrenia wrote:Sadly, it doesn't mean much anymore. Way too overused.

Trump isn't a Fascist, he's just an asshole.

Yes he's a fascist. Look at how he is governing. He's manipulating the people and his speech.

But that's just manipulative, not fascist. That happens across every political ideology, not just Trump.
Last edited by Vadterland on Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Dogmeat » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:15 pm

Cosmopolitan borovan wrote:
Albrenia wrote:Sadly, it doesn't mean much anymore. Way too overused.

Trump isn't a Fascist, he's just an asshole.

Yes he's a fascist. Look at how he is governing. He's manipulating the people and his speech.

Which part of that is supposed to make him a Fascist. Be specific.
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Postby Right wing humour squad » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:15 pm

Cosmopolitan borovan wrote:
Albrenia wrote:Sadly, it doesn't mean much anymore. Way too overused.

Trump isn't a Fascist, he's just an asshole.

Yes he's a fascist. Look at how he is governing. He's manipulating the people and his speech.


Yeah no.
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Albrenia
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Postby Albrenia » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:16 pm

Dogmeat wrote:
Albrenia wrote:Sadly, it doesn't mean much anymore. Way too overused.

Trump isn't a Fascist, he's just an asshole.

You get the sense that he sort of wants to be Benito Mussolini, but can't quite pull it off.


Considering Mussolini was the fuck-up of the Axis powers, it makes it even funnier.

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Postby Cedoria » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:16 pm

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:
Albrenia wrote:Sadly, it doesn't mean much anymore. Way too overused.

Trump isn't a Fascist, he's just an asshole.

True. But this issue long predates trumps presidency or his campaign. Reductio ad Hitlerum as a term, predates both Trump and Godwin’s law, being coined in the 1950s

Didn't Godwin come out recently and say he was perfectly happy for people to use the term in relation to Trump, and that one shouldn't invoke Godwin's law.

I agree Trump isn't Hitler. At best he's a large-print low-IQ version of Franco. Franco for idiots.
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West Leas Oros 2
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Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:16 pm

Western Vale Confederacy wrote:Actual fascism (as in the original Italian definition of it) is virtually extinct, and nowadays it is used as nothing more than a buzzword to smear one's political opponents.

Of course, I’d argue that the misuse of the term would actually embolden actual fascists, because they could just say “you’re just using fascist as an insult”. So, even worse, actual fascists are being strengthened by this misuse.
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Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:18 pm

Cedoria wrote:
West Leas Oros 2 wrote:It’s probably a terrible idea to bring up, but I think it’s an important societal question that should be discussed civilly, given its relevance in both the past and the present.

We all know it. We’ve seen pictures of people with Hitler mustaches slapped on them, we all know Godwin’s law. We’ve used and abused such terms. Actual fascists, militant antifascists, and everyone in between has been affected by these words before. But in today’s age, fascist has arguably turned into a political epithet, used to describe everyone from Donald Trump to Barack Obama to Joseph Stalin. It’s been debated before, but does using fascist as an insult take away from the villainous acts committed by fascist regimes? Does it further polarize and divide us in a time already considered divisive? I say that it does. Fascism is not to be taken lightly, and to many it’s merely a word to describe your opponent, or an “edgy joke that you normies wouldn’t understand”. This casual use of the word makes fascism seem like a walk in the park, a simple way to make your opponent evil, or a “joke for shock value”. Similar concepts apply to red-baiting. Americans have often heard that “Democrats are communists, Republicans are Nazis”. Economic reforms are considered the first step towards a dictatorial communist regime where the party cannot be questioned and everyone is dying in a gulag. Using tyrannical ideologies as political epithets makes the true evil of those ideologies trivialized. By misusing these terms, we are normalizing the ideals these people supported.

But that’s just my opinion. I’m trying hard to be civil, and I hope everyone else does too.


Considering you were complaining about my use of the word Fascist to describe a group that self-identifies as Fascist in the other thread, I would argue you are a prime example of misuse of the word, namely by criticising others who apply it appropriately.

I never said I haven’t misused it. But that discussion did make me wonder what fascism truly means today.
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Postby Bholvakia » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:18 pm

Fascism is just a term the far left like to throw at anyone who doesn't agree with them. This essentially means from conservatives to libertarians and classical liberals in their eyes are all fascists. Though by the original definition fascism once employed its pretty much dead. Fascism now has the same meaning as sexism in that is overused in situations which it has no connection and as such barely means anything anymore.
Last edited by Bholvakia on Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Mardla » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:19 pm

It's an old issue. OLD. Adorno was doing this stupid shit in The Authortarian Personality, funding by the American Jewish Committee. Any interested in all that should read After Liberalism, by Paul Gottfried
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Postby Cedoria » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:20 pm

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:
Cedoria wrote:
Considering you were complaining about my use of the word Fascist to describe a group that self-identifies as Fascist in the other thread, I would argue you are a prime example of misuse of the word, namely by criticising others who apply it appropriately.

I never said I haven’t misused it. But that discussion did make me wonder what fascism truly means today.


It's pretty easy to define. And a person who calls themself a Fascist should absolutely do so

The only thing overused about that conversation was the amount of times people told me that I shouldn't use the term Fascist to describe people who use the term to describe themselves. Sometimes, the jackboot fits.
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Cosmopolitan borovan
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Postby Cosmopolitan borovan » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:20 pm

Vadterland wrote:
Cosmopolitan borovan wrote:Yes he's a fascist. Look at how he is governing. He's manipulating the people and his speech.

But that's just manipulative, not fascist. That happens across every political ideology, not just Trump.

Perhaps I may have confused the definition.
Dogmeat wrote:
Cosmopolitan borovan wrote:Yes he's a fascist. Look at how he is governing. He's manipulating the people and his speech.

Which part of that is supposed to make him a Fascist. Be specific.

He is using his persona as a celebrity and a non-politician to manipulate uneducated voters in rural areas and the average voter that does not vote often. It is like propaganda used so he can sway for his own agenda to go deport illegal immigrants.

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Mexico socialista
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Postby Mexico socialista » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:20 pm

The actual use of "fascism" Is just something that the people just use and dont even know what that mean or its origin they just use it because famous people used ir against political rivals because it sound like a good insult and then everyone uses it..... and no much people understand what fascism was in reality

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Postby Ethel mermania » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:20 pm

Dogmeat wrote:
Albrenia wrote:Sadly, it doesn't mean much anymore. Way too overused.

Trump isn't a Fascist, he's just an asshole.

You get the sense that he sort of wants to be Benito Mussolini, but can't quite pull it off.

He does not dress nearly as well as Benito.

And no he is not a fascist. He is a New York City real estate developer. There is a hell of a difference.

Calling him a fascist just disqualifies the person saying it from being qualified to have a real political debate.
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Postby Cedoria » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:21 pm

Mardla wrote:It's an old issue. OLD. Adorno was doing this stupid shit in The Authortarian Personality, funding by the American Jewish Committee. Any interested in all that should read After Liberalism, by Paul Gottfried


Heck even Orwell was whinging about Fascism being the most overused word in political lexicon in the late 40s. Using the word loosely is not at all a new thing.
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Taboooo
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Postby Taboooo » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:21 pm

We tend to utilise the word Fascist or Fascism when we really mean Authoritarian. It demonstrates a recognition of a tendency of those in authority to make decisions that are said to be on our behalf or for our own good, but are unpopular. Whether the policies are beneficial to us the people depends on whether we believe that the people in authority are the right ones.

True Fascist states in the real world tend to be in the developing world, whilst in NS they tend to be those owned by people who wish they had power and influence in the real world.

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