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What was the point of "males make the first move" anyway?

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LimaUniformNovemberAlpha
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What was the point of "males make the first move" anyway?

Postby LimaUniformNovemberAlpha » Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:35 pm

I feel conflicted about this social norm. Right now, society is at a point of considerable concern regarding men who "make the first move" to a point bordering on harassment. There's a certain damned if you do, damned if you don't for how bold to be, at each stage of the game, depending upon when or where or with whom. This is generally thought to be due to differences in pickiness and/or horniness, which is why in alleged "reverse" cases of sexual harassment/assault, people find it hard to believe that a guy genuinely rejected a girl, even for practical reasons like fear of child support bills or STDs, let alone sentimental ones like obsessing over some other girl.

Needless to say, inverting the norm would go a long way to actually TESTING these theories of males and females. So for what purpose is it still the way it is?

Firstly, it seems to be emphasized a lot more to girls than to guys. I actually heard the opposite growing up, and was a little surprised at what the actual norm was. Could it have been done to delay teen sex as long as possible?

Secondly, one argument I've seen for it elsewhere is that girls will get flirted with so often they'll be used to it no matter what, while flirting from girls will mostly be directed at a few guys, with many left out of it altogether. This one stands out to me. We know that among many species, including some of our evolutionary cousins the great apes, the females wait their turn to have sex with the alpha male instead of just settling for an ordinary male they can have immediately. Even those who claim to doubt and/or object to that make cheap shots more often about a male's supposed virginity than that of a female, as though inability to get laid were the only reason for it if male, or as though female virginity were prized and seen as a sign of virtue. Might this social norm have been designed to prevent the same thing from happening among us as among other species? If it did happen, would it be irreversible?
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Postby Internationalist Bastard » Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:36 pm

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Bakery Hill
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Postby Bakery Hill » Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:41 pm

You make the first move when you know it'll work. It's as simple as that.
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Myrensis
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Postby Myrensis » Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:36 pm

It's hard to erase millennia of cultural conditioning

And males were supposed to make the first move because women were supposed to be demure and chaste and mostly let their male relatives make those decisions for them anyway. Only some kind of wanton whore would express overt interest in a man and approach him on her own initiative.

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Trollzyn the Infinite
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Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:39 pm

I tried to make the first move once.

I fucked it up royally, on Valentine's Day no less.
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New haven america
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Postby New haven america » Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:43 pm

Because society and cultural norms can be fucking stupid.
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Postby Western Vale Confederacy » Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:45 pm

Nowadays, it's hard as f*ck for a man to be, well, a man.

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Postby Proletarian Republic of Americanada » Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:48 pm

I think it's creepy to make a move on people you've only just met and don't know. It must be annoying to be asked out all the time by random strangers. I think if you know the person well enough it's fine to ask them out whether you're a guy or a girl.
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Postby East Gondwana » Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:49 pm

If a woman makes the first move then she's exercising independent decision making and exerting free will, we can't have that (think about how "willful" used to be a insulting attribute for a woman).

Plus the social attitude that men should control women so if a man is "chosen" by a woman, rather than a man "choosing" a woman, she is making decisions for him.

Plus, women don't have urges to be with men! They chaste and innocent creatures that must be plucked from the shelf by a mature, sensible man! /s

Obviously a lot of these attitudes either no longer exist in many societies or are greatly diluted but the effects of them in social interactions still exist.
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Postby Bombadil » Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:51 pm

Western Vale Confederacy wrote:Nowadays, it's hard as f*ck for a man to be, well, a man.


It really isn't.
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Saiwania
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Postby Saiwania » Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:52 pm

It is because, that is how God supposedly intends it.
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Postby Ethel mermania » Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:53 pm

Honestly i like aggressive women, i find it a turn on.

That said, as long as when the girl says no, you have to respect it. Other than that, most people find confidence is sexy, you want a woman you have to put it out there that you deserve her, yes you will get rejected, but so what.
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New haven america
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Postby New haven america » Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:53 pm

East Gondwana wrote:If a woman makes the first move then she's exercising independent decision making and exerting free will, we can't have that (think about how "willful" used to be a insulting attribute for a woman).

Plus the social attitude that men should control women so if a man is "chosen" by a woman, rather than a man "choosing" a woman, she is making decisions for him.

Plus, women don't have urges to be with men! They chaste and innocent creatures that must be plucked from the shelf by a mature, sensible man! /s

Obviously a lot of these attitudes either no longer exist in many societies or are greatly diluted but the effects of them in social interactions still exist.

Well, women are responsible for a lot of this as well.

They're either scared of rejection and want the guy to make the first move so they don't have to deal with that fear (Even though guy's are usually just as scared or anxious as they are), or they want to give themselves an out incase things don't go as planned, so instead of actually making moves they drop hints as an invitation for someone they like to ask them out, even though hints are fucking stupid and rarely work.

So yeah, both sides are to blame for this for unique and equally problematic reasons.
Last edited by New haven america on Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:57 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Bakery Hill
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Postby Bakery Hill » Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:53 pm

Western Vale Confederacy wrote:Nowadays, it's hard as f*ck for a man to be, well, a man.

You sort of need to know what you're doing. If it's any consolation it'd be just as hard a few decades ago.
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Bombadil
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Postby Bombadil » Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:55 pm

Bakery Hill wrote:
Western Vale Confederacy wrote:Nowadays, it's hard as f*ck for a man to be, well, a man.

You sort of need to know what you're doing. If it's any consolation it'd be just as hard a few decades ago.


You sort of just need to not be a dick. Just seems some people find that really hard to do.
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New haven america
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Postby New haven america » Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:58 pm

Bombadil wrote:
Bakery Hill wrote:You sort of need to know what you're doing. If it's any consolation it'd be just as hard a few decades ago.


You sort of just need to not be a dick. Just seems some people find that really hard to do.

The real question we should be asking is why do people feel the need to act like dicks? Especially in a time where no one cares.
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Bakery Hill
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Postby Bakery Hill » Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:59 pm

Bombadil wrote:
Bakery Hill wrote:You sort of need to know what you're doing. If it's any consolation it'd be just as hard a few decades ago.


You sort of just need to not be a dick. Just seems some people find that really hard to do.

I think it's more than that. I think young men are confused about what masculinity is now, and we get all this weirdness because of that.
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Bakery Hill
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Postby Bakery Hill » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:00 pm

New haven america wrote:
Bombadil wrote:
You sort of just need to not be a dick. Just seems some people find that really hard to do.

The real question we should be asking is why do people feel the need to act like dicks? Especially in a time where no one cares.

I don't understand the question and the premise.
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Bakery Hill
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Postby Bakery Hill » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:01 pm

New haven america wrote:
East Gondwana wrote:If a woman makes the first move then she's exercising independent decision making and exerting free will, we can't have that (think about how "willful" used to be a insulting attribute for a woman).

Plus the social attitude that men should control women so if a man is "chosen" by a woman, rather than a man "choosing" a woman, she is making decisions for him.

Plus, women don't have urges to be with men! They chaste and innocent creatures that must be plucked from the shelf by a mature, sensible man! /s

Obviously a lot of these attitudes either no longer exist in many societies or are greatly diluted but the effects of them in social interactions still exist.

Well, women are responsible for a lot of this as well.

They're either scared of rejection and want the guy to make the first move so they don't have to deal with that fear (Even though guy's are usually just as scared or anxious as they are), or they want to give themselves an out incase things don't go as planned, so instead of actually making moves they drop hints as an invitation for someone they like to ask them out, even though hints are fucking stupid and rarely work.

So yeah, both sides are to blame for this for unique and equally problematic reasons.

If you can read social cues you can usually tell. If you're not good at that, and a lot of guys are (at least at first) then I'm sorry for u son.
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New haven america
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Postby New haven america » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:04 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:1.That said, as long as when the girl says no, you have to respect it. 2.Other than that, most people find confidence is sexy, you want a woman you have to put it out there that you deserve her, 3. yes you will get rejected, but so what.

1. Totally agree. I have no idea why some people find it such a hard rule to follow.
2. There are many types of confidence. Specify.
3. You can only get rejected so many times before it stops being worth it.
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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:08 pm

New haven america wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:1.That said, as long as when the girl says no, you have to respect it. 2.Other than that, most people find confidence is sexy, you want a woman you have to put it out there that you deserve her, 3. yes you will get rejected, but so what.

1. Totally agree. I have no idea why some people find it such a hard rule to follow.
2. There are many types of confidence. Specify.
3. You can only get rejected so many times before it stops being worth it.



3. I had a friend of mine who use to hit on women for strictly a one night stand with the basic line of your cute lets fuck, 9 out of 10 times he got slapped, the 10th time he got laid.

2. Confidence in who you are, and what you want.
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Marginal Territory
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Postby Marginal Territory » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:09 pm

It's gonna be better for everybody if we stop making the first move.
Last edited by Marginal Territory on Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Greed and Death
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Postby Greed and Death » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:10 pm

Ive dated women who've made the first move. It is just a matter of reading your cultural responses. Also many times women make the first move but make you think you have made the first move. For instance most times I have picked up women in public spaces (the Train, the library, Waitress at a restaurant, and the like). Thats for the better as randomly walking up to women is a great way to get maced.

Men have a habit of assuming forward women are whores, and women are taught men need to be assertive.
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Postby Sovaal » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:10 pm

To fuel NSG posts.

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Postby Uxupox » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:23 pm

just take two shots of rum and be done with it.
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