Conservation VS Herclivation

[Vectrova]

Hi xero. Still not acknowledging contradicting posts and just posting whatever you feel like no matter how silly of a source it is? Yes? Great.

Plants have no consciousness and can't feel pain. There's no identication whatsoever that they have any desires, just environments they thrive in and ones that they don't. We are humans ascribe 'desire' and 'want' to them in the same way we'd say a dog wants something, but the truth is it's a mental fiction. People have done studies on this xero. And all you can cite is opinion pieces and a mockumentary? Really? Really?

Good grief.

[Dogmeat]

Hi xero. Still not acknowledging contradicting posts and just posting whatever you feel like no matter how silly of a source it is? Yes? Great.

Plants have no consciousness and can't feel pain. There's no identication whatsoever that they have any desires, just environments they thrive in and ones that they don't. We are humans ascribe 'desire' and 'want' to them in the same way we'd say a dog wants something, but the truth is it's a mental fiction. People have done studies on this xero. And all you can cite is opinion pieces and a mockumentary? Really? Really?

Good grief.

I don't know man. Sometimes I feel like I'm just an NPC.

[Publica]

Hi xero. Still not acknowledging contradicting posts and just posting whatever you feel like no matter how silly of a source it is? Yes? Great.

Plants have no consciousness and can't feel pain. There's no identication whatsoever that they have any desires, just environments they thrive in and ones that they don't. We are humans ascribe 'desire' and 'want' to them in the same way we'd say a dog wants something, but the truth is it's a mental fiction. People have done studies on this xero. And all you can cite is opinion pieces and a mockumentary? Really? Really?

Good grief.

Dogs have a better case though. They are sentient, and have emotions.

[Vectrova]

Hi xero. Still not acknowledging contradicting posts and just posting whatever you feel like no matter how silly of a source it is? Yes? Great.

Plants have no consciousness and can't feel pain. There's no identication whatsoever that they have any desires, just environments they thrive in and ones that they don't. We are humans ascribe 'desire' and 'want' to them in the same way we'd say a dog wants something, but the truth is it's a mental fiction. People have done studies on this xero. And all you can cite is opinion pieces and a mockumentary? Really? Really?

Good grief.

I don't know man. Sometimes I feel like I'm just an NPC.

You're not an npc, you're a follower and set to Essential. it's different.

Hi xero. Still not acknowledging contradicting posts and just posting whatever you feel like no matter how silly of a source it is? Yes? Great.

Plants have no consciousness and can't feel pain. There's no identication whatsoever that they have any desires, just environments they thrive in and ones that they don't. We are humans ascribe 'desire' and 'want' to them in the same way we'd say a dog wants something, but the truth is it's a mental fiction. People have done studies on this xero. And all you can cite is opinion pieces and a mockumentary? Really? Really?

Good grief.

Dogs have a better case though. They are sentient, and have emotions.

They still can't be proven to have desires beyond instincts and behaviors taught to them. That handily disqualifies them. Ascribing reason desire and want to them doesn't mean they have it, no matter how much we wish it so.

[Publica]

I don't know man. Sometimes I feel like I'm just an NPC.

You're not an npc, you're a follower and set to Essential. it's different.

Dogs have a better case though. They are sentient, and have emotions.

They still can't be proven to have desires beyond instincts and behaviors taught to them. That handily disqualifies them. Ascribing reason desire and want to them doesn't mean they have it, no matter how much we wish it so.

I would hardly describe them as having reason, but wants? Sure. Why else would they scratch at doors to be let out if they didn't want to do it?

[Vectrova]

You're not an npc, you're a follower and set to Essential. it's different.



They still can't be proven to have desires beyond instincts and behaviors taught to them. That handily disqualifies them. Ascribing reason desire and want to them doesn't mean they have it, no matter how much we wish it so.

I would hardly describe them as having reason, but wants? Sure. Why else would they scratch at doors to be let out if they didn't want to do it?

Let me introduce you to a thing called Operant Conditioning.

They scratch at the door because that's what's taught to them for going in. They go in because of instinctual desire to be closer to you. There's no cognizant 'want' or 'desire' there any more than exists in a plant. It's a pure mental fiction humans ascribe to packbond better.

[Publica]

I would hardly describe them as having reason, but wants? Sure. Why else would they scratch at doors to be let out if they didn't want to do it?

Let me introduce you to a thing called Operant Conditioning.

They scratch at the door because that's what's taught to them for going in. They go in because of instinctual desire to be closer to you. There's no cognizant 'want' or 'desire' there any more than exists in a plant. It's a pure mental fiction humans ascribe to packbond better.

I'm aware of Pavlov and Skinner. But who teaches them to scratch to go in? Humans certainly don't. And you just said they desire to be closer to you. That's them wanting something.

[Vectrova]

Let me introduce you to a thing called Operant Conditioning.

They scratch at the door because that's what's taught to them for going in. They go in because of instinctual desire to be closer to you. There's no cognizant 'want' or 'desire' there any more than exists in a plant. It's a pure mental fiction humans ascribe to packbond better.

I'm aware of Pavlov and Skinner. But who teaches them to scratch to go in? Humans certainly don't. And you just said they desire to be closer to you. That's them wanting something.

Humans absolutely do teach behavior, unconsciously and consciously.. A newborn puppy doesn't scratch a door. not all dogs scratch the door either. It's learned.

I said that because, as I also said, it's a mental fiction we ascribe. our language is full of these and it's inconvenient to try to avoid using them. The dog 'desires' to be close to you purely by its pack nature and genetics, the same way a plant 'desires' sunlight and adequate rainfall and grows to achieve this. Neither is a cognizant process, neither is a true "want".

A better counterargument would be dolphins, who engage in all manner of behaviors for no apparent reason beyond desire, fun, and pleasure. But dolphins are incredibly similar to humans, so that's also out the window.

[Salandriagado]

Anybody else watching American Vandal on Netflix? Here's a relevant snippet from season 2 episode 5...

Hot Janitor: These are lichens.
Peter: What's a lichen?
HJ: Well, it's kind of like an epiphyte. It grows on some of the Doug firs and the other trees around here, but it blows out in some of the high winds during storms, so I try to collect it and put it back, you know.
Peter: You put it back in the tree?
HJ: Yeah, I mean, that's where it wants to be.

Plants have preferences... just like people do.

It's apparently a mockumentary.

You expect us to really, seriously accept a few lines in a mockumentary as evidence for your theory, over actual scientific evidence?

And the previous blog excerpt does not prove that plants "want" anything. They lack the capacity. It has been said, and supported by sources.

From qualified scientists. Not mockumentary characters.

Also, lichen aren't (solely) plants.

[Publica]

I'm aware of Pavlov and Skinner. But who teaches them to scratch to go in? Humans certainly don't. And you just said they desire to be closer to you. That's them wanting something.

Humans absolutely do teach behavior, unconsciously and consciously.. A newborn puppy doesn't scratch a door. not all dogs scratch the door either. It's learned.

I said that because, as I also said, it's a mental fiction we ascribe. our language is full of these and it's inconvenient to try to avoid using them. The dog 'desires' to be close to you purely by its pack nature and genetics, the same way a plant 'desires' sunlight and adequate rainfall and grows to achieve this. Neither is a cognizant process, neither is a true "want".

A better counterargument would be dolphins, who engage in all manner of behaviors for no apparent reason beyond desire, fun, and pleasure. But dolphins are incredibly similar to humans, so that's also out the window.

Why do dogs, say, retrieve thrown sticks then? Also, how is being too similar to humans a problem for this argument?

[Neutraligon]

Humans absolutely do teach behavior, unconsciously and consciously.. A newborn puppy doesn't scratch a door. not all dogs scratch the door either. It's learned.

I said that because, as I also said, it's a mental fiction we ascribe. our language is full of these and it's inconvenient to try to avoid using them. The dog 'desires' to be close to you purely by its pack nature and genetics, the same way a plant 'desires' sunlight and adequate rainfall and grows to achieve this. Neither is a cognizant process, neither is a true "want".

A better counterargument would be dolphins, who engage in all manner of behaviors for no apparent reason beyond desire, fun, and pleasure. But dolphins are incredibly similar to humans, so that's also out the window.

Why do dogs, say, retrieve thrown sticks then? Also, how is being too similar to humans a problem for this argument?

That and, isn't desire simply a trait we humans have due to our programming, no different from say a dog's desire?

[Dogmeat]

Why do dogs, say, retrieve thrown sticks then? Also, how is being too similar to humans a problem for this argument?

That and, isn't desire simply a trait we humans have due to our programming, no different from say a dog's desire?

Nearly. Dogs don't feel guilt for their desires.

One of the many ways we are a superior life form.