Entertainment and #MeToo

[Bombadil]

[You know perfectly well what I meant.

Do I, I don't know anything about you so I can only read the words you write, and you wrote.. 'Is it acceptable for the digital mob to dictate when a man can resume his art and livelihood?'.

So I responded to that.

I reiterate; what tangible good has MeToo done? What criminals have been brought down that otherwise wouldn't have been? Is it acceptable to continue to harangue someone that broke no laws, apologized for his inappropriate behavior, and now just wants to get back to work?

Here's the thing, seems everyone knew about Harvey Weinstein..

Rumors of Harvey Weinstein's "casting couch" practices circulated in Hollywood for years, and entertainment figures at times alluded to them.[5] As early as 1998, Gwyneth Paltrow said on Late Show with David Letterman that Weinstein "will coerce you to do a thing or two".[5] In 2005, Courtney Love advised young actresses in an interview, "If Harvey Weinstein invites you to a private party in the Four Seasons, don't go."[6] In 2010, an article titled "Harvey's Girls"[7] for Pajiba alluded to Weinstein's "casting couch" reputation: "Every few years, Harvey picks a new girl as his pet".[5] In 2012, a character on the TV series 30 Rock said: "I'm not afraid of anyone in show business, I turned down intercourse with Harvey Weinstein on no less than three occasions, out of five."[5] While announcing the 2013 nominees for the Best Supporting Acress Academy Award, Seth MacFarlane joked: "Congratulations, you five ladies no longer have to pretend to be attracted to Harvey Weinstein."[5] After the allegations were published, director Quentin Tarantino said that he had known about Weinstein harassing actresses for decades, and had confronted him about it.[8] Ivana Lowell wrote in her book Why Not Say What Happened?, published in 2010, about misbehavior by Weinstein when she worked for the books division of Miramax. The incidents described were in her office when she was alone with Harvey Weinstein, and in her home when a female friend of hers was present. She wrote that she "knew about Harvey's reputation as a womanizer; tales of his trying to seduce every young actress in town were infamous."

Link

Everyone knew but he was influential so no one did anything, no one stood up, no one voiced out or if they did it was by allusion only, and so he was able to carry on and more and more people were affected.

Being sexually harassed is shaming to the person being harassed. It's not easy to talk about it. It's also not easy when you think you're alone and perceive that this behaviour is just part of the business. So to allow for people to feel they can speak out, and also for people to think this behaviour shouldn't be tolerated is a 'tangible good'. And it's also not easy when the response can be 'did you lead them on?', 'how were you dressed', or the stock talking heads responses per the OP, or the treatment of Anita Hill.. or Monica Lewinsky.. or god knows who else.

No criminals brought down?

Criminal investigations into complaints from at least six women are ongoing in Los Angeles, New York City, and London. On May 25, 2018, Weinstein was arrested in New York, charged with rape and other offenses, and released on bail.[1]

Well let's see.

As for Louis CK, he thought it was fine to invite people to his hotel room and then masturbate in front of them.. is it the most heinous thing in the world.. no? But for fuck's sake..

I mean to take it worse this thing of not speaking out against celebrity leads to Jimmy Saville being able to abuse hundreds of kids for years and nothing happens.

Yet for me it's as much about the ordinary everyday low level inappropriate behaviour.

[Hirota]

[You know perfectly well what I meant.

Do I, I don't know anything about you so I can only read the words you write, and you wrote.. 'Is it acceptable for the digital mob to dictate when a man can resume his art and livelihood?'.

So I responded to that.

I reiterate; what tangible good has MeToo done? What criminals have been brought down that otherwise wouldn't have been? Is it acceptable to continue to harangue someone that broke no laws, apologized for his inappropriate behavior, and now just wants to get back to work?

Here's the thing, seems everyone knew about Harvey Weinstein..

Rumors of Harvey Weinstein's "casting couch" practices circulated in Hollywood for years, and entertainment figures at times alluded to them.[5] As early as 1998, Gwyneth Paltrow said on Late Show with David Letterman that Weinstein "will coerce you to do a thing or two".[5] In 2005, Courtney Love advised young actresses in an interview, "If Harvey Weinstein invites you to a private party in the Four Seasons, don't go."[6] In 2010, an article titled "Harvey's Girls"[7] for Pajiba alluded to Weinstein's "casting couch" reputation: "Every few years, Harvey picks a new girl as his pet".[5] In 2012, a character on the TV series 30 Rock said: "I'm not afraid of anyone in show business, I turned down intercourse with Harvey Weinstein on no less than three occasions, out of five."[5] While announcing the 2013 nominees for the Best Supporting Acress Academy Award, Seth MacFarlane joked: "Congratulations, you five ladies no longer have to pretend to be attracted to Harvey Weinstein."[5] After the allegations were published, director Quentin Tarantino said that he had known about Weinstein harassing actresses for decades, and had confronted him about it.[8] Ivana Lowell wrote in her book Why Not Say What Happened?, published in 2010, about misbehavior by Weinstein when she worked for the books division of Miramax. The incidents described were in her office when she was alone with Harvey Weinstein, and in her home when a female friend of hers was present. She wrote that she "knew about Harvey's reputation as a womanizer; tales of his trying to seduce every young actress in town were infamous."

Link

Everyone knew but he was influential so no one did anything, no one stood up, no one voiced out or if they did it was by allusion only, and so he was able to carry on and more and more people were affected.

Being sexually harassed is shaming to the person being harassed. It's not easy to talk about it. It's also not easy when you think you're alone and perceive that this behaviour is just part of the business. So to allow for people to feel they can speak out, and also for people to think this behaviour shouldn't be tolerated is a 'tangible good'.

No criminals brought down?

Criminal investigations into complaints from at least six women are ongoing in Los Angeles, New York City, and London. On May 25, 2018, Weinstein was arrested in New York, charged with rape and other offenses, and released on bail.[1]

Well let's see.

As for Louis CK, he thought it was fine to invite people to his hotel room and then masturbate in front of them.. is it the most heinous thing in the world.. no? But for fuck's sake..

I mean to take it worse this thing of not speaking out against celebrity leads to Jimmy Saville being able to abuse hundreds of kids for years and nothing happens.

Yet for me it's as much about the ordinary everyday low level inappropriate behaviour.

So the answer is no.

For all your frantic scrambling, you fail to demonstrate a single conviction. No criminals have been convicted, no one has had their dayincourt and found guilty.

[Bombadil]

Do I, I don't know anything about you so I can only read the words you write, and you wrote.. 'Is it acceptable for the digital mob to dictate when a man can resume his art and livelihood?'.

So I responded to that.



Here's the thing, seems everyone knew about Harvey Weinstein..

Rumors of Harvey Weinstein's "casting couch" practices circulated in Hollywood for years, and entertainment figures at times alluded to them.[5] As early as 1998, Gwyneth Paltrow said on Late Show with David Letterman that Weinstein "will coerce you to do a thing or two".[5] In 2005, Courtney Love advised young actresses in an interview, "If Harvey Weinstein invites you to a private party in the Four Seasons, don't go."[6] In 2010, an article titled "Harvey's Girls"[7] for Pajiba alluded to Weinstein's "casting couch" reputation: "Every few years, Harvey picks a new girl as his pet".[5] In 2012, a character on the TV series 30 Rock said: "I'm not afraid of anyone in show business, I turned down intercourse with Harvey Weinstein on no less than three occasions, out of five."[5] While announcing the 2013 nominees for the Best Supporting Acress Academy Award, Seth MacFarlane joked: "Congratulations, you five ladies no longer have to pretend to be attracted to Harvey Weinstein."[5] After the allegations were published, director Quentin Tarantino said that he had known about Weinstein harassing actresses for decades, and had confronted him about it.[8] Ivana Lowell wrote in her book Why Not Say What Happened?, published in 2010, about misbehavior by Weinstein when she worked for the books division of Miramax. The incidents described were in her office when she was alone with Harvey Weinstein, and in her home when a female friend of hers was present. She wrote that she "knew about Harvey's reputation as a womanizer; tales of his trying to seduce every young actress in town were infamous."

Link

Everyone knew but he was influential so no one did anything, no one stood up, no one voiced out or if they did it was by allusion only, and so he was able to carry on and more and more people were affected.

Being sexually harassed is shaming to the person being harassed. It's not easy to talk about it. It's also not easy when you think you're alone and perceive that this behaviour is just part of the business. So to allow for people to feel they can speak out, and also for people to think this behaviour shouldn't be tolerated is a 'tangible good'.

No criminals brought down?

Criminal investigations into complaints from at least six women are ongoing in Los Angeles, New York City, and London. On May 25, 2018, Weinstein was arrested in New York, charged with rape and other offenses, and released on bail.[1]

Well let's see.

As for Louis CK, he thought it was fine to invite people to his hotel room and then masturbate in front of them.. is it the most heinous thing in the world.. no? But for fuck's sake..

I mean to take it worse this thing of not speaking out against celebrity leads to Jimmy Saville being able to abuse hundreds of kids for years and nothing happens.

Yet for me it's as much about the ordinary everyday low level inappropriate behaviour.

So the answer is no.

For all your frantic scrambling, you fail to demonstrate a single conviction. No criminals have been convicted, no one has had their dayincourt and found guilty.

Oh god.. my 'frantic scrambling..'

Harvey Weinstein is about the first breaker in #metoo.. the law is slow.. he's been charged and is on bail at the moment.. give it time at least.

[Hirota]

So the answer is no.

For all your frantic scrambling, you fail to demonstrate a single conviction. No criminals have been convicted, no one has had their dayincourt and found guilty.

Oh god.. my 'frantic scrambling..'

Harvey Weinstein is about the first breaker in #metoo.. the law is slow.. he's been charged and is on bail at the moment.. give it time at least.

Wait and see is a better position to take. You should have opened with that instead of metaphourically patting #metoo on the back and sticking a banner on an aircraft carrier claiming "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED"

[Caracasus]

So the answer is no.

For all your frantic scrambling, you fail to demonstrate a single conviction. No criminals have been convicted, no one has had their dayincourt and found guilty.

Oh god.. my 'frantic scrambling..'

Harvey Weinstein is about the first breaker in #metoo.. the law is slow.. he's been charged and is on bail at the moment.. give it time at least.

I'd add to that that #metoo is a grassroots movement designed (in as far as we can really qualify the goals of such a movement) to raise awareness of sexual harassment and the normalization of it in our culture.

Given that it is not (for example) a police or govt. led initiative to prosecute more sex offenses, judging it by amount of people convicted seems rather silly.

[Hirota]

Oh god.. my 'frantic scrambling..'

Harvey Weinstein is about the first breaker in #metoo.. the law is slow.. he's been charged and is on bail at the moment.. give it time at least.

I'd add to that that #metoo is a grassroots movement designed (in as far as we can really qualify the goals of such a movement) to raise awareness of sexual harassment and the normalization of it in our culture.

Given that it is not (for example) a police or govt. led initiative to prosecute more sex offenses, judging it by amount of people convicted seems rather silly.

It was asked what "tangible good has MeToo done? What criminals have been brought down that otherwise wouldn't have been?" And the answer was given.

Your points are decent and admirable, but intangible.

But given the public outcry and the widespread condemnation Inthe court of public opinion, I'd argue that "the normalization of it in our culture" is demonstrably untrue.

[Bombadil]

Oh god.. my 'frantic scrambling..'

Harvey Weinstein is about the first breaker in #metoo.. the law is slow.. he's been charged and is on bail at the moment.. give it time at least.

Wait and see is a better position to take. You should have opened with that instead of metaphourically patting #metoo on the back and sticking a banner on an aircraft carrier claiming "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED"

This is what I said..

No criminals brought down?

Criminal investigations into complaints from at least six women are ongoing in Los Angeles, New York City, and London. On May 25, 2018, Weinstein was arrested in New York, charged with rape and other offenses, and released on bail.[1]

Well let's see.

So 'wait and see' is exactly the position I took.

I'd add to that that #metoo is a grassroots movement designed (in as far as we can really qualify the goals of such a movement) to raise awareness of sexual harassment and the normalization of it in our culture.

Given that it is not (for example) a police or govt. led initiative to prosecute more sex offenses, judging it by amount of people convicted seems rather silly.

Well quite, hence I've iterated that the more personal voicing is the change I've seen.

[USS Monitor]

But given the public outcry and the widespread condemnation Inthe court of public opinion, I'd argue that "the normalization of it in our culture" is demonstrably untrue.

Not really. People can be quite hypocritical and have a lot of double-standards, so some people get dragged through the mud while others are given a pass.

[Caracasus]

I'd add to that that #metoo is a grassroots movement designed (in as far as we can really qualify the goals of such a movement) to raise awareness of sexual harassment and the normalization of it in our culture.

Given that it is not (for example) a police or govt. led initiative to prosecute more sex offenses, judging it by amount of people convicted seems rather silly.

It was asked what "tangible good has MeToo done? What criminals have been brought down that otherwise wouldn't have been?" And the answer was given.

Your points are decent and admirable, but intangible.

But given the public outcry and the widespread condemnation Inthe court of public opinion, I'd argue that "the normalization of it in our culture" is demonstrably untrue.

Hmmm.... So what tangiable evidence is there to support the idea that "normalization in our culture" is demonstrably untrue then, exactly?

As for further tangiable evidence - I really don't know myself, I've not seen enough actual evidence to suggest that it's had an effect, and haven't really made my mind up. However, I'd certainly be surprised if people aren't studying this. I'd look for things like case studies of workplace sexual harrassment policies before and after, content analysis of media now compared to a couple of years ago and probably some long term studies comparing the effects on the entertainment industry v.s. other industries. As I said, I'm sure such things are being written or have been written - it'd be a matter of finding them.

[Hirota]

But given the public outcry and the widespread condemnation Inthe court of public opinion, I'd argue that "the normalization of it in our culture" is demonstrably untrue.

Not really. People can be quite hypocritical and have a lot of double-standards, so some people get dragged through the mud while others are given a pass.

Quite. I don't recall seeing much outcry 10 years ago when #metoo actually started.

Took a few celebrities for people to superficially care that other celebrities were allegedly doing naughty things with or to other celebrities

[Caracasus]

Not really. People can be quite hypocritical and have a lot of double-standards, so some people get dragged through the mud while others are given a pass.

Quite. I don't recall seeing much outcry 10 years ago when #metoo actually started.

Took a few celebrities for people to superficially care that other celebrities were allegedly doing naughty things with or to other celebrities

You also have the #timesup movement that sought to raise awareness of sexual abuse in less glamorous (read where everyone else works) industries. That... kind of sank. Regardless, I think that's more a criticism of our media and celebrity obsessed culture than it is of the #metoo movement where the vast majority of tweets were from normal people.

[Hirota]

Hmmm.... So what tangiable evidence is there to support the idea that "normalization in our culture" is demonstrably untrue then, exactly?

I could probably measure the percentage of percentage of total posts on "rape culture" and/or metoo in public discourse (social media, these forums, the press etc) that actually defend sexual harassment.

Based on this thread, the answer is zero. The vast majority of human beings do not believe that sexual harassment is good or acceptable, other than those who perpetrate it themselves (and even then, Like Monitor said - will defend or justify their own actions whilst critical of others - Asia Argento and Cristina Garcia being two alleged examples, Womens march attendee Harvey Weinstein being another alleged example).

The main differences are where people disagree on how to best do something about it, and how the ends justify the means and what other impacts that has on other fundamental rights - such as the right to a fair trial, rather than this trial by media we've seen so far.

As for further tangiable evidence - I really don't know myself, I've not seen enough actual evidence to suggest that it's had an effect, and haven't really made my mind up. However, I'd certainly be surprised if people aren't studying this. I'd look for things like case studies of workplace sexual harrassment policies before and after, content analysis of media now compared to a couple of years ago and probably some long term studies comparing the effects on the entertainment industry v.s. other industries. As I said, I'm sure such things are being written or have been written - it'd be a matter of finding them.

Maybe, and I'll been keen to see some genuine effort and methodology behind the studies, rather than the low quality "analysis" the soft sciences are notorious for.

[Hirota]

You also have the #timesup movement that sought to raise awareness of sexual abuse in less glamorous (read where everyone else works) industries. That... kind of sank. Regardless, I think that's more a criticism of our media and celebrity obsessed culture than it is of the #metoo movement where the vast majority of tweets were from normal people.

You mean that attempt of wealthy, white women to patronisingly tell working class women that they thought and cared about them now. Where were those glamorous legal-aid funds when people were (and still are) being exploited by their bosses? Why is it sexual harassment that gets celebrities to spare pennies from behind their sofas when economic exploitation is rampant? Why not legal aid for the millions of workers exploited in the usual, economic way by their bosses and/or later sacked without notice and with little to no reason?

For all their claims of being liberal, Hollywood types are decidedly self-centered and uncaring about the working classes unless they think it will benefit them. This is faux saviour feminism. Don't pretend otherwise.

[Caracasus]

You also have the #timesup movement that sought to raise awareness of sexual abuse in less glamorous (read where everyone else works) industries. That... kind of sank. Regardless, I think that's more a criticism of our media and celebrity obsessed culture than it is of the #metoo movement where the vast majority of tweets were from normal people.

You mean that attempt of wealthy, white women to patronisingly tell working class women that they thought and cared about them now. Where were those glamorous legal-aid funds when people were (and still are) being exploited by their bosses? Why is it sexual harassment that gets celebrities to spare pennies from behind their sofas when economic exploitation is rampant? Why not legal aid for the millions of workers exploited in the usual, economic way by their bosses or sacked without notice? What about a campaign to demand better childcare so that women don’t have to choose between earning as much as men and raising a family? What about a campaign for higher wages for working people?

For all their claims of being liberal, Hollywood types are decidedly self-centered and uncaring unless they think it will benefit them. This is faux saviour feminism. Don't pretend otherwise.

I don't think I ever pretended otherwise. The thing is though that sexual harassment and economic exploitation can be tackled together - and frankly probably need to be seen as part of an overall problem to make any real progress. The idea that #metoo has been co-opted by certain elements and presented to us as very much a Hollywood concern sort of holds water - the idea that the underlying movement to shine a light on workplace and other areas where sexual harassment go on can also be discarded because of an undue focus on one segment of our society carries less water. This is a problem with lazy reporting and a focus on celebrity culture over the intentions of a nebulous movement. Of course, it could also be that we're used to stories and scandals in the entertainment industry. We expect it, and it's easier to frame the narrative that way.

The fact remains that there are many, many people trapped in awful situations on zero hour contracts or so called "right to work" deals where they simply cannot speak up or they will lose their jobs. To a degree this also mirrors the situation in Hollywood where highly influential producers could decide the fate of potential actors and use that as leverage against individuals. Hollywood is like any other industry - it may be very rich and influential but that wealth and power - as in any industry - is very concentrated at the top. Ensuring better working conditions and rights for workers (unionization, collective bargaining etc) could go some way to ensuring better standards within the workplace and an environment where people feel they can come forward without losing their jobs.

[Hirota]

Wait and see is a better position to take. You should have opened with that instead of metaphourically patting #metoo on the back and sticking a banner on an aircraft carrier claiming "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED"

This is what I said..

No criminals brought down?

Criminal investigations into complaints from at least six women are ongoing in Los Angeles, New York City, and London. On May 25, 2018, Weinstein was arrested in New York, charged with rape and other offenses, and released on bail.[1]

Well let's see.

So 'wait and see' is exactly the position I took.

Ergo, the answer you provided to the original question is no.

Fair enough, apologies I didn't see the "well lets see" part - thats on me. Whats on you is trying to present that as tangible, when you admit it simply isn't.

[Southwestern Serica]

Chances that #metoo will end up like #blm or something. What about men though? they do (in extremely rare cases) get sexually harassed . And with mah boi trump going all in against that hashtag, it's about time for him to get roasted by neoliberals and 3rd wave womenists on twitter. And my god, the majority of America hates him. Mostly I'd find an account or two supporting him but most are just angry at him, comparing him to a"goo goo gaa gaa" 1yo toddler, telling him to resign, etc.

Besides, why do we even have to make this mainstream? Sexual harassment, has been, and will always be, a commonplace social issue for eternity. I even had a friend who had experienced this and wasn't even aware that this movement even existed. #metoo was just popularized due to the likes of that Harvey Weinstein and his dillema with Alyssa Milano. I thought the first feminists already had dealt with that? and what angers me most is that a lot of women even accuse innocent men of sexual harassment even if no harassment did take place. Maybe they're just taking that chance for you to be penalized so you'd be forced to compensate to that alleged victim. And that's what's crazy about the entirety of the feminist movement nowdays: i'd describe it as full of attention-seekers, women with lack of common sense, and women which had been connived by leftist ideas and have given a false perspective/thinking of equality/human rights/social justice nowadays. Keep dividing yourself, America, and you'll find yourself in an another civil war.

tl;dr: sexual harassment happens all the time, it usually depends on the woman if she would want to label it as sexual harassment or not, and deal with it: it's another movement that's bound to eventually fail anyway. and what are you third wavers fighting for!

[Bombadil]

This is what I said..



So 'wait and see' is exactly the position I took.

Ergo, the answer you provided to the original question is no.

Fair enough, apologies I didn't see the "well lets see" part - thats on me. Whats on you is trying to present that as tangible, when you admit it simply isn't.

The only thing on me is the dirt from the hole you dug for yourself. He's been arrested, charged and put on bail.. and I qualified with 'let's see', so my answer was entirely adequate especially given the overall context of the post beyond whether 'convictions' is a measure of results anyway.

But by the by.. let's not mountain a molehill here

tl;dr: sexual harassment happens all the time, it usually depends on the woman if she would want to label it as sexual harassment or not, and deal with it

Can't tell if Poe or not.

[Ethel mermania]

[You know perfectly well what I meant.

Do I, I don't know anything about you so I can only read the words you write, and you wrote.. 'Is it acceptable for the digital mob to dictate when a man can resume his art and livelihood?'.

So I responded to that.

I reiterate; what tangible good has MeToo done? What criminals have been brought down that otherwise wouldn't have been? Is it acceptable to continue to harangue someone that broke no laws, apologized for his inappropriate behavior, and now just wants to get back to work?

Here's the thing, seems everyone knew about Harvey Weinstein..

Rumors of Harvey Weinstein's "casting couch" practices circulated in Hollywood for years, and entertainment figures at times alluded to them.[5] As early as 1998, Gwyneth Paltrow said on Late Show with David Letterman that Weinstein "will coerce you to do a thing or two".[5] In 2005, Courtney Love advised young actresses in an interview, "If Harvey Weinstein invites you to a private party in the Four Seasons, don't go."[6] In 2010, an article titled "Harvey's Girls"[7] for Pajiba alluded to Weinstein's "casting couch" reputation: "Every few years, Harvey picks a new girl as his pet".[5] In 2012, a character on the TV series 30 Rock said: "I'm not afraid of anyone in show business, I turned down intercourse with Harvey Weinstein on no less than three occasions, out of five."[5] While announcing the 2013 nominees for the Best Supporting Acress Academy Award, Seth MacFarlane joked: "Congratulations, you five ladies no longer have to pretend to be attracted to Harvey Weinstein."[5] After the allegations were published, director Quentin Tarantino said that he had known about Weinstein harassing actresses for decades, and had confronted him about it.[8] Ivana Lowell wrote in her book Why Not Say What Happened?, published in 2010, about misbehavior by Weinstein when she worked for the books division of Miramax. The incidents described were in her office when she was alone with Harvey Weinstein, and in her home when a female friend of hers was present. She wrote that she "knew about Harvey's reputation as a womanizer; tales of his trying to seduce every young actress in town were infamous."

Link

Everyone knew but he was influential so no one did anything, no one stood up, no one voiced out or if they did it was by allusion only, and so he was able to carry on and more and more people were affected.

Being sexually harassed is shaming to the person being harassed. It's not easy to talk about it. It's also not easy when you think you're alone and perceive that this behaviour is just part of the business. So to allow for people to feel they can speak out, and also for people to think this behaviour shouldn't be tolerated is a 'tangible good'. And it's also not easy when the response can be 'did you lead them on?', 'how were you dressed', or the stock talking heads responses per the OP, or the treatment of Anita Hill.. or Monica Lewinsky.. or god knows who else.

No criminals brought down?

Criminal investigations into complaints from at least six women are ongoing in Los Angeles, New York City, and London. On May 25, 2018, Weinstein was arrested in New York, charged with rape and other offenses, and released on bail.[1]

Well let's see.

As for Louis CK, he thought it was fine to invite people to his hotel room and then masturbate in front of them.. is it the most heinous thing in the world.. no? But for fuck's sake..

I mean to take it worse this thing of not speaking out against celebrity leads to Jimmy Saville being able to abuse hundreds of kids for years and nothing happens.

Yet for me it's as much about the ordinary everyday low level inappropriate behaviour.

But does that give anyone the right to stop Louis ck from working?

[Bombadil]

Do I, I don't know anything about you so I can only read the words you write, and you wrote.. 'Is it acceptable for the digital mob to dictate when a man can resume his art and livelihood?'.

So I responded to that.



Here's the thing, seems everyone knew about Harvey Weinstein..

Rumors of Harvey Weinstein's "casting couch" practices circulated in Hollywood for years, and entertainment figures at times alluded to them.[5] As early as 1998, Gwyneth Paltrow said on Late Show with David Letterman that Weinstein "will coerce you to do a thing or two".[5] In 2005, Courtney Love advised young actresses in an interview, "If Harvey Weinstein invites you to a private party in the Four Seasons, don't go."[6] In 2010, an article titled "Harvey's Girls"[7] for Pajiba alluded to Weinstein's "casting couch" reputation: "Every few years, Harvey picks a new girl as his pet".[5] In 2012, a character on the TV series 30 Rock said: "I'm not afraid of anyone in show business, I turned down intercourse with Harvey Weinstein on no less than three occasions, out of five."[5] While announcing the 2013 nominees for the Best Supporting Acress Academy Award, Seth MacFarlane joked: "Congratulations, you five ladies no longer have to pretend to be attracted to Harvey Weinstein."[5] After the allegations were published, director Quentin Tarantino said that he had known about Weinstein harassing actresses for decades, and had confronted him about it.[8] Ivana Lowell wrote in her book Why Not Say What Happened?, published in 2010, about misbehavior by Weinstein when she worked for the books division of Miramax. The incidents described were in her office when she was alone with Harvey Weinstein, and in her home when a female friend of hers was present. She wrote that she "knew about Harvey's reputation as a womanizer; tales of his trying to seduce every young actress in town were infamous."

Link

Everyone knew but he was influential so no one did anything, no one stood up, no one voiced out or if they did it was by allusion only, and so he was able to carry on and more and more people were affected.

Being sexually harassed is shaming to the person being harassed. It's not easy to talk about it. It's also not easy when you think you're alone and perceive that this behaviour is just part of the business. So to allow for people to feel they can speak out, and also for people to think this behaviour shouldn't be tolerated is a 'tangible good'. And it's also not easy when the response can be 'did you lead them on?', 'how were you dressed', or the stock talking heads responses per the OP, or the treatment of Anita Hill.. or Monica Lewinsky.. or god knows who else.

No criminals brought down?

Criminal investigations into complaints from at least six women are ongoing in Los Angeles, New York City, and London. On May 25, 2018, Weinstein was arrested in New York, charged with rape and other offenses, and released on bail.[1]

Well let's see.

As for Louis CK, he thought it was fine to invite people to his hotel room and then masturbate in front of them.. is it the most heinous thing in the world.. no? But for fuck's sake..

I mean to take it worse this thing of not speaking out against celebrity leads to Jimmy Saville being able to abuse hundreds of kids for years and nothing happens.

Yet for me it's as much about the ordinary everyday low level inappropriate behaviour.

But does that give anyone the right to stop Louis ck from working?

Did anyone?

[Des-Bal]

#metoo has always been a mix of productive discourse and toxic mob mentality. Sexual assault is worth discussing, but the hysteria isn't helpful.

And just like a mixture of shit and ice cream it's not good. Even if ice cream outweighed the shit, and let's be honest I don't think it does, we can still feel safe throwing the whole thing out. We have alway had a problem with the public forming mobs and treating an accusation as proof of guilt but it's definitely gotten worse. Max Landis took some heat for sexual assault allegations with no victim.

If an apology isn't enough then what should he do? Let's remember that his big sin was masturbating in front of consenting fellow comedians, not subordinates.

Didn't he also do it a subordinate when he was writing for something? That was the only one I actually objected to.

[Ethel mermania]

But does that give anyone the right to stop Louis ck from working?

Did anyone?

Just going to throw this out there

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/29/opin ... stice.html

[Des-Bal]

Just going to throw this out there

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/29/opin ... stice.html

Also I just want to throw this out there, Louis CK asked women if he could masturbate in front of them, if they said yes he did if they said no he didn't. Every article I see mention it says he did it without their consent which is absolutely not true.

[Bombadil]

Did anyone?

Just going to throw this out there

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/29/opin ... stice.html

Well it's an opinion, and really it's asking how much.. and similar to my own earlier post asking what, exactly, constitutes an apology? Especially when carefully worded through a legal team - which I honestly can understand. Is 9 months off the comedy stage apology enough? He feels so, the people applauding his set feels so, some people don't.

Yet hey, if there's no shame in what he did then go get up there and do your stand up buddy.. Rosa Parks didn't agree with the public opinion that people have their designated seats and took her stand so if he feels he has nothing really to apologise for, other than to stave off a potential suit, then go for it.

What exactly has he done other than a statement and 9 months off.. but the whole 'let's just move on shall we' treatment of these things is exactly what allows it to continue.

I want him naked with a bell in the streets with 'Shame.. Shame' being called.. or did I just dream that punishment up?

Yet really, he's testing the waters, people are calling him on that test..

[Bombadil]

Just going to throw this out there

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/29/opin ... stice.html

Also I just want to throw this out there, Louis CK asked women if he could masturbate in front of them, if they said yes he did if they said no he didn't. Every article I see mention it says he did it without their consent which is absolutely not true.

It's amazing what people might go 'amm.. oka-ayy..' to when presented with something off the wall.. as opposed to them going 'oh man, really.. totally Louis I'd love that!'

But hey.. everything's the victim's fault, they didn't walk out, they didn't say no, they wore an inappropriate dress, they effectively signed a contract saying 'it's all ok, my bad..'

Stop excusing bad behaviour.

[Costa Fierro]

Jesus..

Shall we talk about the issue of sexual abuse in the entertainment industry?
No, it might affect whether my male boss feels safe being in a meeting with me..

I mean you hear these same talking points each time, in fact John Oliver did a piece and essentially every question by the OP and your point here are shown to be trotted out every time this happens by talking heads in the media.

Except it was never about sexual abuse in the entertainment industry, it was sexual abuse, full stop. You don't provide a platform for people to make accusations when they're not in the entertainment industry. And because of the wholesale nature of these accusations, and no method of validating them, men in positions of power are concerned. And (God forgive me for citing Vox) women are worried about the potential ramifications. Things are already in motion in some circles. To the point where women are worried that they'll lose out in corporate industries. This isn't merely something that's trotted out as a talking point, this is serious. It's serious for women. It would be naive to simply dismiss it as nonsense because it isn't.