What political ideology do you identify as?

[Erdogan in cool sunglasses]

I wouldn't call myself Left-wing in any way, shape or form. Because I'm a patriot.

Left-wingers can be patriots.

Which leads usually to views similar to Stalinism.

[HYDRA-Russian Empire]

I'm a proud conservative

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Left-wingers can be patriots.

Which leads usually to views similar to Stalinism.

False. There are many different kinds of leftism.

[Aleckandor]

Which leads usually to views similar to Stalinism.

False. There are many different kinds of leftism.

Of course, but there's an awful lot of non-Stalinist (hell, even overt anti-Stalinist) strands of leftism whose theory and praxis alike may inevitably lead back to Stalin-esque actions against who and what they consider to be class enemies. For example, take what the Anarcho-Syndicalists of the CNT-FAI did in the areas they controlled during the Spanish Civil War: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_Catalonia#Crimes

Nature abhors a vacuum, and the nature of political power is the same. The anarchists may have claimed to hate Stalin's totalitarianism but in practice carried out a lot of the same things he was doing in Russia at the time, albeit in a more spontaneous and decentralized manner.

[Kubumba Tribe]

False. There are many different kinds of leftism.

Of course, but there's an awful lot of non-Stalinist (hell, even overt anti-Stalinist) strands of leftism whose theory and praxis alie may inevitably back to Stalin-esque actions against who and what they consider to be class enemies. For example, take what the Anarcho-Syndicalists of the CNT-FAI did in the areas they controlled during the Spanish Civil War: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_Catalonia#Crimes

Nature abhors a vacuum, and the nature of political power is the same. The anarchists may have claimed to hate Stalin's totalitarianism but in practice carried out a lot of the same things he was doing in Russia at the time, albeit in a more spontaneous and decentralized manner.

That does not prove that leftism as a whole leads to Stalinism

[Erdogan in cool sunglasses]

Of course, but there's an awful lot of non-Stalinist (hell, even overt anti-Stalinist) strands of leftism whose theory and praxis alie may inevitably back to Stalin-esque actions against who and what they consider to be class enemies. For example, take what the Anarcho-Syndicalists of the CNT-FAI did in the areas they controlled during the Spanish Civil War: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_Catalonia#Crimes

Nature abhors a vacuum, and the nature of political power is the same. The anarchists may have claimed to hate Stalin's totalitarianism but in practice carried out a lot of the same things he was doing in Russia at the time, albeit in a more spontaneous and decentralized manner.

That does not prove that leftism as a whole leads to Stalinism

But we do not discuss the leftism as a whole but the patriotic leftism. It's pretty limiting because leftism is usually internationalist. But then you have a bunch of patriotic leftists who led their countries and the more left they were they more crucial the state they built was. Just short look is enough. You can choose Hitler, Stalin, Kims, Enver Hoxha or (from more centre-left side) Piłsudski and Atatürk. Every leader mentioned leader has a tendency to oppress the minorities as well as political opposition.

[Free Tristania]

I wouldn't call myself Left-wing in any way, shape or form. Because I'm a patriot.

Left-wingers can be patriots.

As we have seen in Europe lately.... Sorry, but I have come to equate Leftism with the likes of Vidkun Quisling.

I wouldn't call myself Left-wing in any way, shape or form. Because I'm a patriot.

Why would leftism contradict patriotism?

Because its central tenet is internationalism and support for international organsations. As we have seen with Leftism lately: it's anti-traditional (I'm a very strong believer in traditional values and traditional culture), anti-Western and very pro-taking power away from the country itself and giving it to supranational organisations that then further dismantle the nationstate and its democratic principles.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Left-wingers can be patriots.

As we have seen in Europe lately....

What's happening in Europe that makes you think leftists aren't patriots?

Sorry, but I have come to equate Leftism with the likes of Vidkun Quisling.

Whomst?

[Free Tristania]

As we have seen in Europe lately....

What's happening in Europe that makes you think leftists aren't patriots?

Sorry, but I have come to equate Leftism with the likes of Vidkun Quisling.

Whomst?

It were the Leftists that dismantled traditional institutions, destroyed traditional morality and then opened the borders. Who was Vidkun Quisling ? He was the chap who delivered his country to the invading Nazi's. In British English, it's still synonymous with the word "traitor". Since I am a patriot and distrustful of any form of centralisation, believe in evolution rather than revolution (for every "progressive" step there needs to be either popular consultation or an outright nationwide referendum), and in maintaining a nation's culture, mores and tradition, there is not a Leftist bone in my body.

[Illemenia]

Left Libertarian who is against any form of collectivism.

[Kubumba Tribe]

What's happening in Europe that makes you think leftists aren't patriots?

Whomst?

It were the Leftists that dismantled traditional institutions, destroyed traditional morality and then opened the borders.

As for opening the borders, how would that make someone unpatriotic?

Who was Vidkun Quisling ? He was the chap who delivered his country to the invading Nazi's.

Ok, so when are the Leftists bringing in Nazis now?

[Free Tristania]

It were the Leftists that dismantled traditional institutions, destroyed traditional morality and then opened the borders.

As for opening the borders, how would that make someone unpatriotic?

Who was Vidkun Quisling ? He was the chap who delivered his country to the invading Nazi's.

Ok, so when are the Leftists bringing in Nazis now?

Opening the borders to problems and internal replacement (while defending those doing it when they run into trouble with the law) ? Yes.
They are bringing in the EU. Which is just as bad as the Nazi's or commies in their determination to stuff the nations, yes. Whether you do it with tanks or with treaties should make no difference. In both case, dissidents get put down and the public ignored (as we have seen with several referendums here). The result is the same: a nation gets occupied and subjected to foreign laws.

[Finswedeway]

I believe a mix of things that pull from aspects of libertarianism and social democracy, so I guess that makes me some kind of liberal

[Kubumba Tribe]

As for opening the borders, how would that make someone unpatriotic?

Ok, so when are the Leftists bringing in Nazis now?

Opening the borders to problems and internal replacement (while defending those doing it when they run into trouble with the law) ? Yes.

>Internal replacement
https://fullfact.org/immigration/uk-refugees/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_ ... ed_Kingdom
Also, source for leftists defending criminals?

They are bringing in the EU. Which is just as bad as the Nazi's or commies in their determination to stuff the nations, yes. Whether you do it with tanks or with treaties should make no difference. In both case, dissidents get put down and the public ignored (as we have seen with several referendums here). The result is the same.

Doing stuff with treaties is very different from doing stuff with weapons. And the EU isn't anywhere similar to the Nazis and Soviets, stop exaggerating.

[Kubumba Tribe]

a nation gets occupied and subjected to foreign laws.

What is the UK being occupied by, and what foreign laws?

[Free Tristania]

Opening the borders to problems and internal replacement (while defending those doing it when they run into trouble with the law) ? Yes.

>Internal replacement
https://fullfact.org/immigration/uk-refugees/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_ ... ed_Kingdom
Also, source for leftists defending criminals?

They are bringing in the EU. Which is just as bad as the Nazi's or commies in their determination to stuff the nations, yes. Whether you do it with tanks or with treaties should make no difference. In both case, dissidents get put down and the public ignored (as we have seen with several referendums here). The result is the same.

Doing stuff with treaties is very different from doing stuff with weapons. And the EU isn't anywhere similar to the Nazis and Soviets, stop exaggerating.

A source for Leftists defending criminals ? We have a beautiful case today (actually). But I can also refer to the Rotherham and Telford Scandals. But for today's case: http://www.dagelijksestandaard.nl/2018/ ... yandex.com More leftist source: https://www.parool.nl/opinie/de-onbegri ... ~a4604743/ https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achter ... ~baaff318/ for her background here: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/lin ... ccounter=1

A rapist was spared from severe punishment and deportation to his own country because the judge proved to be a Leftist activist.

Actually: it isn't. Remember the Anschluss of 1938 ? It's not that difficult: you don't need weapons to conquer a country. In the EU the laws are not made by an elected parliament (in which our vote counts for little anyway) but by an unelected commissions and lobbyists. As for the replacement we can look at the Dutch figure: currently the Netherlands has 18 million inhabitants. 13.5 are ethnic Dutch. By 2030 that population will be around 11 million while the total number o inhabitants keeps growing through migration. In Sweden, 25% is foreign and they are taking in 100.000 every single year. Sweden's birthrate ? 1.88 (and that includes migrants who skew the figures because they have a higher birthrate), the Netherlands, 1.6 (also there, the number needs to be adjusted for the migrant birthrate). In the case of the Netherlands, even the Central Statistics Agency publishes figures: https://www.geenstijl.nl/5139941/cbs-om ... s-in-2060/

Your fact checker is more a propaganda website than a fact checker btw: http://enzaferreri.blogspot.com/2012/12 ... rtial.html (much like Snopes, for instance). Wikipedia also has a strong leftist bias. It's a bit like asking the Nasjonal Samling about the popularity of the Wehrmacht in occupied Norway or linking a source in Volk en Vaderland about their popularity in WW2 Netherlands..

a nation gets occupied and subjected to foreign laws.

What is the UK being occupied by, and what foreign laws?

Until the day it leaves, it will be subject to EU Law. Laws they do not have control over.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

>Internal replacement
https://fullfact.org/immigration/uk-refugees/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_ ... ed_Kingdom
Also, source for leftists defending criminals?

Doing stuff with treaties is very different from doing stuff with weapons. And the EU isn't anywhere similar to the Nazis and Soviets, stop exaggerating.

A source for Leftists defending criminals ? We have a beautiful case today (actually). But I can also refer to the Rotherham and Telford Scandals. But for today's case: http://www.dagelijksestandaard.nl/2018/ ... yandex.com More leftist source: https://www.parool.nl/opinie/de-onbegri ... ~a4604743/ https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achter ... ~baaff318/ for her background here: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/lin ... ccounter=1

A rapist was spared from severe punishment and deportation to his own country because the judge proved to be a Leftist activist.

You know I can't understand Dutch, right?

Actually: it isn't. Remember the Anschluss of 1938 ? It's not that difficult: you don't need weapons to conquer a country.

Show me where I said this.

In the EU the laws are not made by an elected parliament (in which our vote counts for little anyway) but by an unelected commissions and lobbyists. As for the replacement we can look at the Dutch figure: currently the Netherlands has 18 million inhabitants. 13.5 are ethnic Dutch. By 2030 that population will be around 11 million while the total number o inhabitants keeps growing through migration. In Sweden, 25% is foreign and they are taking in 100.000 every single year. Sweden's birthrate ? 1.88 (and that includes migrants who skew the figures because they have a higher birthrate), the Netherlands, 1.6 (also there, the number needs to be adjusted for the migrant birthrate).

The more you know.

Your fact checker is more a propaganda website than a fact checker btw: http://enzaferreri.blogspot.com/2012/12 ... rtial.html

1: I don't that website, I use a different one.
2: Blogs are not evidence.

(much like Snopes, for instance).

Prove it.

Wikipedia also has a strong leftist bias.

Prove it.

Until the day it leaves, it will be subject to EU Law. Laws they do not have control over.

The UK wanted to be a part of the EU, so the laws aren't "foreign". Maybe now you can make that case because of Brexit, but not when the country was an EU member.

[Major-Tom]

Left-wingers can be patriots.

As we have seen in Europe lately.... Sorry, but I have come to equate Leftism with the likes of Vidkun Quisling.

Why would leftism contradict patriotism?

Because its central tenet is internationalism and support for international organsations. As we have seen with Leftism lately: it's anti-traditional (I'm a very strong believer in traditional values and traditional culture), anti-Western and very pro-taking power away from the country itself and giving it to supranational organisations that then further dismantle the nationstate and its democratic principles.

I totally disagree. I would say, more than anything, the strongest internationalist sentiments come from areas near the center of the political spectrum.

And, to be honest, some degree of support for internationalism isn't incompatible with patriotism. I'm a patriot, a social democrat, and I think you can love your country while also recognizing that global cooperation and support for some world bodies (to ensure that war crimes don't happen, etc) is necessary.

[Free Tristania]

A source for Leftists defending criminals ? We have a beautiful case today (actually). But I can also refer to the Rotherham and Telford Scandals. But for today's case: http://www.dagelijksestandaard.nl/2018/ ... yandex.com More leftist source: https://www.parool.nl/opinie/de-onbegri ... ~a4604743/ https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achter ... ~baaff318/ for her background here: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/lin ... ccounter=1

A rapist was spared from severe punishment and deportation to his own country because the judge proved to be a Leftist activist.

You know I can't understand Dutch, right?

Actually: it isn't. Remember the Anschluss of 1938 ? It's not that difficult: you don't need weapons to conquer a country.

Show me where I said this.

In the EU the laws are not made by an elected parliament (in which our vote counts for little anyway) but by an unelected commissions and lobbyists. As for the replacement we can look at the Dutch figure: currently the Netherlands has 18 million inhabitants. 13.5 are ethnic Dutch. By 2030 that population will be around 11 million while the total number o inhabitants keeps growing through migration. In Sweden, 25% is foreign and they are taking in 100.000 every single year. Sweden's birthrate ? 1.88 (and that includes migrants who skew the figures because they have a higher birthrate), the Netherlands, 1.6 (also there, the number needs to be adjusted for the migrant birthrate).

The more you know.

Your fact checker is more a propaganda website than a fact checker btw: http://enzaferreri.blogspot.com/2012/12 ... rtial.html

1: I don't that website, I use a different one.
2: Blogs are not evidence.

(much like Snopes, for instance).

Prove it.

Wikipedia also has a strong leftist bias.

Prove it.

Until the day it leaves, it will be subject to EU Law. Laws they do not have control over.

The UK wanted to be a part of the EU, so the laws aren't "foreign". Maybe now you can make that case because of Brexit, but not when the country was an EU member.

1. If you like globalism, it would mean that you may have to learn a new language. Just use Google Translate.
2. You said that the EU wasn't an occupation. I just showed you how it very much is one.
3. You learned something new today. And it can be sourced too.
4. You did use that one.
5. Neither are slanted "fact" checkers.
6. Do some reading around. It has been known for years. I think the article first appeared in the Daily Mail.
7. https://hbr.org/2014/12/wikipedia-is-mo ... -the-crowd Has also been known for years.
8. No. They wanted to be part of the European Community and the single market. Not the EU as there was never a EU referendum. Not in 1993 or at a later date until the Brexit-referendum.

[Free Tristania]

As we have seen in Europe lately.... Sorry, but I have come to equate Leftism with the likes of Vidkun Quisling.


Because its central tenet is internationalism and support for international organsations. As we have seen with Leftism lately: it's anti-traditional (I'm a very strong believer in traditional values and traditional culture), anti-Western and very pro-taking power away from the country itself and giving it to supranational organisations that then further dismantle the nationstate and its democratic principles.

I totally disagree. I would say, more than anything, the strongest internationalist sentiments come from areas near the center of the political spectrum.

And, to be honest, some degree of support for internationalism isn't incompatible with patriotism. I'm a patriot, a social democrat, and I think you can love your country while also recognizing that global cooperation and support for some world bodies (to ensure that war crimes don't happen, etc) is necessary.

But do you think that such cooperation has to be approved in a national referendum (not just on a membership but on a treaty-to-treaty basis) ?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

You know I can't understand Dutch, right?

Show me where I said this.

The more you know.

1: I don't that website, I use a different one.
2: Blogs are not evidence.

Prove it.

Prove it.

The UK wanted to be a part of the EU, so the laws aren't "foreign". Maybe now you can make that case because of Brexit, but not when the country was an EU member.

1. If you like globalism, it would mean that you may have to learn a new language. Just use Google Translate.

I'm neutral on globalism and I'm currently learning 2 languages: Spanish and Arabic. Also, liking globalism doesn't mean someone wants to learn a language.

2. You said that the EU wasn't an occupation. I just showed you how it very much is one.

No you didn't. At best, you showed it was corrupt.

3. You learned something new today. And it can be sourced too.

Show me.

4. You did use that one.

Show me.

5. Neither are slanted "fact" checkers.

So you admit that your source isn't reliable, meaning you have to find a new one to prove your point.

6. Do some reading around. It has been known for years. I think the article first appeared in the Daily Mail.
7. https://hbr.org/2014/12/wikipedia-is-mo ... -the-crowd Has also been known for years.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof

8. No. They wanted to be part of the European Community and the single market. Not the EU as there was never a EU referendum. Not in 1993 or at a later date until the Brexit-referendum.

Show me proof.

[Major-Tom]

I totally disagree. I would say, more than anything, the strongest internationalist sentiments come from areas near the center of the political spectrum.

And, to be honest, some degree of support for internationalism isn't incompatible with patriotism. I'm a patriot, a social democrat, and I think you can love your country while also recognizing that global cooperation and support for some world bodies (to ensure that war crimes don't happen, etc) is necessary.

But do you think that such cooperation has to be approved in a national referendum (not just on a membership but on a treaty-to-treaty basis) ?

Depends. In context of the EU, most certainly. The French, and Dutch, iirc, rejected several treaties, but they went through anyways. That sorta heavy hand of the EU is one of my biggest problems with the organization.

But international co-operation, whether it be through the UN and other agreements can be beneficial, sometimes not. It's not so black and white to me.

So, to answer your question fully, I would say that in regards to things like the Treaty of Lisbon and Maastricht, I would say yes. In regards, to, say, a binding agreement against war crimes or climate change, I would say no.

[Erdogan in cool sunglasses]

Problem with the EU is that the organization is changing without any treaties and it is highly dependent on the people in European Commission and EU parliament instead of literal rule of law, because rule of law is very flawed here and everything depends on interpretation. Today the interpretation turns into favor for forced unity but it not always looked like that.

For example three countries (UK, Poland and Czechia) about ten years ago rejected some parts of Lisbon Treaty and almost no one in the EU had a problem with it. Today three countries rejected the migrant deal (Poland, Czechia and Hungary) and everyone has a problem with that and rulers of these countries are called fascist. Ten years were enough to completely change the union in the wrong way. Next ten years will kill it.

Happily the EU doesn't have an army because today probably we would see the repeat of 1956 or 1968 in Czechia and Hungary.

[Diopolis]

Half of those are just sexual lifestyles you find distasteful (and furries aren't even necessarily sexual anymore). The other half are responses and didn't just come the fuck out of nowhere.

It doesn’t matter if Furries are sexual or not pretending that you are an animal is a serious mental issue

Clearly all five year olds must see a psychiatrist.

[Saranidia]

Islamic modernist and corbynist are 2 labels I have many more if anyone wants to know more sour my ideology ask.