NationStates

Luminesa wrote:

Ranoria wrote:Wentz can certainly play and I’d believe that he had the top out of pocket passer rating. Colin Cowherd puts it pretty well about him- he’s throwing to lawn furniture and deck chairs. Dude still got the eagles into the playoffs.

Also, college football is not happening this season.

Some of it is, but it’s being moved to the spring. (SWAC is doing this for instance.) The Big Ten may change their minds and do the same. They get too much money from football and making their decision last-minute is going to rip a hole in them.

Maybe this whole thing will straighten out those who want to keep up the illusion about College Football being an amateur sport, what with the hundreds of millions in TV contracts, coaches being paid millions, athletics directors being paid millions, journalists covering CF being paid handsomely, tons in revenue from selling tickets to the games and so on.

If this was an amateur sport, Saban wouldn't be paid like he is. Pay the coaches = pay the players.
I can still recall the moment I heard that the NCAA sent actual investigators to investigate whether or not some player had received a free can of coke. Actual adults sending out actual adults to try and find out if someone got a free beverage, because they had to "protect the sanctity of the amateur character of the game" ignoring the millions being paid to coaches etc.

Tombradyonia wrote:

Luminesa wrote:Some of it is, but it’s being moved to the spring. (SWAC is doing this for instance.) The Big Ten may change their minds and do the same. They get too much money from football and making their decision last-minute is going to rip a hole in them.

Maybe this whole thing will straighten out those who want to keep up the illusion about College Football being an amateur sport, what with the hundreds of millions in TV contracts, coaches being paid millions, athletics directors being paid millions, journalists covering CF being paid handsomely, tons in revenue from selling tickets to the games and so on.

If this was an amateur sport, Saban wouldn't be paid like he is. Pay the coaches = pay the players.
I can still recall the moment I heard that the NCAA sent actual investigators to investigate whether or not some player had received a free can of coke. Actual adults sending out actual adults to try and find out if someone got a free beverage, because they had to "protect the sanctity of the amateur character of the game" ignoring the millions being paid to coaches etc.

Nick Saban gets $10 million a year to whine when he misses a recruitment deadline, his team is routinely a bunch of sore losers when they are down and he gets no penalties, but if the players give autographs, or even give presents from relatives, they can lose literally everything, up to and including team championships.

Luminesa wrote:

Ranoria wrote:Wentz can certainly play and I’d believe that he had the top out of pocket passer rating. Colin Cowherd puts it pretty well about him- he’s throwing to lawn furniture and deck chairs. Dude still got the eagles into the playoffs.

Also, college football is not happening this season.

Some of it is, but it’s being moved to the spring. (SWAC is doing this for instance.) The Big Ten may change their minds and do the same. They get too much money from football and making their decision last-minute is going to rip a hole in them.

To the contrary, lawsuits can cripple them more than this. Imagine if 25% of the players’ families sued them if their kids so much as got sick, much less the COVID.

I totally disagree with this ‘pay the players’ thing though. First off- players are part of it, but the coach makes the team generally. Alabama doesn’t win its championships without Saban. I do think they should allow the players to take sponsorship deals and such, no harm in that, but don’t discount the scholarships these kids get. Most of them aren’t going pro, and saving 20-50k a year is huge for them. That can be a lot more than most people make in a year.

Ranoria wrote:

Luminesa wrote:Some of it is, but it’s being moved to the spring. (SWAC is doing this for instance.) The Big Ten may change their minds and do the same. They get too much money from football and making their decision last-minute is going to rip a hole in them.

To the contrary, lawsuits can cripple them more than this. Imagine if 25% of the players’ families sued them if their kids so much as got sick, much less the COVID.

I totally disagree with this ‘pay the players’ thing though. First off- players are part of it, but the coach makes the team generally. Alabama doesn’t win its championships without Saban. I do think they should allow the players to take sponsorship deals and such, no harm in that, but don’t discount the scholarships these kids get. Most of them aren’t going pro, and saving 20-50k a year is huge for them. That can be a lot more than most people make in a year.

The coach organizes the team, but the team is very little without good players. The difference between LSU’s team two years ago and last year is pretty significant, even under the same coach. Even Nick Saban knows that he is nothing without the players he recruits so well every year.

Furthermore, even if the players are not paid, they should not lose scholarships, eligibility, and even championships because they did autographs or accepted gifts from people. They are paid good money to play for a team, with a slight chance at reaching the NFL...and that’s it. There’s roughly no benefits, none of the individual stardom, and the school is far too afraid of being held liable for something the students do while also allowing many of them to get away with domestic abuse and other crimes. It’s a Frankenstein’s monster of priorities, and the shakeups happening with college football right now should really allow these issues to be discussed in a more forthright manner.

I realize this should probably all go in the College Football Discussion, but I felt it had to be said, because they do almost everything pro players do except they are treated even more like property.

Luminesa wrote:

Ranoria wrote:To the contrary, lawsuits can cripple them more than this. Imagine if 25% of the players’ families sued them if their kids so much as got sick, much less the COVID.

I totally disagree with this ‘pay the players’ thing though. First off- players are part of it, but the coach makes the team generally. Alabama doesn’t win its championships without Saban. I do think they should allow the players to take sponsorship deals and such, no harm in that, but don’t discount the scholarships these kids get. Most of them aren’t going pro, and saving 20-50k a year is huge for them. That can be a lot more than most people make in a year.

The coach organizes the team, but the team is very little without good players. The difference between LSU’s team two years ago and last year is pretty significant, even under the same coach. Even Nick Saban knows that he is nothing without the players he recruits so well every year.

Furthermore, even if the players are not paid, they should not lose scholarships, eligibility, and even championships because they did autographs or accepted gifts from people. They are paid good money to play for a team, with a slight chance at reaching the NFL...and that’s it. There’s roughly no benefits, none of the individual stardom, and the school is far too afraid of being held liable for something the students do while also allowing many of them to get away with domestic abuse and other crimes. It’s a Frankenstein’s monster of priorities, and the shakeups happening with college football right now should really allow these issues to be discussed in a more forthright manner.

I realize this should probably all go in the College Football Discussion, but I felt it had to be said, because they do almost everything pro players do except they are treated even more like property.

I think we're in agreement for the most part here. There are certainly benefits to playing college football though, that I can tell you. Tutoring, scholarships (again, don't discount this. For someone who doesn't make the pros, that's a huge amount of money that you don't owe coming out), generally professors being a bit more lax with you, separate usually better dorms for upper D2 and higher, and for a lot of programs: Better cafeteria options.

There's other stuff, too, but I think we mostly agree. Sponsorship and making money shouldn't be an issue for the NCAA, especially since some of these guys just don't pan out in the NFL. Jamarcus Russell probably would have had a couple more years of money to burn through if he had been allowed to go after sponsorship lol.

In other news; Vikings signed Everson Griffen, leaving Clowney as the last edge standing. Love that dude, but he got 13.5 sacks in the last two years with Danielle Hunter on the other side, I wouldn't expect much out of him.
https://www.nfl.com/news/cowboys-signin ... on-griffen

I'm gonna leave this poll up a while longer because it's highly contested. Vote if you haven't already!

New Orleans Saints announce that they will not allow fans in for the Home Opener against the Tampa Bay Succaneers....I mean Buccaneers.

Shazbotdom wrote:New Orleans Saints announce that they will not allow fans in for the Home Opener against the Tampa Bay Succaneers....I mean Buccaneers.

We'll hopefully be able to see the Saints eviscerate the Bucs from home.

Luminesa wrote:

Shazbotdom wrote:New Orleans Saints announce that they will not allow fans in for the Home Opener against the Tampa Bay Succaneers....I mean Buccaneers.

We'll hopefully be able to see the Saints eviscerate the Bucs from home.

Should be one hell of an opener, regardless. I’ve heard Drew brees has gotten significantly stronger this offseason. He’s deadlifting 350 pounds with a hex bar. Not a super impressive number for a pro athlete, but as a QB maybe. Some guy said that he ‘took ten years off his arm,’ this offseason.

Anyone else know the Niners signed Jason Verett? I feel like he was in conversation as best in the league last time he was healthy. Him and Sherman could be a nice duo, especially with that pass rush making quarterbacks uncomfortable. Granted, I’ve also learned by now that generally, guys who get hurt a few years in a row tend to not come out as good afterwards.

In other news: poll will be updated in a few minutes. Last round coming up!

Ranoria wrote:

Luminesa wrote:We'll hopefully be able to see the Saints eviscerate the Bucs from home.

Should be one hell of an opener, regardless. I’ve heard Drew brees has gotten significantly stronger this offseason. He’s deadlifting 350 pounds with a hex bar. Not a super impressive number for a pro athlete, but as a QB maybe. Some guy said that he ‘took ten years off his arm,’ this offseason.

Well, he's gotta keep up with those 4 kids of his. lol

Shazbotdom wrote:

Ranoria wrote:Should be one hell of an opener, regardless. I’ve heard Drew brees has gotten significantly stronger this offseason. He’s deadlifting 350 pounds with a hex bar. Not a super impressive number for a pro athlete, but as a QB maybe. Some guy said that he ‘took ten years off his arm,’ this offseason.

Well, he's gotta keep up with those 4 kids of his. lol

If that's what it takes to keep up with 4, one wonders what Rivers does to keep up with the like 9 he has.

Ameriganastan wrote:

Shazbotdom wrote:Well, he's gotta keep up with those 4 kids of his. lol

If that's what it takes to keep up with 4, one wonders what Rivers does to keep up with the like 9 he has.

Dunno. Rivers has been having a few bad seasons, though. Maybe those 9 kids of his are wearing him out.

Shazbotdom wrote:

Ameriganastan wrote:If that's what it takes to keep up with 4, one wonders what Rivers does to keep up with the like 9 he has.

Dunno. Rivers has been having a few bad seasons, though. Maybe those 9 kids of his are wearing him out.

I mean, last time he was under 4,286 yards was 2012. 2016 and 2019 he threw too many picks (21 and 20, respectively), but generally I'd say he's been producing a ton of offense. 3 of the last 6 seasons he's had 30+ touchdown passes. I also have my doubts to him moving his whole family. Could he potentially have more energy to focus on football in Indianapolis?

Granted, I'm a Titans fan, so uh, let's hope not.

Sidenote - Tannehill was on pace for a 4,387 yard, 35 TD, 10 INT season through a full year in 2019 Doubt he's going to go off like that, but I certainly wouldn't complain, those are low end MVP type numbers.

Ranoria wrote:

Luminesa wrote:We'll hopefully be able to see the Saints eviscerate the Bucs from home.

Should be one hell of an opener, regardless. I’ve heard Drew brees has gotten significantly stronger this offseason. He’s deadlifting 350 pounds with a hex bar. Not a super impressive number for a pro athlete, but as a QB maybe. Some guy said that he ‘took ten years off his arm,’ this offseason.

That's really good to hear, though Brees has always had decent arm-strength. Brees doesn't always get to show that off because he focuses more on accuracy than dazzling 50-yard throws (hi Ben Roesthlisberger), but he really does have an arm. I'm excited to see him kick tushes.

Clutch is difficult. I would not put Russell Wilson here. The other three options are basically neck-and-neck. Rodgers can pull comebacks out of thin air (did so TWICE against the Arizona Cardinals in the playoffs, and against Dallas on basically a broken leg). Tom Brady is a monster after the two-minute warning. I may actually go back and re-pick, but Patty Mahomes should get credit as well, he's gotten experience with comebacks now and he's pretty fabulous overall.

Players who should be in Russell's place:
1.) Drew Brees - Biased, but Brees has commandeered quite a few insane comebacks. Steelers last year, Ravens year before last (though Lutz finished that game), San Francisco and Houston last year, the Bengals in 2011, the Cowboys in 2011/12, shoot, the flipping Super Bowl?!?!? Maybe he's not as known for the game-winning TDs in those scenarios, but his internal clock is pristine and uncanny, and he knows time management like almost nobody in the game.
2.) Tony Romo - Even if they were not always wins, and I loved to bash Romo because Romo made mistakes like H&M makes bad clothes, when he wanted to do a comeback he could do one. That almost-win against Peyton Manning's Denver Broncos was one of the best games of his career, if not THE best. He got outgunned, tragically, but threw for over 500 yards and fought for every yard. His win over San Francisco while he had a punctured lung and a broken rib was also noteworthy. He should have pulled-out, but decided to play to the end.
3.) Andrew Luck - May his career rest in peace. His first playoff game against the Chiefs was unbelievable. Nobody else at that time could have pulled a 45-point comeback in two quarters, including crawling over his entire O-line for one of those TDs. Maybe he didn't always show he could do that, but that's his management's fault, as everything was, for sabotaging his career by grossly mismanaging his skills, leaving him hanging without an O-line for most of his career, and then forcing him to play while hurt and hiding his injuries.
4.) Matt Ryan - Giving the devil his due, so to speak. At the prime of his career, Matt Ryan was frightening after the two-minute warning. Matty Ice was not a pushover, I remember the first Saints loss I ever saw as a football fan, and it was against the Falcons. It was brutal.

So yeah, just some suggestions.

Any answer other than Brady is wrong.

See, I’m going modern here. Otherwise Peyton would be everything besides speed lol.

I don’t think Brees is particularly clutch anymore. I’m sure he was, but last few times I’ve seen him down in the 4th quarter, it’s been a pick. Except that game against the Vikings, Minneapolis Miracle. He did incredible there. Wilson...I dunno, I felt like he probably is. Rodgers is the Hail Mary King, but Brady...I’ve seen him fail twice in the fourth quarter. Once, really, the second was a 2006 throwback. And that was against Tennessee in 2019. Every time he’s down one score, be it 50 seconds or 2 minutes left, I say the same thing. “I’ve seen this story too many times.” And I’ve been right all but once.

Romo excluded for same reason as Brees’s prime.

Matty Ice...I’m eh on. The dude went 1-19 or something throwing to julio in the red zone one year. That killed my opinion of him.

That said, I think we have clear cut winner! Final ‘Perfect’ QB coming right up!

As voted: the NFL thread’s Perfect Quarterback!

Awareness and Decision Making: Tom Brady
Arm Strength: Patty freaking Mahomes
Arm Talent (angles and stuff, off platform): Patty freaking Mahomes
Accuracy: Drew Brees
Pocket Presence and Pocket Maneuverability: Aaron Rodgers
Speed, agility, mobility: Lamar Jackson. Big Truss!
Sack Breaking: Big Ben Roethlisberger
Clutch Factor: Tom Brady

Ranoria wrote:See, I’m going modern here. Otherwise Peyton would be everything besides speed lol.

I don’t think Brees is particularly clutch anymore. I’m sure he was, but last few times I’ve seen him down in the 4th quarter, it’s been a pick. Except that game against the Vikings, Minneapolis Miracle. He did incredible there. Wilson...I dunno, I felt like he probably is. Rodgers is the Hail Mary King, but Brady...I’ve seen him fail twice in the fourth quarter. Once, really, the second was a 2006 throwback. And that was against Tennessee in 2019. Every time he’s down one score, be it 50 seconds or 2 minutes left, I say the same thing. “I’ve seen this story too many times.” And I’ve been right all but once.

Romo excluded for same reason as Brees’s prime.

Matty Ice...I’m eh on. The dude went 1-19 or something throwing to julio in the red zone one year. That killed my opinion of him.

That said, I think we have clear cut winner! Final ‘Perfect’ QB coming right up!

I can tell you right now that Drew Brees has more 4th quarter comebacks than Russell Wilson. In fact, he is third all-time in comebacks in his career. Russell Wilson doesn't even scrape the Top 20 all-time. Maybe one day he will, but right now Brees is objectively better.

Tony Romo also has more comebacks than Wilson on this list. 24 versus 21.

Oddly enough Aaron Rodgers is not even in the Top 50, but Rodgers has always been impressive at comebacks.

Matt Ryan has fallen-off, and that's indisputable. I actually have to take back what I said about comebacks, because apparently he's not even in the Top 100 of this list. That's...abysmal.

Other positions would be hard because
RB:
The Speed of Bo, the trucking power of Jim Brown, the carrying ability of Jim Brown, the toughness of Jim Brown, the attitude of Jim Brown, and the moves of LT.

Luminesa wrote:I can tell you right now that Drew Brees has more 4th quarter comebacks than Russell Wilson. In fact, he is third all-time in comebacks in his career. Russell Wilson doesn't even scrape the Top 20 all-time. Maybe one day he will, but right now Brees is objectively better.

Tony Romo also has more comebacks than Wilson on this list. 24 versus 21.

Regular season + playoffs:
Manning: 45 fourth quarter comebacks, 56 game-winning drives
Brady: 45 fourth quarter comebacks, 58 game-winning drives

Seems pretty equal, no?

That is, if you didn't look at playoff numbers only:
Manning 2 FQC, 2 GWD
Brady 9 FQC, 13 GWD

Luminesa wrote:

Ranoria wrote:See, I’m going modern here. Otherwise Peyton would be everything besides speed lol.

I don’t think Brees is particularly clutch anymore. I’m sure he was, but last few times I’ve seen him down in the 4th quarter, it’s been a pick. Except that game against the Vikings, Minneapolis Miracle. He did incredible there. Wilson...I dunno, I felt like he probably is. Rodgers is the Hail Mary King, but Brady...I’ve seen him fail twice in the fourth quarter. Once, really, the second was a 2006 throwback. And that was against Tennessee in 2019. Every time he’s down one score, be it 50 seconds or 2 minutes left, I say the same thing. “I’ve seen this story too many times.” And I’ve been right all but once.

Romo excluded for same reason as Brees’s prime.

Matty Ice...I’m eh on. The dude went 1-19 or something throwing to julio in the red zone one year. That killed my opinion of him.

That said, I think we have clear cut winner! Final ‘Perfect’ QB coming right up!

I can tell you right now that Drew Brees has more 4th quarter comebacks than Russell Wilson. In fact, he is third all-time in comebacks in his career. Russell Wilson doesn't even scrape the Top 20 all-time. Maybe one day he will, but right now Brees is objectively better.

Tony Romo also has more comebacks than Wilson on this list. 24 versus 21.

Oddly enough Aaron Rodgers is not even in the Top 50, but Rodgers has always been impressive at comebacks.

Matt Ryan has fallen-off, and that's indisputable. I actually have to take back what I said about comebacks, because apparently he's not even in the Top 100 of this list. That's...abysmal.

The weird thing about the comeback/GWD stat is that in order to get those you have to be losing. And I mean, every team loses sometimes, but QB's who are in the lead a lot are less lilely to rack up the comeback wins. Also a QB whose team is often too far behind to come back will be unable to collect a lot of those either. So it's an interesting statistic, but it's a very oddly weighted one.

Tombradyonia wrote:

Luminesa wrote:I can tell you right now that Drew Brees has more 4th quarter comebacks than Russell Wilson. In fact, he is third all-time in comebacks in his career. Russell Wilson doesn't even scrape the Top 20 all-time. Maybe one day he will, but right now Brees is objectively better.

Tony Romo also has more comebacks than Wilson on this list. 24 versus 21.

Regular season + playoffs:
Manning: 45 fourth quarter comebacks, 56 game-winning drives
Brady: 45 fourth quarter comebacks, 58 game-winning drives

Seems pretty equal, no?

That is, if you didn't look at playoff numbers only:
Manning 2 FQC, 2 GWD
Brady 9 FQC, 13 GWD

Manning when the league doesn't hand him a ring: Chokes every January and the occasional February.

Impaled Nazarene wrote:

Tombradyonia wrote:
Regular season + playoffs:
Manning: 45 fourth quarter comebacks, 56 game-winning drives
Brady: 45 fourth quarter comebacks, 58 game-winning drives

Seems pretty equal, no?

That is, if you didn't look at playoff numbers only:
Manning 2 FQC, 2 GWD
Brady 9 FQC, 13 GWD

Manning when the league doesn't hand him a ring: Chokes every January and the occasional February.

Brady when the league doesn't hand him a ring: Error. There is insufficient data to calculate these results.

Tuck Rule Game anyone?

Idzequitch wrote:

Impaled Nazarene wrote:Manning when the league doesn't hand him a ring: Chokes every January and the occasional February.

Brady when the league doesn't hand him a ring: Error. There is insufficient data to calculate these results.

Tuck Rule Game anyone?

I still don't understand why Woodson wasn't called for roughing the passer/facemask on the socalled 'tuck' play.
They might also call Brady for tripping and then the penalties would offset and the down replayed.