LWDT VI: Kropotkin's Bread Dead Redemption.

[Proctopeo]

We had carabiniers cavalry charge into protestors well into the sixties and it only came out of fashion because development of riot gear made heavily armored people on foot more efficient at breaking up crowds, so hé. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Again, it's unlikely that shit would go so bad they descend in the street in high numbers so it would be easy to frame that as dealing with dangerous radicals who had been breaking the law and thus endangering people in the first place.
The population more often than not dislike strikes and thus is reader to side against them.

Give a strike enough time and have it speak out frequently enough about legitimate grievances and people'll start siding with it more and more.

Nope, especially when a strike involves the temporary gutting of multiple necessary departments, at least in specific bits of the country (ie big cities).
The media after about a week (or even less!) will be abuzz with those who died in the ICU or ER as a result of the strike, as well as any local fires that have been ignored, and any crimes that could have been prevented had the PD not been understaffed etc.

[Torrocca]

Imagine talking down this much to people that'd happen to have legitimate grievances about something.

I'm sure this kinda smuggery would stick around if your local fire department or medical service personnel went on strike one day.



Counterpoint: the Civil Rights movement of the 1950s/1960s.

Not a counterpoint at all. Not all protests are strikes.
Moreover, equality for all races is more marketable an argument to make people swallow than just higher pay checks and shorter work hours.

Solution: make the strike about all workers' rights, not just the rights of those specific state employees.

Solution: destroy capitalism so those vital workers aren't shit on anymore.

Posturing and irrealistic proclamations is no solution at all.

Nah, it's a pretty good solution. Eradicate the profit incentive that ends up fucking over the working class of society so that the greedy few can profit and baddabing baddaboom the greater stresses of life, like long work hours and whatnot, go away.

[Salus Maior]

If they did that I'd hope the police or the military bring the boot down on them swiftly. A lot of bloody innocent people would get hurt and die because of a strike from those groups.

I honestly see no valid reason for those groups to ever deny services like that without being complete selfish assholes.

Solution: destroy capitalism so those vital workers aren't shit on anymore.

Capitalism being destroyed isn't going to make it so that everyone is treated fairly or get everything they want. That's just not the world we live in.

[Torrocca]

Give a strike enough time and have it speak out frequently enough about legitimate grievances and people'll start siding with it more and more.

Nope, especially when a strike involves the temporary gutting of multiple necessary departments, at least in specific bits of the country (ie big cities).
The media after about a week (or even less!) will be abuzz with those who died in the ICU or ER as a result of the strike, as well as any local fires that have been ignored, and any crimes that could have been prevented had the PD not been understaffed etc.

At least there'd be a real nice irony to doctors and nurses and firefighters being forced to work at gunpoint.

[Torrocca]

Solution: destroy capitalism so those vital workers aren't shit on anymore.

Capitalism being destroyed isn't going to make it so that everyone is treated fairly or get everything they want. That's just not the world we live in.

Bigger solution: destroy the state at the same time and create an Anarchy.

[Salus Maior]

Capitalism being destroyed isn't going to make it so that everyone is treated fairly or get everything they want. That's just not the world we live in.

Bigger solution: destroy the state at the same time and create an Anarchy.

Yeah, having no authority to defer to or laws will suddenly make the world abundant for everyone.

[Torrocca]

Bigger solution: destroy the state at the same time and create an Anarchy.

Yeah, having no authority to defer to or laws will suddenly make the world abundant for everyone.

FYI Anarchy =/= chaos :^)

[Aellex]

Solution: make the strike about all workers' rights, not just the rights of those specific state employees.

No one but political activists think General Strikes can be pulled nowadays in the West, let alone want them to happen to begin with; doubly so in that case since other don't want to be associated with the awfully bad communication that would come with it.

Nah, it's a pretty good solution. Eradicate the profit incentive that ends up fucking over the working class of society so that the greedy few can profit and baddabing baddaboom the greater stresses of life, like long work hours and whatnot, go away.

You're right. Dead men don't need to work, after all.

[Proctopeo]

Nope, especially when a strike involves the temporary gutting of multiple necessary departments, at least in specific bits of the country (ie big cities).
The media after about a week (or even less!) will be abuzz with those who died in the ICU or ER as a result of the strike, as well as any local fires that have been ignored, and any crimes that could have been prevented had the PD not been understaffed etc.

At least there'd be a real nice irony to doctors and nurses and firefighters being forced to work at gunpoint.

I think you're missing the point.

[Aellex]

Yeah, having no authority to defer to or laws will suddenly make the world abundant for everyone.

FYI Anarchy =/= chaos :^)

Indeed, Chaos can be positive because progress and change might arise from it when there is only stagnation and decadence in Anarchy.

[Torrocca]

Solution: make the strike about all workers' rights, not just the rights of those specific state employees.

No one but political activists think General Strikes can be pulled nowadays in the West, let alone want them to happen to begin with; doubly so in that case since other don't want to be associated with the awfully bad communication that would come with it.

Solution: organization.

Nah, it's a pretty good solution. Eradicate the profit incentive that ends up fucking over the working class of society so that the greedy few can profit and baddabing baddaboom the greater stresses of life, like long work hours and whatnot, go away.

You're right. Dead men don't need to work, after all.

Until the Capitalists unlock the key to Necromancy, of course. :^)

At least there'd be a real nice irony to doctors and nurses and firefighters being forced to work at gunpoint.

I think you're missing the point.

Nah, I know the media would spin it in a way that vilifies those who save lives and thus allow people to be more sympathetic to the idea of literally forcing those people to work at gunpoint.

[Torrocca]

FYI Anarchy =/= chaos :^)

Indeed, Chaos can be positive because progress and change might arise from it when there is only stagnation and decadence in Anarchy.

Entirely wrong :^)

[Aellex]

No one but political activists think General Strikes can be pulled nowadays in the West, let alone want them to happen to begin with; doubly so in that case since other don't want to be associated with the awfully bad communication that would come with it.

Solution: organization.

You're right. Dead men don't need to work, after all.

Until the Capitalists unlock the key to Necromancy, of course. :^)

I think you're missing the point.

Nah, I know the media would spin it in a way that vilifies those who save lives and thus allow people to be more sympathetic to the idea of literally forcing those people to work at gunpoint.

Again, posturing and grandstanding is no concrete solution at all.

Don't get me wrong, I've little love for Capitalists but I have even less for people whore eager to worsen the situation for no other reason than ideology.

[Proctopeo]

I think you're missing the point.

Nah, I know the media would spin it in a way that vilifies those who save lives and thus allow people to be more sympathetic to the idea of literally forcing those people to work at gunpoint.

But they'd be actively not saving lives at that point. No need to "spin" anything, although the media will anyway.

[Aellex]

Indeed, Chaos can be positive because progress and change might arise from it when there is only stagnation and decadence in Anarchy.

Entirely wrong :^)

Entirely right. There is no greater evil in the world than Anarchy nor is there one more loathed by mankind.

[Torrocca]

:lol2:

Entirely wrong :^)

Entirely right. There is no greater evil in the world than Anarchy nor is there one more loathed by mankind.

Aellex pls stahp this statist propaganda ;~;

Nah, I know the media would spin it in a way that vilifies those who save lives and thus allow people to be more sympathetic to the idea of literally forcing those people to work at gunpoint.

But they'd be actively not saving lives at that point. No need to "spin" anything, although the media will anyway.

Sure, but they'd be forced to get back to saving lives at the end of a rifle barrel afterward, anyway.

[Salus Maior]

Nah, I know the media would spin it in a way that vilifies those who save lives and thus allow people to be more sympathetic to the idea of literally forcing those people to work at gunpoint.

Those people who "save lives" who would be actively and intentionally rejecting that duty to save lives for personal gain in this scenario, you mean?

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

Torrocca,

What is a far-left centrist? That was the only category which didn't make sense to me.

[Proctopeo]

But they'd be actively not saving lives at that point. No need to "spin" anything, although the media will anyway.

Sure, but they'd be forced to get back to saving lives at the end of a rifle barrel afterward, anyway.

Or at the wrong end of an angry mob. Either way, it'd largely be justified given the consequences of their absence. Might even be some lawsuits and trials out of it.

[Aellex]

:lol2:
Entirely right. There is no greater evil in the world than Anarchy nor is there one more loathed by mankind.

Aellex pls stahp this statist propaganda ;~;

But they'd be actively not saving lives at that point. No need to "spin" anything, although the media will anyway.

Sure, but they'd be forced to get back to saving lives at the end of a rifle barrel afterward, anyway.

This is no propaganda, merely the simple truth. Anarchy is Evilness in its purest form.

[Salus Maior]

Sure, but they'd be forced to get back to saving lives at the end of a rifle barrel afterward, anyway.

That's what you get for being greedy at the expense of others.

[Torrocca]

Torrocca,

What is a far-left centrist? That was the only category which didn't make sense to me.

I was just using centrist as a way to denote someone who wouldn't ascribe themselves as either authoritarian or libertarian on the left side of the political compass.

Sure, but they'd be forced to get back to saving lives at the end of a rifle barrel afterward, anyway.

Or at the wrong end of an angry mob. Either way, it'd largely be justified given the consequences of their absence. Might even be some lawsuits and trials out of it.

Maybe, who knows?

On the other hand, state personnel have had successful strikes in the past, such as in Europe (IIRC there was a recent strike of firefighters in Belgium that went pretty well).

Nah, I know the media would spin it in a way that vilifies those who save lives and thus allow people to be more sympathetic to the idea of literally forcing those people to work at gunpoint.

Those people who "save lives" who would be actively and intentionally rejecting that duty to save lives for personal gain in this scenario, you mean?

Have you considered that they're people with needs too who shouldn't get fucked over just because they play a role in society so vital they can't realistically fight for their own rights?

[Torrocca]

Aellex pls stahp this statist propaganda ;~;



Sure, but they'd be forced to get back to saving lives at the end of a rifle barrel afterward, anyway.

This is no propaganda, merely the simple truth. Anarchy is Evilness in its purest form.

Nah, this is just straight-up propaganda.

Sure, but they'd be forced to get back to saving lives at the end of a rifle barrel afterward, anyway.

That's what you get for being greedy at the expense of others.

Like I said, the mechanizations of the state and capitalism continue to pit the working class against each other instead of uniting them against their real enemy.

[Salus Maior]

Have you considered that they're people with needs too who shouldn't get fucked over just because they play a role in society so vital they can't realistically fight for their own rights?

Then perhaps they should find a way to advocate for themselves in such a way that they're not going to kill innocent people in the process.

If their concerns are indeed valid they shouldn't have a hard time getting support for themselves.

[Aellex]

This is no propaganda, merely the simple truth. Anarchy is Evilness in its purest form.

Nah, this is just straight-up propaganda.

That's what you get for being greedy at the expense of others.

Like I said, the mechanizations of the state and capitalism continue to pit the working class against each other instead of uniting them against their real enemy.

Straight up truth. Propaganda is what makes you believe it to be otherwise.