LWDT VI: Kropotkin's Bread Dead Redemption.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

Strong unions are a good thing for the working class FYI ;^)

Unless you live in an open-shop (euphemized as "right-to-work") state, like I do. I belong to the largest Union in the U.S., (the higher-educational division of) the NEA, and we are still negotiating this year's contract (and working under last years's contract). Striking is against the law for state employees, so that is out of the picture. In short, open-shop states suck.

[Valgora]

Strong unions are a good thing for the working class FYI ;^)

Unless you live in an open-shop (euphemized as "right-to-work") state, like I do. I belong to the largest Union in the U.S., (the higher-educational division of) the NEA, and we are still negotiating this year's contract (and working under last years's contract). Striking is against the law for state employees, so that is out of the picture. In short, open-shop states suck.

Why the fuck is it illegal for state employees to strike? That's some major bullshit.
State employees should have the right to strike just like non-state workers.

[Firaxin]

Unless you live in an open-shop (euphemized as "right-to-work") state, like I do. I belong to the largest Union in the U.S., (the higher-educational division of) the NEA, and we are still negotiating this year's contract (and working under last years's contract). Striking is against the law for state employees, so that is out of the picture. In short, open-shop states suck.

Why the fuck is it illegal for state employees to strike? That's some major bullshit.
State employees should have the right to strike just like non-state workers.

They likely have incredibly important jobs that would cause a lot of harm if they didn't perform them.

[Valgora]

Why the fuck is it illegal for state employees to strike? That's some major bullshit.
State employees should have the right to strike just like non-state workers.

They likely have incredibly important jobs that would cause a lot of harm if they didn't perform them.

So the state sees that they are important and wants to limit their power knowing that a strike would have a major impact in the workers' favor?
Sounds about right.

But they should still have the right to strike.

[Torrocca]

Why the fuck is it illegal for state employees to strike? That's some major bullshit.
State employees should have the right to strike just like non-state workers.

They likely have incredibly important jobs that would cause a lot of harm if they didn't perform them.

Gee, that'd cause the easiest fucking turnaround in policy ever if they just... started striking. :^)

[Ostroeuropa]

Unless you live in an open-shop (euphemized as "right-to-work") state, like I do. I belong to the largest Union in the U.S., (the higher-educational division of) the NEA, and we are still negotiating this year's contract (and working under last years's contract). Striking is against the law for state employees, so that is out of the picture. In short, open-shop states suck.

Why the fuck is it illegal for state employees to strike? That's some major bullshit.
State employees should have the right to strike just like non-state workers.

Could be that state employees tend heavily toward one party, and so electing the other would mean perpetual strike action. Still disagree with it, though i'd say they can't have a state employee union, only specific sector unions.

[Torrocca]

Why the fuck is it illegal for state employees to strike? That's some major bullshit.
State employees should have the right to strike just like non-state workers.

Could be that state employees tend heavily toward one party, and so electing the other would mean perpetual strike action. Still disagree with it, though i'd say they can't have a state employee union, only specific sector unions.

Could be that the state is bullshit and just wanted another avenue to fuck over the working class.

[Aellex]

They likely have incredibly important jobs that would cause a lot of harm if they didn't perform them.

Gee, that'd cause the easiest fucking turnaround in policy ever if they just... started striking. :^)

Doctors, nurses, policemen, firemen, military, etc, striking means people dying.
The turn around would be there, yes, but not in favor of the strikers, especially if the strike isn't general.

[Torrocca]

Gee, that'd cause the easiest fucking turnaround in policy ever if they just... started striking. :^)

Doctors, nurses, policemen, firemen, military, etc, striking means people dying.
The turn around would be there, yes, but not in favor of the strikers, especially if the strike isn't general.

And then the people turning against the strikers would mean even more people end up dying.

Shame to say that rights (either civil rights or workers' rights) were never won without bloodshed, but it's true.

[Aellex]

And then the people turning against the strikers would mean even more people end up dying.

Shame to say that rights (either civil rights or workers' rights) were never won without bloodshed, but it's true.

Not, it means the military or military police being sent to break out the strikes, something they're going to succeed at, while the public opinion has been swayed against them.

[Uxupox]

Doctors, nurses, policemen, firemen, military, etc, striking means people dying.
The turn around would be there, yes, but not in favor of the strikers, especially if the strike isn't general.

And then the people turning against the strikers would mean even more people end up dying.

Shame to say that rights (either civil rights or workers' rights) were never won without bloodshed, but it's true.

MLK? Civil disobidience by Ghandi, the dissolution of the Soviet Union where upon the vast majority of the satellite states made a peaceful transition to another government?

[Torrocca]

And then the people turning against the strikers would mean even more people end up dying.

Shame to say that rights (either civil rights or workers' rights) were never won without bloodshed, but it's true.

Not, it means the military or military police being sent to break out the strikes, something they're going to succeed at, while the public opinion has been swayed against them.

Ah yes, I remember the stellar job the military did the last time it struck down an organized strike.

I'm sure the public would be enthralled to see doctors, nurses, EMTs, firefighters, or other soldiers getting gunned down or assaulted in the streets.

[Salus Maior]

Not, it means the military or military police being sent to break out the strikes, something they're going to succeed at, while the public opinion has been swayed against them.

Ah yes, I remember the stellar job the military did the last time it struck down an organized strike.

I'm sure the public would be enthralled to see doctors, nurses, EMTs, firefighters, or other soldiers getting gunned down or assaulted in the streets.

I'm sure the public would be thrilled to see the people who are supposed to be protecting them, basically saying "fuck you I need a better paycheck" while their relatives die from the lack of protection and service.

I'd certainly not be thrilled.

[Torrocca]

Ah yes, I remember the stellar job the military did the last time it struck down an organized strike.

I'm sure the public would be enthralled to see doctors, nurses, EMTs, firefighters, or other soldiers getting gunned down or assaulted in the streets.

I'm sure the public would be thrilled to see the people who are supposed to be protecting them, basically saying "fuck you I need a better paycheck" while their relatives die from the lack of protection and service.

I'd certainly not be thrilled.

Real big old shame that the government and capitalism continues to pit workers against each other and that those most affected by the strike wouldn't see what the real problem is, then.

[Proctopeo]

I'm sure the public would be thrilled to see the people who are supposed to be protecting them, basically saying "fuck you I need a better paycheck" while their relatives die from the lack of protection and service.

I'd certainly not be thrilled.

Real big old shame that the government and capitalism continues to pit workers against each other and that those most affected by the strike wouldn't see what the real problem is, then.

Technology?

[Torrocca]

Real big old shame that the government and capitalism continues to pit workers against each other and that those most affected by the strike wouldn't see what the real problem is, then.

Technology?

no u, actually :^)

[Aellex]

Ah yes, I remember the stellar job the military did the last time it struck down an organized strike.

I'm sure the public would be enthralled to see doctors, nurses, EMTs, firefighters, or other soldiers getting gunned down or assaulted in the streets.

We had carabiniers cavalry charge into protestors well into the sixties and it only came out of fashion because development of riot gear made heavily armored people on foot more efficient at breaking up crowds, so hé. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Again, it's unlikely that shit would go so bad they descend in the street in high numbers so it would be easy to frame that as dealing with dangerous radicals who had been breaking the law and thus endangering people in the first place.
The population more often than not dislike strikes and thus is reader to side against them.

[Torrocca]

Ah yes, I remember the stellar job the military did the last time it struck down an organized strike.

I'm sure the public would be enthralled to see doctors, nurses, EMTs, firefighters, or other soldiers getting gunned down or assaulted in the streets.

We had carabiniers cavalry charge into protestors well into the sixties and it only came out of fashion because development of riot gear made heavily armored people on foot more efficient at breaking up crowds, so hé. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Again, it's unlikely that shit would go so bad they descend in the street in high numbers so it would be easy to frame that as dealing with dangerous radicals who had been breaking the law and thus endangering people in the first place.
The population more often than not dislike strikes and thus is reader to side against them.

Give a strike enough time and have it speak out frequently enough about legitimate grievances and people'll start siding with it more and more.

[Aellex]

We had carabiniers cavalry charge into protestors well into the sixties and it only came out of fashion because development of riot gear made heavily armored people on foot more efficient at breaking up crowds, so hé. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Again, it's unlikely that shit would go so bad they descend in the street in high numbers so it would be easy to frame that as dealing with dangerous radicals who had been breaking the law and thus endangering people in the first place.
The population more often than not dislike strikes and thus is reader to side against them.

Give a strike enough time and have it speak out frequently enough about legitimate grievances and people'll start siding with it more and more.

Quite the contrary. The longer it last, the more people will be annoyed at the strikers for denying them services and the less ready they will be to listen to their grievances.
That's like the most basic about strikes, you want them as short as possible with as many people as you can. You're always losing in the waiting game.

[Salus Maior]

I'm sure the public would be thrilled to see the people who are supposed to be protecting them, basically saying "fuck you I need a better paycheck" while their relatives die from the lack of protection and service.

I'd certainly not be thrilled.

Real big old shame that the government and capitalism continues to pit workers against each other and that those most affected by the strike wouldn't see what the real problem is, then.

Yeah, it's a shame that everyone can't always get what they want. Probably should have learned that when they turned 6 or something.

[Torrocca]

Real big old shame that the government and capitalism continues to pit workers against each other and that those most affected by the strike wouldn't see what the real problem is, then.

Yeah, it's a shame that everyone can't always get what they want. Probably should have learned that when they turned 6 or something.

Imagine talking down this much to people that'd happen to have legitimate grievances about something.

I'm sure this kinda smuggery would stick around if your local fire department or medical service personnel went on strike one day.

Give a strike enough time and have it speak out frequently enough about legitimate grievances and people'll start siding with it more and more.

Quite the contrary. The longer it last, the more people will be annoyed at the strikers for denying them services and the less ready they will be to listen to their grievances.
That's like the most basic about strikes, you want them as short as possible with as many people as you can. You're always losing in the waiting game.

Counterpoint: the Civil Rights movement of the 1950s/1960s.

[Salus Maior]

Yeah, it's a shame that everyone can't always get what they want. Probably should have learned that when they turned 6 or something.

Imagine talking down this much to people that'd happen to have legitimate grievances about something.

I'm sure this kinda smuggery would stick around if your local fire department or medical service personnel went on strike one day.

If they did that I'd hope the police or the military bring the boot down on them swiftly. A lot of bloody innocent people would get hurt and die because of a strike from those groups.

I honestly see no valid reason for those groups to ever deny services like that without being complete selfish assholes.

[Torrocca]

Imagine talking down this much to people that'd happen to have legitimate grievances about something.

I'm sure this kinda smuggery would stick around if your local fire department or medical service personnel went on strike one day.

If they did that I'd hope the police or the military bring the boot down on them swiftly. A lot of bloody innocent people would get hurt and die because of a strike from those groups.

I honestly see no valid reason for those groups to ever deny services like that without being complete selfish assholes.

Solution: destroy capitalism so those vital workers aren't shit on anymore.

[Aellex]

Yeah, it's a shame that everyone can't always get what they want. Probably should have learned that when they turned 6 or something.

Imagine talking down this much to people that'd happen to have legitimate grievances about something.

I'm sure this kinda smuggery would stick around if your local fire department or medical service personnel went on strike one day.

Quite the contrary. The longer it last, the more people will be annoyed at the strikers for denying them services and the less ready they will be to listen to their grievances.
That's like the most basic about strikes, you want them as short as possible with as many people as you can. You're always losing in the waiting game.

Counterpoint: the Civil Rights movement of the 1950s/1960s.

Not a counterpoint at all. Not all protests are strikes.
Moreover, equality for all races is more marketable an argument to make people swallow than just higher pay checks and shorter work hours.

[Aellex]

If they did that I'd hope the police or the military bring the boot down on them swiftly. A lot of bloody innocent people would get hurt and die because of a strike from those groups.

I honestly see no valid reason for those groups to ever deny services like that without being complete selfish assholes.

Solution: destroy capitalism so those vital workers aren't shit on anymore.

Posturing and irrealistic proclamations is no solution at all.