NationStates

Posted: **Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:15 pm**

Pasong Tirad wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
White Nationalism and Neo-Naziism aren't identical. For one thing, White Nationalism does not harbor globally genocidal ambitions. It may harbor global empire and segregation ambitions, but that is qualitatively different.

America invaded the Phillipines and turned it into a vassal and exploited its workers for being non-whites while not wanting them to immigrate to the states and wanted them segregated in that sense away from the White Nation.
It didn't turn up and decide to industrially kill all of them and replace them with white people because they were genetically undesirable.

The paternalistic racism of the "little brown brother" aspect of White Man's Burden.

Look how you deal with Puerto Rico, Guam, and Samoa.

No doubt, but saying the two are identical is akin to saying assault and murder are identical.

Posted: **Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:32 pm**

Mardla wrote:
Reikoku wrote:
Wow. You're not even hiding it anymore.

I don't hide any of my views. That America was founded on white nationalism and has been white nationalist for most of its history, I will concede. To say it's been Hitlerite for most of its history, I will not concede.

Even during America's most racist time, it was still a democratic country and miles ahead of many other nations in terms of liberty.

Even Dylann Roof (the Charleston church shooter) said he'd prefer 1950s America to Nazi Germany.

Posted: **Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:33 pm**

Ostroeuropa wrote:White Nationalism and Neo-Naziism aren't identical. For one thing, White Nationalism does not harbor globally genocidal ambitions. It may harbor global empire and segregation ambitions, but that is qualitatively different.

That's not a requirement for someone to be considered a Nazi, and would disqualify all members of the NSDAP who died before the Nazis got around to the Final Solution.

Posted: **Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:34 pm**

Reminder that not all right-wing or nationalist authoritarianism is Nazism.

Posted: **Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:36 pm**

Bear Stearns wrote:Reminder that not all right-wing or nationalist authoritarianism is Nazism.

As someone who fanboys for the Kokuryūkai, I'm a few steps ahead of that.

Posted: **Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:40 pm**

Bear Stearns wrote:Reminder that not all right-wing or nationalist authoritarianism is Nazism.

True, but you're going to need a vat of sugar and a capacity-full reservoir of water to get that pill swallowed by our anarchist and libertarian communist friends.

Posted: **Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:57 pm**

Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:Reminder that not all right-wing or nationalist authoritarianism is Nazism.

True, but you're going to need a vat of sugar and a capacity-full reservoir of water to get that pill swallowed by our anarchist and libertarian communist friends.

Considering I've consistently argued against labeling numerous right-wing authoritarians (mostly Salazar and Franco) "fascist," I think it's safe to say that you're just heavily strawmanning rather than offering actual arguments why people who idolize Hitler and other NSDAP leaders aren't Nazis.

Posted: **Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:34 pm**

Reikoku wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:
True, but you're going to need a vat of sugar and a capacity-full reservoir of water to get that pill swallowed by our anarchist and libertarian communist friends.

Considering I've consistently argued against labeling numerous right-wing authoritarians (mostly Salazar and Franco) "fascist," I think it's safe to say that you're just heavily strawmanning rather than offering actual arguments why people who idolize Hitler and other NSDAP leaders aren't Nazis.

White nationalists in the US tend to be more populist, isolationist types rather than aggressive militarists.

Posted: **Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:38 pm**

Reikoku wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:
True, but you're going to need a vat of sugar and a capacity-full reservoir of water to get that pill swallowed by our anarchist and libertarian communist friends.

Considering I've consistently argued against labeling numerous right-wing authoritarians (mostly Salazar and Franco) "fascist," I think it's safe to say that you're just heavily strawmanning rather than offering actual arguments why people who idolize Hitler and other NSDAP leaders aren't Nazis.

Calling Salazar a "fascist" is basically the equivalent of holding an enormous flashing sign that says "I am politically illiterate".

Seriously, you gotta be a literal egg to call him a fascist.

Posted: **Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:38 pm**

Bear Stearns wrote:
Reikoku wrote:
Considering I've consistently argued against labeling numerous right-wing authoritarians (mostly Salazar and Franco) "fascist," I think it's safe to say that you're just heavily strawmanning rather than offering actual arguments why people who idolize Hitler and other NSDAP leaders aren't Nazis.

White nationalists in the US tend to be more populist, isolationist types rather than aggressive militarists.

I think it's the racism and support of ethnic cleansing that draws the entirely valid comparison.

Posted: **Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:43 pm**

Genivaria wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:
White nationalists in the US tend to be more populist, isolationist types rather than aggressive militarists.

I think it's the racism and support of ethnic cleansing that draws the entirely valid comparison.

Along with the hero worship of Hitler and Nazi Germany.

Posted: **Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:45 pm**

Bear Stearns wrote:
Reikoku wrote:
Considering I've consistently argued against labeling numerous right-wing authoritarians (mostly Salazar and Franco) "fascist," I think it's safe to say that you're just heavily strawmanning rather than offering actual arguments why people who idolize Hitler and other NSDAP leaders aren't Nazis.

White nationalists in the US tend to be more populist, isolationist types rather than aggressive militarists.

~~Aggressive militarism isn't the defining characteristic of fascism, though.~~ EDIT I AM WRONG SORRY, but-

American fascism wouldn't look like Blackshirts marching down Times Square and swastika armband-carrying white men establishing concentration camps.

Posted: **Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:45 pm**

Western Vale Confederacy wrote:
Reikoku wrote:
Considering I've consistently argued against labeling numerous right-wing authoritarians (mostly Salazar and Franco) "fascist," I think it's safe to say that you're just heavily strawmanning rather than offering actual arguments why people who idolize Hitler and other NSDAP leaders aren't Nazis.

Calling Salazar a "fascist" is basically the equivalent of holding an enormous flashing sign that says "I am politically illiterate".

Seriously, you gotta be a literal egg to call him a fascist.

Salazars system certainly fits as a related ideology to Fascism much like National Socialism is, whilst it lacked some things like glorification of war that the Italian and German systems had there were also a great deal of similarities.

Which isn't an inherently bad thing mind you, it's just what it is.

Posted: **Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:03 pm**

Mardla wrote:Class struggle isn't dualistic?

Class struggle is a way of eliminating the dualism of capitalism (capitalists vs. workers).

In other words, the point of a communist revolution isn't to reach an accommodation with capitalism. The idea is to destroy the capitalist world-system and to replace it with a better system.

Posted: **Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:05 pm**

Reikoku wrote:
Genivaria wrote:I think it's the racism and support of ethnic cleansing that draws the entirely valid comparison.

Along with the hero worship of Hitler and Nazi Germany.

I don't think most white nationalists do that. Rothbard, Gottfried and Hoppe are all more or less white nationalists, and definitely did no like Hitler. The fact is that most white nationalists aren't going to blatantly use to label because it would get them completely ostracized from work and academics. The ones who dgaf tend to be Hitlerites, because Hitlerites are often those with nothing to lose.

However the biggest threat today is unchecked immigration, so it seems silly to start some sort of crackdown on white nationalists.

Posted: **Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:14 pm**

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Western Vale Confederacy wrote:
Calling Salazar a "fascist" is basically the equivalent of holding an enormous flashing sign that says "I am politically illiterate".

Seriously, you gotta be a literal egg to call him a fascist.

Salazars system certainly fits as a related ideology to Fascism much like National Socialism is, whilst it lacked some things like glorification of war that the Italian and German systems had there were also a great deal of similarities.

Which isn't an inherently bad thing mind you, it's just what it is.

Salazar's implementation of corporatism (which isn't actually a bad ideology) may be a whiff similar to Italian fascism, but otherwise, his regime just really lacked most aspects of it.

One could say that Salazar was a pragmatic man, and totally not my political husbando.

Posted: **Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:15 pm**

Mardla wrote:However the biggest threat today is unchecked immigration, so it seems silly to start some sort of crackdown on white nationalists.

It's really not.

Posted: **Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:23 pm**

Mardla wrote:However the biggest threat today is unchecked immigration, so it seems silly to start some sort of crackdown on white nationalists.

IMO, one of the major threats of today, at least in the U.S., comes from nativists who are attempting to curb immigration.

Posted: **Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:26 pm**

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
Mardla wrote:Class struggle isn't dualistic?

Class struggle is a way of eliminating the dualism of capitalism (capitalists vs. workers).

In other words, the point of a communist revolution isn't to reach an accommodation with capitalism. The idea is to destroy the capitalist world-system and to replace it with a better system.

I know what dialectic is, but class struggle is definitely us vs them.

Posted: **Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:27 pm**

Pasong Tirad wrote:
Mardla wrote:However the biggest threat today is unchecked immigration, so it seems silly to start some sort of crackdown on white nationalists.

It's really not.

I personally don't want to live in a third world country.

Posted: **Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:27 pm**

Mardla wrote:
Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
Class struggle is a way of eliminating the dualism of capitalism (capitalists vs. workers).

In other words, the point of a communist revolution isn't to reach an accommodation with capitalism. The idea is to destroy the capitalist world-system and to replace it with a better system.

I know what dialectic is, but class struggle is definitely us vs them.

Us vs. them, because horseshoe theory.

Posted: **Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:32 pm**

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
Mardla wrote:However the biggest threat today is unchecked immigration, so it seems silly to start some sort of crackdown on white nationalists.

IMO, one of the major threats of today, at least in the U.S., comes from nativists who are attempting to curb immigration.

Of course, you are an advocate of treason and need people for your army. You consider a curb in immigration to be a threat to this.

Posted: **Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:34 pm**

Mardla wrote:
Pasong Tirad wrote:It's really not.

I personally don't want to live in a third world country.

"I personally don't want to be considered an inferior by mixing with a lesser race."

Posted: **Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:39 pm**

Pasong Tirad wrote:
Mardla wrote:I personally don't want to live in a third world country.

"I personally don't want to be considered an inferior by mixing with a lesser race."

On the contrary, I consider them superior races, which is why their deteriorating countries need them much more than we do.

Posted: **Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:40 pm**

Pasong Tirad wrote:
Mardla wrote:I personally don't want to live in a third world country.

"I personally don't want to be considered an inferior by mixing with a lesser race."

I mean, I personally believe in the theory that with generous amounts of interbreeding, humanity will eventually coalesce into a single united mixed race.

NationStates

LWDT VI: Kropotkin's Bread Dead Redemption.