LWDT VI: Kropotkin's Bread Dead Redemption.

[Grenartia]

I can't say I disagree with your reasons for leaving, though I'll say many have tried to leave this place, and few have succeeded.

NS is like the internet definition of Hotel California.
You can check out any time you want, but you can never leave.

Trust me, I've been saying that line about this place for years.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Well, I mean, if anything it's certainly a pretty good way of not getting STDs.

But that's neither an emotional nor 'moral' benefit. Besides, you can not get STDs while not being abstinent.

I mean, abstinence is certainly effective at preventing STIs and pregnancy with an astonishing 100% success rate compared to other methods which on average range from 95-99% (minuscule, but it IS still there).

But since we are humans, and humans tend to like having sex, abstinence has a tendency to fail very quickly once somebody gets horny enough that they just go "Oh f*ck it!".

[Grenartia]

But that's neither an emotional nor 'moral' benefit. Besides, you can not get STDs while not being abstinent.

I mean, abstinence is certainly effective at preventing STIs and pregnancy with an astonishing 100% success rate compared to other methods which on average range from 95-99% (minuscule, but it IS still there).

But since we are humans, and humans tend to like having sex, abstinence has a tendency to fail very quickly once somebody gets horny enough that they just go "Oh f*ck it!".

An important fact that proponents of abstinence conveniently forget.

Which is ironic, considering how many of them are anti-communist/socialist. They'll tuttingly lecture about how the "failure of communism" was that it "didn't take human nature into account", but then they unironically forget that very same human nature when they start talking about sexuality.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

I mean, abstinence is certainly effective at preventing STIs and pregnancy with an astonishing 100% success rate compared to other methods which on average range from 95-99% (minuscule, but it IS still there).

But since we are humans, and humans tend to like having sex, abstinence has a tendency to fail very quickly once somebody gets horny enough that they just go "Oh f*ck it!".

An important fact that proponents of abstinence conveniently forget.

Which is ironic, considering how many of them are anti-communist/socialist. They'll tuttingly lecture about how the "failure of communism" was that it "didn't take human nature into account", but then they unironically forget that very same human nature when they start talking about sexuality.

For once I can agree with you.

Abstinence is the communism of sexuality.

It works great on paper, but the human factor just tears it all down.

[Frievolk]

An important fact that proponents of abstinence conveniently forget.

Which is ironic, considering how many of them are anti-communist/socialist. They'll tuttingly lecture about how the "failure of communism" was that it "didn't take human nature into account", but then they unironically forget that very same human nature when they start talking about sexuality.

For once I can agree with you.

Abstinence is the communism of sexuality.

It works great on paper, but the human factor just tears it all down.

that's not true abstinence.


/s

[Western Vale Confederacy]

For once I can agree with you.

Abstinence is the communism of sexuality.

It works great on paper, but the human factor just tears it all down.

that's not true abstinence.


/s

Try to abstain from sex or masturbation for weeks on end, and I'll guarantee you that by the end of the first month, even a damn donut will look mighty appealing.

[Frievolk]

that's not true abstinence.


/s

Try to abstain from sex or masturbation for weeks on end, and I'll guarantee you that by the end of the first month, even a damn donut will look mighty appealing.

I can, and have, abstained from sex for about 7 years tho.
Then again, if they expect you to abstain from Sex and masturbation at the same time, that's too much.

[Dahon]

So there is a mod for Heart of Iron 4 called Antebellum which allows you to play as a Trotsky led soviet union (who I deposed in a party congress event chain). Currently, I have turned the Soviets into a loose anarcho-communist confederation of republics with a focus on global revolution, and no national identity. Suffice it to say the revolution will be civilized, and spread by love from mother bear.

You know what they say about simulations...

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Try to abstain from sex or masturbation for weeks on end, and I'll guarantee you that by the end of the first month, even a damn donut will look mighty appealing.

I can, and have, abstained from sex for about 7 years tho.
Then again, if they expect you to abstain from Sex and masturbation at the same time, that's too much.

And let's face it, some more "aggressive" defenders of the abstinence-first stance also tend to be more iffy about masturbation because it is somehow immoral.

Luckily, it ain't all doom and gloom, for most of the moderate abstinence-first peeps don't really care about you having a wank or rub.

[Frievolk]

I can, and have, abstained from sex for about 7 years tho.
Then again, if they expect you to abstain from Sex and masturbation at the same time, that's too much.

And let's face it, some more "aggressive" defenders of the abstinence-first stance also tend to be more iffy about masturbation because it is somehow immoral.

Luckily, it ain't all doom and gloom, for most of the moderate abstinence-first peeps don't really care about you having a wank or rub.

In my personal opinion, it should be illegal to teach people abstinence. Abstinence is not "sexual education", it's almost definitely the equivalent of teaching people "just don't do math until you're out of school" in the Math class. If a teacher tells you "just don't have sex", that teacher should be fired and not given a job in education for the rest of their life.
If you're gonna have a class for sexual education, you're gonna have to educate people about how to have safe sex. Birth control, Condoms, Contraceptives, etc. (more importantly, Go and get your check up regularly.) Telling people "just don't have sex until you're married lol" is harmful, especially if it's used in the place of actual sex education.
Oh, and telling people not to masturbate at all for whatever the fuck archaic reason is even worse.
But that's just my two cents.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

And let's face it, some more "aggressive" defenders of the abstinence-first stance also tend to be more iffy about masturbation because it is somehow immoral.

Luckily, it ain't all doom and gloom, for most of the moderate abstinence-first peeps don't really care about you having a wank or rub.

In my personal opinion, it should be illegal to teach people abstinence. Abstinence is not "sexual education", it's almost definitely the equivalent of teaching people "just don't do math until you're out of school" in the Math class. If a teacher tells you "just don't have sex", that teacher should be fired and not given a job in education for the rest of their life.
If you're gonna have a class for sexual education, you're gonna have to educate people about how to have safe sex. Birth control, Condoms, Contraceptives, etc. (more importantly, Go and get your check up regularly.) Telling people "just don't have sex until you're married lol" is harmful, especially if it's used in the place of actual sex education.
Oh, and telling people not to masturbate at all for whatever the fuck archaic reason is even worse.
But that's just my two cents.

I'd argue that abstinence deserves a brief honourable mention in sexual education class, but aside from that, you are basically right.

Sexual education is to teach people on how to have safe sex, not how to NOT have sex.

(And frankly, demonizing masturbation is just lunacy, because the effects of sexually repressed people are already well known).

[Dumb Ideologies]

Sex education certainly shouldn't leave kids ignorant about safe sex, a developed notion of consent etc. A tone of "ideally don't do this until your older" is sensible because the intense first hit of hormones often leads to bad decisions that get people in trouble, regardless of precautions. Discussion about the negative impacts of porn in acclimatising people to unrealistic and unhealthy sexual scenarios and increasing the chances of hyper fetishization whereby people aren't able to function sexually except in very specific situations, that's all part of what sex ed should do as well.

[Grenartia]

An important fact that proponents of abstinence conveniently forget.

Which is ironic, considering how many of them are anti-communist/socialist. They'll tuttingly lecture about how the "failure of communism" was that it "didn't take human nature into account", but then they unironically forget that very same human nature when they start talking about sexuality.

For once I can agree with you.

Abstinence is the communism of sexuality.

It works great on paper, but the human factor just tears it all down.

I mean, if you're talking purely about what the Soviets did and what their puppet states did, then I agree. But only in that limited context.

Try to abstain from sex or masturbation for weeks on end, and I'll guarantee you that by the end of the first month, even a damn donut will look mighty appealing.

I can, and have, abstained from sex for about 7 years tho.
Then again, if they expect you to abstain from Sex and masturbation at the same time, that's too much.

They almost always do expect abstinence from both simultaneously, because 95% of the "promote abstinence" camp are religious conservatives, who are generally anti-masturbation as well.

I can, and have, abstained from sex for about 7 years tho.
Then again, if they expect you to abstain from Sex and masturbation at the same time, that's too much.

And let's face it, some more "aggressive" defenders of the abstinence-first stance also tend to be more iffy about masturbation because it is somehow immoral.

Luckily, it ain't all doom and gloom, for most of the moderate abstinence-first peeps don't really care about you having a wank or rub.

In my experience, they do. They view as a gateway to sex.

And let's face it, some more "aggressive" defenders of the abstinence-first stance also tend to be more iffy about masturbation because it is somehow immoral.

Luckily, it ain't all doom and gloom, for most of the moderate abstinence-first peeps don't really care about you having a wank or rub.

In my personal opinion, it should be illegal to teach people abstinence. Abstinence is not "sexual education", it's almost definitely the equivalent of teaching people "just don't do math until you're out of school" in the Math class. If a teacher tells you "just don't have sex", that teacher should be fired and not given a job in education for the rest of their life.
If you're gonna have a class for sexual education, you're gonna have to educate people about how to have safe sex. Birth control, Condoms, Contraceptives, etc. (more importantly, Go and get your check up regularly.) Telling people "just don't have sex until you're married lol" is harmful, especially if it's used in the place of actual sex education.
Oh, and telling people not to masturbate at all for whatever the fuck archaic reason is even worse.
But that's just my two cents.

Fucking amen.

[Reikoku]

You should be nicer to your countrymen.

If anything, you have to live under their bad decisions, so if anything, you should be harsher.

They have intentions at least as noble as yours in most cases.

I'm sure that they believe in what they advocate, though if that makes their intentions "noble," then it would be impossible to criticize just about any political movement.

[Libertarian Communist Planets]

Your definition is factually and academically wrong tho.

According to ...?

[Libertarian Communist Planets]

In my personal opinion, it should be illegal to teach people abstinence. Abstinence is not "sexual education", it's almost definitely the equivalent of teaching people "just don't do math until you're out of school" in the Math class. If a teacher tells you "just don't have sex", that teacher should be fired and not given a job in education for the rest of their life.

Illegal? Isn't that taking it too far? There is a difference between teaching people about abstinence and encouraging it.

[Frievolk]

In my personal opinion, it should be illegal to teach people abstinence. Abstinence is not "sexual education", it's almost definitely the equivalent of teaching people "just don't do math until you're out of school" in the Math class. If a teacher tells you "just don't have sex", that teacher should be fired and not given a job in education for the rest of their life.

Illegal? Isn't that taking it too far? There is a difference between teaching people about abstinence and encouraging it.

Teaching people Abstinence is different than teaching people about abstinence.
"There are some weirdos who think you shouldn't have sex until you marry" is different than "don't have sex until you marry"
The first is factual, informative. The second is harmful.

[Pasong Tirad]

Illegal? Isn't that taking it too far? There is a difference between teaching people about abstinence and encouraging it.

Teaching people Abstinence is different than teaching people about abstinence.
"There are some weirdos who think you shouldn't have sex until you marry" is different than "don't have sex until you marry"
The first is factual, informative. The second is harmful.

There's nothing wrong with telling kids "Hey, look, if you don't want to have sex until you get married, that's fine, too, I guess. It probably won't happen, but if you want to try it there's nothing wrong with it."

[Firaxin]

Illegal? Isn't that taking it too far? There is a difference between teaching people about abstinence and encouraging it.

Teaching people Abstinence is different than teaching people about abstinence.
"There are some weirdos who think you shouldn't have sex until you marry" is different than "don't have sex until you marry"
The first is factual, informative. The second is harmful.

Dont make them an out group. Rather it should be, "Some people argue that it is immoral to have sex before marriage. [List arguments and then list counterarguments.] Decide for yourself if you agree or disagree."

[Frievolk]

Teaching people Abstinence is different than teaching people about abstinence.
"There are some weirdos who think you shouldn't have sex until you marry" is different than "don't have sex until you marry"
The first is factual, informative. The second is harmful.

There's nothing wrong with telling kids "Hey, look, if you don't want to have sex until you get married, that's fine, too, I guess. It probably won't happen, but if you want to try it there's nothing wrong with it."

That's not teaching people abstinence. That's teaching about abstinence.
But I do find even that wrong. You shouldn't encourage people not to have sex until they get married. That's wrong. (In my opinion)

Teaching people Abstinence is different than teaching people about abstinence.
"There are some weirdos who think you shouldn't have sex until you marry" is different than "don't have sex until you marry"
The first is factual, informative. The second is harmful.

Dont make them an out group. Rather it should be, "Some people argue that it is immoral to have sex before marriage. [List arguments and then list counterarguments.] Decide for yourself if you agree or disagree."

I don't find anything wrong with that, but that's not teaching people abstinence. That's teaching them about abstinence.

[Proctopeo]

I can't say I disagree with your reasons for leaving, though I'll say many have tried to leave this place, and few have succeeded.

NS is like the internet definition of Hotel California.
You can check out any time you want, but you can never leave.

I've found that true about lots of sites. You will come back eventually.

[Fahran]

Because institutional discrimination refers to the powerful systematically discriminating against the relatively powerless in particular social institutions. Since men are not a disempowered category, I would call their treatment in prison sentencing discrimination but not institutional discrimination.

Men are actually quite dis-empowered in the court room. Everyone is in some measure. Beyond mounting a defense, the defendant must hope for a favorable verdict from the jurors and for a favorable sentence from the judge in the event that the first does not occur. Your definition is so narrow as to exclude important considerations from the discourse because they do not align with a deeply flawed model for considering society. Additionally, it does not align with the mainstream and academic definitions I've heard outside of lecture halls where the professors had a very open and decided set of biases.

[Frievolk]

Because institutional discrimination refers to the powerful systematically discriminating against the relatively powerless in particular social institutions. Since men are not a disempowered category, I would call their treatment in prison sentencing discrimination but not institutional discrimination.

Men are actually quite dis-empowered in the court room. Everyone is in some measure. Beyond mounting a defense, the defendant must throw hope for a favorable verdict from the jurors and for a favorable sentence from the judge in the event that the first does not occur. Your definition is so narrow as to exclude important considerations from the discourse because they do not align with a deeply flawed model for considering society. Additionally, it does not align with the mainstream and academic definitions I've heard outside of lecture halls where the professors had a very open and decided set of biases.

His definition itself isn't necessarily wrong. It's that it fails to recognize that discrimination isn't universally done by the same gender on the others in all cases (i.e. men are almost universally discriminated against in almost any situation regarding domestic or sexual abuse and assault)

[Fahran]

His definition itself isn't necessarily wrong.

It's narrower than the commonly accepted definition. Society and multiple institutions discriminating against a particular group is functionally the same regardless of where they fall on the oppression/privilege pyramid, especially when the model in question often appears to resort to circular or axiomatic reasoning. In this context, discrimination is literally built into our culture and institutions as a result of patriarchy, misogyny, and the myopia of many feminists.

It's that it fails to recognize that discrimination isn't universally done by the same gender on the others in all cases (i.e. men are almost universally discriminated against in almost any situation regarding domestic or sexual abuse and assault)

In essence, it's far too rigid and is probably deliberately too rigid.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

Dont make them an out group. Rather it should be, "Some people argue that it is immoral to have sex before marriage. [List arguments and then list counterarguments.] Decide for yourself if you agree or disagree."

Sounds reasonable.