LWDT VI: Kropotkin's Bread Dead Redemption.

[Farnhamia]

On the subject of right-wing trolls coming into the LWDT from earlier, I actually rarely post or lurk on RWDT but I post on LWDT a lot, despite being right-leaning on the whole.

Obvs a troll. /s

While appreciating your use of "/s" to indicate you're not being serious, that post did get reported. It's not easy to discern intent on a text-based platform, don't you know.

[Thermodolia]

That's awfully authoritarian of you.

That literally makes no sense. You are calling one of the bedrocks of libertarian Marxism authoritarian.

Libertarianism is absolutely bullshit. Libertarian Marxism is a made up ideology that should have gone the way of Rosa Luxembourg

[Dumb Ideologies]

That literally makes no sense. You are calling one of the bedrocks of libertarian Marxism authoritarian.

Libertarianism is absolutely bullshit. Libertarian Marxism is a made up ideology that should have gone the way of Rosa Luxembourg

Violence against the old orders and restrictions on their liberty are necessary evils in any ideology of radical transformation because opponents will not simply pack up and capitulate if you turn up and say you're in charge now. Often "libertarian" only signifies an intention for the purges to follow a more decentralised model. arising more organically from grassroot sentiment. The line differentiating between "libertarian Marxism" and "anarcho-communism" is largely one of words rather than of deeds.

[Torrocca]

>Implying Western civilization ever deserved to exist in the first place

lel

Disgusting and shameful. Your ingratitude at the civilisation that lets you hold your bullshit beliefs rather than send you to prison for them is duly noted.

My beliefs could've (and actually did, historically speaking) cropped up in other places besides "the west". :3

>Implying Western civilization ever deserved to exist in the first place

lel

I'm going to have to disagree here, western civilization was the gateway to the left wing in the first place, besides eastern civilization isn't better by any value. In fact why even use "western" or "eastern" civilization, the west has little in common other than being to the west.

Neither deserve to exist as concepts.

[Aellex]

My beliefs could've (and actually did, historically speaking) cropped up in other places besides "the west". :3

Oh? Such as?
Also, daily reminder that the Lois Scélérates were too kind on anarchists. :^)

[Torrocca]

My beliefs could've (and actually did, historically speaking) cropped up in other places besides "the west". :3

Oh? Such as?

The earliest anarchist themes can be found in the 6th century BC among the works of Taoist philosopher Laozi[42] and in later centuries by Zhuangzi and Bao Jingyan.[43] Zhuangzi's philosophy has been described by various sources as anarchist.[44] Zhuangzi wrote: "A petty thief is put in jail. A great brigand becomes a ruler of a Nation".[45] :^)

Also, daily reminder that the Lois Scélérates were too kind on anarchists. :^)

Insurrectionary Anarchists paint a bad name on other Anarchists :^)

[Aellex]

The earliest anarchist themes can be found in the 6th century BC among the works of Taoist philosopher Laozi[42] and in later centuries by Zhuangzi and Bao Jingyan.[43] Zhuangzi's philosophy has been described by various sources as anarchist.[44] Zhuangzi wrote: "A petty thief is put in jail. A great brigand becomes a ruler of a Nation".[45] :^)

You're gonna hurt your arm pulling like that. ;p

Insurrectionary Anarchists paint a bad name on other Anarchists :^)

Yeah, they're too honest on what Anarchy is and entails. ;^)

[Torrocca]

The earliest anarchist themes can be found in the 6th century BC among the works of Taoist philosopher Laozi[42] and in later centuries by Zhuangzi and Bao Jingyan.[43] Zhuangzi's philosophy has been described by various sources as anarchist.[44] Zhuangzi wrote: "A petty thief is put in jail. A great brigand becomes a ruler of a Nation".[45] :^)

You're gonna hurt your arm pulling like that. ;p

Nah.

Insurrectionary Anarchists paint a bad name on other Anarchists :^)

Yeah, they're too honest on what Anarchy is and entails. ;^)

Or maybe you ought to read some books by Anarchist philosophers before you continue peddling this bullshit line that it's evil? :^)

[Proctopeo]

Yeah, they're too honest on what Anarchy is and entails. ;^)

Or maybe you ought to read some books by Anarchist philosophers before you continue peddling this bullshit line that it's evil? :^)

You act as if reading books on things will convert your opponents to your side.

[Aellex]

Or maybe you ought to read some books by Anarchist philosophers before you continue peddling this bullshit line that it's evil? :^)

I don't need to read Mein Kampf to know Nazism is evil anymore than I need to read books by anarchists """philosophers""" to conclude the same about it.

[Torrocca]

Or maybe you ought to read some books by Anarchist philosophers before you continue peddling this bullshit line that it's evil? :^)

You act as if reading books on things will convert your opponents to your side.

Not trying to convert Aellex to my side tbh.

Or maybe you ought to read some books by Anarchist philosophers before you continue peddling this bullshit line that it's evil? :^)

I don't need to read Mein Kampf to know Nazism is evil anymore than I need to read books by anarchists """philosophers""" to conclude the same about it.

>unironically comparing Anarchism to Nazism

Holy shit this is such a fucking meme of an argument you're making at this point.

[Frievolk]

The earliest anarchist themes can be found in the 6th century BC among the works of Taoist philosopher Laozi[42] and in later centuries by Zhuangzi and Bao Jingyan.[43] Zhuangzi's philosophy has been described by various sources as anarchist.[44] Zhuangzi wrote: "A petty thief is put in jail. A great brigand becomes a ruler of a Nation".[45] :^)

You're gonna hurt your arm pulling like that. ;p

Insurrectionary Anarchists paint a bad name on other Anarchists :^)

Yeah, they're too honest on what Anarchy is and entails. ;^)

I mean, the same can be said about almost any ideology (and their "let's get our hands dirty" school of thought)

[Proctopeo]

You act as if reading books on things will convert your opponents to your side.

Not trying to convert Aellex to my side tbh.

Regardless, what would reading books by anarchist propagandists "philosophers" accomplish?

I don't need to read Mein Kampf to know Nazism is evil anymore than I need to read books by anarchists """philosophers""" to conclude the same about it.

>unironically comparing Anarchism to Nazism

Holy shit this is such a fucking meme of an argument you're making at this point.

Ah, I see you're using the "you said the notsees" way to weasel out of an argument. Clever.

[Aellex]

I mean, the same can be said about almost any ideology (and their "let's get our hands dirty" school of thought)

There is "let's get our hand dirty" and "let's rob people and throw bombs because that way it will free people somehow".

>unironically comparing Anarchism to Nazism

Holy shit this is such a fucking meme of an argument you're making at this point.

Both end up with lots of people deads, collapse of society itself and everyone being worse off than they were prior to it happening.
Sure, that result happens because of different reason but the fact that it happened because that ideology did makes it quite blatantly evil.

[Valrifell]

Let's not forget that the current order didn't exactly come about peacefully.

[Torrocca]

Not trying to convert Aellex to my side tbh.

Regardless, what would reading books by anarchist propagandists "philosophers" accomplish?

An understanding of what you're debating against, which Aellex needs considering he tends to think that petty kings and nobility in a time after the fall of the WRE constitute Anarchism.

>unironically comparing Anarchism to Nazism

Holy shit this is such a fucking meme of an argument you're making at this point.

Ah, I see you're using the "you said the notsees" way to weasel out of an argument. Clever.

Because it's unironically a stupid comparison that has literally no basis whatsoever in logic or reality to anyone who has even an inkling of knowledge of Nazism and Anarchism.

>unironically comparing Anarchism to Nazism

Holy shit this is such a fucking meme of an argument you're making at this point.

Both end up with lots of people deads, collapse of society itself and everyone being worse off than they were prior to it happening.

Oh, boy, here we go with yet another fundamental misunderstanding of Anarchism as an ideology.

In most cases, Anarchist societies don't end up killing people. Anarchism does not entail the collapse of society. Most certainly, Anarchism cannot be compared to Nazism, a reactionary ideology, as it is firstly and most fundamentally a revolutionary ideology. Anarchism doesn't advocate for a fucking genocide of minorities and the supremacy of one race, unlike Nazism. Anarchy is pro-democracy, Nazism is anti-democracy.

I can go on.

Sure, that result happens because of different reason but the fact that it happened because that ideology did makes it quite blatantly evil.

"AnArChY iS eViL!!1!" and 101 More Hilarious Jokes You Can Tell Your Friends.

[Proctopeo]

Regardless, what would reading books by anarchist propagandists "philosophers" accomplish?

An understanding of what you're debating against, which Aellex needs considering he tends to think that petty kings and nobility in a time after the fall of the WRE constitute Anarchism.

You think, for some reason, some long-dead philosophers saying things that sound vaguely anarchist out of context constitutes anarchism.
Aellex thinking anarchy = anarchism is more reasonable than that tbh

Ah, I see you're using the "you said the notsees" way to weasel out of an argument. Clever.

Because it's unironically a stupid comparison that has literally no basis whatsoever in logic or reality to anyone who has even an inkling of knowledge of Nazism and Anarchism.

His point was solid, though: you don't need to read books that put the ideology in the best light/act as its origin to have good reason to see said ideology as evil.

[Aellex]

Regardless, what would reading books by anarchist propagandists "philosophers" accomplish?

An understanding of what you're debating against, which Aellex needs considering he tends to think that petty kings and nobility in a time after the fall of the WRE constitute Anarchism.

Anarchy. Not Anarchism. And it indeed does because the first thing that follow Anarchy is Warlords rising to fill the power vacuum as people need something, anything, to make up for the State that has disappeared.

Oh, boy, here we go with yet another fundamental misunderstanding of Anarchism as an ideology.

In most cases, Anarchist societies don't end up killing people. Anarchism does not entail the collapse of society. Most certainly, Anarchism cannot be compared to Nazism, a reactionary ideology, as it is firstly and most fundamentally a revolutionary ideology. Anarchism doesn't advocate for a fucking genocide of minorities and the supremacy of one race, unlike Nazism. Anarchy is pro-democracy, Nazism is anti-democracy.

I can go on.

Again, you may bitch about it all you want but the end result of both remain the same and it indeed is countless amount of death and the collapse of society. The latter is literally a pre-requisite for what you want for fuck's sake and good luck getting it while avoiding the former!

"AnArChY iS eViL!!1!" and 101 More Hilarious Jokes You Can Tell Your Friends.

I suppose the truth is the funniest thing one can tell some times. :^)

[Torrocca]

An understanding of what you're debating against, which Aellex needs considering he tends to think that petty kings and nobility in a time after the fall of the WRE constitute Anarchism.

You think, for some reason, some long-dead philosophers saying things that sound vaguely anarchist out of context constitutes anarchism.
Aellex thinking anarchy = anarchism is more reasonable than that tbh

Bread Santa's assessment of those long-dead philosophers also agrees that they had Anarchist principles, tbf.

Because it's unironically a stupid comparison that has literally no basis whatsoever in logic or reality to anyone who has even an inkling of knowledge of Nazism and Anarchism.

His point was solid, though: you don't need to read books that put the ideology in the best light/act as its origin to have good reason to see said ideology as evil.

But on the other hand, you actually need a good reason to see an ideology as evil. Genociding millions in the name of ideology markedly makes said ideology evil. Advocating for a non-hierarchical democracy doesn't make the other one evil.

[Torrocca]

An understanding of what you're debating against, which Aellex needs considering he tends to think that petty kings and nobility in a time after the fall of the WRE constitute Anarchism.

Anarchy. Not Anarchism. And it indeed does because the first thing that follow Anarchy is Warlords rising to fill the power vacuum as people need something, anything, to make up for the State that has disappeared.

Chaos, not Anarchy. Anarchy still means, "no rulers". Warlords constitute as rulers. :^)

Oh, boy, here we go with yet another fundamental misunderstanding of Anarchism as an ideology.

In most cases, Anarchist societies don't end up killing people. Anarchism does not entail the collapse of society. Most certainly, Anarchism cannot be compared to Nazism, a reactionary ideology, as it is firstly and most fundamentally a revolutionary ideology. Anarchism doesn't advocate for a fucking genocide of minorities and the supremacy of one race, unlike Nazism. Anarchy is pro-democracy, Nazism is anti-democracy.

I can go on.

Again, you may bitch about it all you want but the end result of both remain the same and it indeed is countless amount of death and the collapse of society. The latter is literally a pre-requisite for what you want for fuck's sake and good luck getting it while avoiding the former!

Holy shit, I guess the numerous voluntarily, peacefully formed Anarchist societies and communities literally never happened or anything lmao.

Also, societal collapse sure as fucking shit isn't a pre-requisite for Anarchism, and neither is countless slaughter; that's so fucking ahistorical that it completely misses the numerous cases of Anarchism where neither things ever happened. Seriously, pick up a fucking book, because I'm getting done explaining this to you again and again while all you do is spout the same lock-and-step, "Anarchy is evil! Anarchy is warlordism!" without a single actual thought into the political science and philosophy behind Anarchist thought and theory.

"AnArChY iS eViL!!1!" and 101 More Hilarious Jokes You Can Tell Your Friends.

I suppose the truth is the funniest thing one can tell some times. :^)

Propaganda is never the truth. :^)

[Proctopeo]

You think, for some reason, some long-dead philosophers saying things that sound vaguely anarchist out of context constitutes anarchism.
Aellex thinking anarchy = anarchism is more reasonable than that tbh

Bread Santa's assessment of those long-dead philosophers also agrees that they had Anarchist principles, tbf.

Quite frankly I don't give a damn about what "Bread Santa" believes.

But on the other hand, you actually need a good reason to see an ideology as evil. Genociding millions in the name of ideology markedly makes said ideology evil. Advocating for a non-hierarchical democracy doesn't make the other one evil.

Evil is a broad concept, and highly subjective at that.
An argument could easily be made for anarchism being evil, just a different evil from Nazism.

Anarchy. Not Anarchism. And it indeed does because the first thing that follow Anarchy is Warlords rising to fill the power vacuum as people need something, anything, to make up for the State that has disappeared.

Chaos, not Anarchy. Anarchy still means, "no rulers". Warlords constitute as rulers. :^)

He said that warlords are a product of anarchy, not a part of it.

[Loben]

So a person who gloated about the deaths of priests and nuns also hates the west?

Color me shook.

[Torrocca]

Bread Santa's assessment of those long-dead philosophers also agrees that they had Anarchist principles, tbf.

Quite frankly I don't give a damn about what "Bread Santa" believes.

Bread Santa's ideas are pretty important to Anarchism as a whole, so him recognizing the beliefs of ancient philosophers as Anarchistic in nature does lend credence to the idea that they held Anarchist principles.

[Proctopeo]

Quite frankly I don't give a damn about what "Bread Santa" believes.

Bread Santa's ideas are pretty important to Anarchism as a whole, so him recognizing the beliefs of ancient philosophers as Anarchistic in nature does lend credence to the idea that they held Anarchist principles.

I'd wager that he dug to find anything to grant his nonsense some legitimacy instead of what you said tbqh

[Torrocca]

So a person who gloated about the deaths of priests and nuns also hates the west?

I never did that. :^)

Bread Santa's ideas are pretty important to Anarchism as a whole, so him recognizing the beliefs of ancient philosophers as Anarchistic in nature does lend credence to the idea that they held Anarchist principles.

I'd wager that he dug to find anything to grant his nonsense some legitimacy instead of what you said tbqh

Doubtful.