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LWDT VI: Kropotkin's Bread Dead Redemption.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which Form of Leftism is The Best?

Left-Libertarianism
125
55%
Yes
66
29%
Left-Authoritarianism
37
16%
 
Total votes : 228

User avatar
Proctopeo
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12370
Founded: Sep 26, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Proctopeo » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:46 pm

Crysuko wrote:I'm sorry to be steryotypical but I have 0, absolute 0 qualms about rightists of any flavour being de-platformed, silenced and made to feel afraid.

At least you're fully honest about your authoritarianism. Have you cleaned your shrine to Vladimir Lenin recently?
Now,
Image

Torrocca wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:I mean, sure, but if I went with that line of thinking I'd have to suppress you too.
As much fun as that might be you're more useful alive and free than alive and in a political prison.


Ah, yeah, because I'm totally an authoritarian douchebag with a hinge for genociding kulaks and shit. :roll:

Not every authoritarian communist is literally Stalin

you're closer to Khrushchev than anything
Arachno-anarchism || NO GODS NO MASTERS || Free NSG Odreria

User avatar
LiberNovusAmericae
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6942
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:46 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Yusseria wrote:Censorship is an inherently authoritarian tactic. You're literally using authoritarianism to shut down authoritarians, yet you lack the self-awareness to realize this.


Fam, there's a reason it's called the PARADOX of Intolerance.

Not arresting someone for speech is not the same as tolerating it though. While neo-Nazis have the right to speak in the U.S. they are kicked off social media platforms, condemned by the media, and can be denied service by payment processors. That is not tolerance of abhorrent ideas.

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27785
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:46 pm

Proctopeo wrote:
Crysuko wrote:I'm sorry to be steryotypical but I have 0, absolute 0 qualms about rightists of any flavour being de-platformed, silenced and made to feel afraid.

At least you're fully honest about your authoritarianism. Have you cleaned your shrine to Vladimir Lenin recently?
Now,
Image

Torrocca wrote:
Ah, yeah, because I'm totally an authoritarian douchebag with a hinge for genociding kulaks and shit. :roll:

Not every authoritarian communist is literally Stalin

you're closer to Khrushchev than anything


>AnCom
>Close to Khrushchev

Gimme that grenade real quick, I need it after the amount of disgust I'm feeling.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

User avatar
Greater Westralia
Envoy
 
Posts: 227
Founded: Nov 13, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Greater Westralia » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:47 pm

Torrocca wrote:No, actually.

My paltry attempt at humour
^
^
^
^
^
^
^
^
Your head.
Unapologetic WA Supremacist

We did it once, we'll do it again!

User avatar
Pasong Tirad
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11943
Founded: May 31, 2007
Democratic Socialists

Postby Pasong Tirad » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:48 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Fam, there's a reason it's called the PARADOX of Intolerance.

Not arresting someone for speech is not the same as tolerating it though. While neo-Nazis have the right to speak in the U.S. they are kicked off social media platforms, condemned by the media, and can be denied service by payment processors. That is not tolerance of abhorrent ideas.

Good, we should do that then. Egg the fuckers and boo them off the stage.
Last edited by Pasong Tirad on Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Proctopeo
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12370
Founded: Sep 26, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Proctopeo » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:48 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:At least you're fully honest about your authoritarianism. Have you cleaned your shrine to Vladimir Lenin recently?
Now,
(Image)


Not every authoritarian communist is literally Stalin

you're closer to Khrushchev than anything


>AnCom
>Close to Khrushchev

Gimme that grenade real quick, I need it after the amount of disgust I'm feeling.

You'll follow someone far worse than yourself but end up following in much of his footsteps regardless, including the suppression of revolts for being "reactionary" and "actually headed by Robot Hitler, you guys!" and then get removed from the official history book post-mortem.
Arachno-anarchism || NO GODS NO MASTERS || Free NSG Odreria

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27785
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:48 pm

Greater Westralia wrote:
Torrocca wrote:No, actually.

My paltry attempt at humour
^
^
^
^
^
^
^
^
Your head.


Oh, that was humor? I don't find it funny to be accused of advocating murder, much, myself.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

User avatar
Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7452
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:48 pm

Proctopeo wrote:
Crysuko wrote:I'm sorry to be steryotypical but I have 0, absolute 0 qualms about rightists of any flavour being de-platformed, silenced and made to feel afraid.

At least you're fully honest about your authoritarianism. Have you cleaned your shrine to Vladimir Lenin recently?
Now,
Image

Torrocca wrote:
Ah, yeah, because I'm totally an authoritarian douchebag with a hinge for genociding kulaks and shit. :roll:

Not every authoritarian communist is literally Stalin

you're closer to Khrushchev than anything

best I can describe my ideology is with a Kaiserreich reference. Totalism, which is basically just a more hardline and authoritarian bend on Syndicalism.
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Official thread euthanologist
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27785
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:50 pm

Proctopeo wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
>AnCom
>Close to Khrushchev

Gimme that grenade real quick, I need it after the amount of disgust I'm feeling.

You'll follow someone far worse than yourself but end up following in much of his footsteps regardless, including the suppression of revolts for being "reactionary" and "actually headed by Robot Hitler, you guys!" and then get removed from the official history book post-mortem.


I'm dying, and it's from Laughteritis. This is a very funny joke, Proct. Please, tell us more.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

User avatar
Uiiop
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8155
Founded: Jun 20, 2012
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Uiiop » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:50 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Fam, there's a reason it's called the PARADOX of Intolerance.

Not arresting someone for speech is not the same as tolerating it though. While neo-Nazis have the right to speak in the U.S. they are kicked off social media platforms, condemned by the media, and can be denied service by payment processors. That is not tolerance of abhorrent ideas.

To play devil's advocate aren't all those practically state-like entities(Maybe not individually but as a whole) with state capitalism being what it is?
#NSTransparency

User avatar
LiberNovusAmericae
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6942
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:50 pm

Pasong Tirad wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Not arresting someone for speech is not the same as tolerating it though. While neo-Nazis have the right to speak in the U.S. they are kicked off social media platforms, condemned by the media, and can be denied service by payment processors. That is not tolerance of abhorrent ideas.

Good, we should do that then. Egg the fuckers and boo them off the stage.

I have no qualms about that as long as it stays strictly that.

User avatar
First American Empire
Diplomat
 
Posts: 816
Founded: Mar 12, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby First American Empire » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:50 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:It doesn't have to so down to Stalinist levels of oppression to be problematic. Under the UK's hate speech laws, YouTuber Count Dankula got arrested over a stupid joke.


Count Dankula only had to pay an £800 fine, which he more than made up for with increased viewership due to the controversy. He should have been sent to jail for a short time.
The American Empire is a socially progressive absolute monarchy run by the heirs of Emperor Norton. It started off at MT but has rapidly advanced to PMT through interdimensional travel. All NSstats are used, except for tax rate and population. Factbooks are currently under reconstruction.

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27785
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:51 pm

Welcome to page 500, comrades. It's been a long time coming. :3
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

User avatar
Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7452
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:51 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Fam, there's a reason it's called the PARADOX of Intolerance.

While neo-Nazis have the right to speak in the U.S. they are kicked off social media platforms, condemned by the media, and can be denied service by payment processors. .

good.
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Official thread euthanologist
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

User avatar
LiberNovusAmericae
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6942
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:52 pm

First American Empire wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:It doesn't have to so down to Stalinist levels of oppression to be problematic. Under the UK's hate speech laws, YouTuber Count Dankula got arrested over a stupid joke.


Count Dankula only had to pay an £800 fine, which he more than made up for with increased viewership due to the controversy. He should have been sent to jail for a short time.

Over a fucking joke, really?

User avatar
Byzconia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1515
Founded: Nov 01, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Byzconia » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:52 pm

Yusseria wrote:
Greater Westralia wrote:If we censor Nazis and fascists, we ought to censor Stalinists, Maoists and other dictatorship-apologists.

Their rhetoric is a few steps down from Nazism but supports and enables violence nevertheless.

Now, now. Mao may have killed 45 million people, but at least he wasn't a Nazi!

Joke's on you, I'm completely fine with censoring them, too.

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Byzconia wrote:Given that plenty of Western democracies have implemented hate speech laws and have yet to descend into Stalinist repression, this borders on a slippery slope fallacy.

It doesn't have to so down to Stalinist levels of oppression to be problematic. Under the UK's hate speech laws, YouTuber Count Dankula got arrested over a stupid joke.

Isn't that the dude who made his dog do a Nazi salute? Yeah, no, fuck that guy. "Hahaha, I'm gonna make my dog do the salute of a regime that murdered millions of people and caused one of the deadliest wars in human history! What a silly joke, I'm so funny!"

Excuse me for not being a teenage edgelord, but I don't find the systematic murder of millions of people based on their "race" (as well as religious and political beliefs) to be particularly fucking funny.
Democratic Socialist Republic of Byzconia: a post-colonial Francophone African nation currently undergoing authoritarian backsliding, set in a world where the Eastern Bloc liberalized rather than collapsing.

User avatar
Pasong Tirad
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11943
Founded: May 31, 2007
Democratic Socialists

Postby Pasong Tirad » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:52 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Pasong Tirad wrote:Good, we should do that then. Egg the fuckers and boo them off the stage.

I have no qualms about that as long as it stays strictly that.

Guess I should have tempered my own posts. No, I'd like to retract my statement of "censor the authoritarians." De-platforming them and getting people to de-associate with them and making it as unprofitable as possible for companies to be linked to them is acceptable, short of actually censoring and imprisoning them (which I don't actually advocate).

User avatar
Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7452
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:53 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
First American Empire wrote:
Count Dankula only had to pay an £800 fine, which he more than made up for with increased viewership due to the controversy. He should have been sent to jail for a short time.

Over a fucking joke, really?

literal nazism. he should hang for it.

/s
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Official thread euthanologist
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

User avatar
Yusseria
Minister
 
Posts: 2342
Founded: Feb 02, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Yusseria » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:53 pm

Pasong Tirad wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Not arresting someone for speech is not the same as tolerating it though. While neo-Nazis have the right to speak in the U.S. they are kicked off social media platforms, condemned by the media, and can be denied service by payment processors. That is not tolerance of abhorrent ideas.

Good, we should do that then. Egg the fuckers and boo them off the stage.

Assaulting people doesn't seem to be a good way to handle things.
Yusseria - The Prussia of NationStates
There is nothing wrong with Islamaphobia

User avatar
LiberNovusAmericae
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6942
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:53 pm

Crysuko wrote:I'm sorry to be steryotypical but I have 0, absolute 0 qualms about rightists of any flavour being de-platformed, silenced and made to feel afraid.

If that's your attitude, some of us mainstream right wingers should make you feel afraid.

User avatar
First American Empire
Diplomat
 
Posts: 816
Founded: Mar 12, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby First American Empire » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:53 pm

Torrocca wrote:Welcome to page 500, comrades. It's been a long time coming. :3


Could you pick something Antifa-related for the next thread title?
The American Empire is a socially progressive absolute monarchy run by the heirs of Emperor Norton. It started off at MT but has rapidly advanced to PMT through interdimensional travel. All NSstats are used, except for tax rate and population. Factbooks are currently under reconstruction.

User avatar
Pasong Tirad
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11943
Founded: May 31, 2007
Democratic Socialists

Postby Pasong Tirad » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:53 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
First American Empire wrote:
Count Dankula only had to pay an £800 fine, which he more than made up for with increased viewership due to the controversy. He should have been sent to jail for a short time.

Over a fucking joke, really?

Maybe we should agree to move past the "It's just a meme" thing? Because it's really not "just a meme."

User avatar
Greater Westralia
Envoy
 
Posts: 227
Founded: Nov 13, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Greater Westralia » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:53 pm

Torrocca wrote:Oh, that was humor? I don't find it funny to be accused of advocating murder, much, myself.

Yeah sorry, it was just rude and in poor taste.
Unapologetic WA Supremacist

We did it once, we'll do it again!

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27785
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:54 pm

Yusseria wrote:
Pasong Tirad wrote:Good, we should do that then. Egg the fuckers and boo them off the stage.

Assaulting people doesn't seem to be a good way to handle things.


Eggs are as deadly as the AntiFA Bike-Locks of Mass Destruction!

First American Empire wrote:
Torrocca wrote:Welcome to page 500, comrades. It's been a long time coming. :3


Could you pick something Antifa-related for the next thread title?


I have something much better in mind, actually. ;)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27785
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:54 pm

Greater Westralia wrote:
Torrocca wrote:Oh, that was humor? I don't find it funny to be accused of advocating murder, much, myself.

Yeah sorry, it was just rude and in poor taste.


No worries just, y'know, let's not do that again, yeah?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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