LWDT VI: Kropotkin's Bread Dead Redemption.

[Free African Union]

Using force to establish a new revolutionary land is justified, especially in the face of a system that is violent towards the most oppressed.

How is it justified? How does establishing your utopia justify violence on a massive scale? And what makes establishing your utopia through violence a better idea than establishing your utopia peacefully?

The same revolutionary violence that has allowed capitalists to become the new elite over most societies. If it wasn't for the French Revolution, most of them would be where they once were. The same revolutionary violence that created the United States. The only place in which it was "peaceful" was the United Kingdom and even then there was a lot of civil strife and turmoil. The UK is the outlier not the norm. So was India*.

*India actually saw a lot of violence in its push for independence and the final catalyst was the realization that many elements of the British Indian Army and British Indian Navy were on the verge of open revolt after the end of WW2.

[Kubra]

How is it justified? How does establishing your utopia justify violence on a massive scale? And what makes establishing your utopia through violence a better idea than establishing your utopia peacefully?

The same revolutionary violence that has allowed capitalists to become the new elite over most societies. If it wasn't for the French Revolution, most of them would be where they once were. The same revolutionary violence that created the United States. The only place in which it was "peaceful" was the United Kingdom and even then there was a lot of civil strife and turmoil. The UK is the outlier not the norm. So was India*.

*India actually saw a lot of violence in its push for independence and the final catalyst was the realization that many elements of the British Indian Army and British Indian Navy were on the verge of open revolt after the end of WW2.

it was peaceful in Denmark, if you don't count their little war with the germans.
I ain't got a dog in this race here, just wanted to point out Denmark.

[The South Falls]

People who don't want to give up their power don't allow voting.

I mean, but how representative is democracy really?

Proportional voting comes to mind.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

People who don't want to give up their power don't allow voting.

I mean, but how representative is democracy really?

Representative enough, Could be a lot better, but it does the job more often than not.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

No they aren't. They're revolutions.

Well, we have a different view of revolution.

[Kubra]

Using force to establish a new revolutionary land is justified, especially in the face of a system that is violent towards the most oppressed.

How is it justified? How does establishing your utopia justify violence on a massive scale? And what makes establishing your utopia through violence a better idea than establishing your utopia peacefully?

when differences are irreconcilable, they will eventually come to blows, and politics by other means occurs.
I ain't here to say violence is the answer, but yknow politics is often violent.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

How is it justified? How does establishing your utopia justify violence on a massive scale? And what makes establishing your utopia through violence a better idea than establishing your utopia peacefully?

when differences are irreconcilable, they will eventually come to blows, and politics by other means occurs.
I ain't here to say violence is the answer, but yknow politics is often violent.

No difference is so irreconcilable that we can't accept it. We need to learn to accept each other's differences, it's the only way we'll live in harmony. I AM here to say violence is never the answer.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

How is it justified? How does establishing your utopia justify violence on a massive scale? And what makes establishing your utopia through violence a better idea than establishing your utopia peacefully?

The same revolutionary violence that has allowed capitalists to become the new elite over most societies. If it wasn't for the French Revolution, most of them would be where they once were. The same revolutionary violence that created the United States. The only place in which it was "peaceful" was the United Kingdom and even then there was a lot of civil strife and turmoil. The UK is the outlier not the norm. So was India*.

*India actually saw a lot of violence in its push for independence and the final catalyst was the realization that many elements of the British Indian Army and British Indian Navy were on the verge of open revolt after the end of WW2.

The occurence of a liberal order arriving through violence does not discount the possiblity of a liberal order arriving peacefully, as you yourself admitted. Therefore, nor is the possibility of a Socialist order arriving peacefully discounted.

[Dumb Ideologies]

I mean, but how representative is democracy really?

Representative enough, Could be a lot better, but it does the job more often than not.

It's only representative in the sense that the competitors ritualistically invoke the name of the people. The entire industry is mass psychological manipulation. It sets false limits on the possible and extracts formulaic statements of consent on the misleading basis that the window of socioeconomic possibility offered by the candidates is all that there is.

It doesn't represent a natural consensus, it constantly works to create that consensus by systematically denigrating anything outside. As the game is inherently stacked in favour of the most powerful interest groups with the best propaganda machinery, the results cannot be meaningfully representative.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Representative enough, Could be a lot better, but it does the job more often than not.

It's only representative in the sense that the competitors ritualistically invoke the name of the people. The entire industry is mass psychological manipulation. It sets false limits on the possible and extracts formulaic statements of consent on the misleading basis that the window of socioeconomic possibility offered by the candidates is all that there is.

It doesn't represent a natural consensus, it constantly works to create that consensus by systematically denigrating anything outside. As the game is inherently stacked in favour of the most powerful interest groups with the best propaganda machinery, the results cannot be meaningfully representative.

That's actually an extremely good point that I have no argument against.

[Kowani]

when differences are irreconcilable, they will eventually come to blows, and politics by other means occurs.
I ain't here to say violence is the answer, but yknow politics is often violent.

No difference is so irreconcilable that we can't accept it. We need to learn to accept each other's differences, it's the only way we'll live in harmony. I AM here to say violence is never the answer.

Well, you can maintain your idealism. Sometimes, violence is the answer, both in self-defense and violence.

[Kubra]

when differences are irreconcilable, they will eventually come to blows, and politics by other means occurs.
I ain't here to say violence is the answer, but yknow politics is often violent.

No difference is so irreconcilable that we can't accept it. We need to learn to accept each other's differences, it's the only way we'll live in harmony. I AM here to say violence is never the answer.

well let's have an example.
PayPal me 200 bucks, pls.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

No difference is so irreconcilable that we can't accept it. We need to learn to accept each other's differences, it's the only way we'll live in harmony. I AM here to say violence is never the answer.

well let's have an example.
PayPal me 200 bucks, pls.

Huh?

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

well let's have an example.
PayPal me 200 bucks, pls.

Huh?

They just gave proof that violence is the ONLY answer

[Kubra]

Huh?

They just gave proof that violence is the ONLY answer

lol well not exactly
That's just a very obvious example of an irreconcilable conflict: me asking for money for no reason

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

lol well not exactly
That's just a very obvious example of an irreconcilable conflict: me asking for money for no reason

Given that you have Great Leader Posadas in your sig you are correct.

[Uxupox]

lol well not exactly
That's just a very obvious example of an irreconcilable conflict: me asking for money for no reason

Given that you have Great Leader Posadas in your sig you are correct.

The greatest yankee catcher ever.

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

The greatest yankee catcher ever.

No, he always enjoyed a nice game of nuclear football.

[Kubra]

lol well not exactly
That's just a very obvious example of an irreconcilable conflict: me asking for money for no reason

Given that you have Great Leader Posadas in your sig you are correct.

well you lot don't want nuclear war and I do
How do we compromise?

[Dialectical metaRealism]

Yusseria's got a point. "MetaRealism sounds like the name of a joke philosophy.

You can take that up with the the late distinguished professor (University of London) Roy Bhaskar.

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

well you lot don't want nuclear war and I do
How do we compromise?

Nuke all dictators but not their people.

[Proctopeo]

Yusseria's got a point. "MetaRealism sounds like the name of a joke philosophy.

You can take that up with the the late distinguished professor (University of London) Roy Bhaskar.

I'd fight a corpse over political theory any day.
Hell, I'd even dig up Locke, RoboCop him, and have him duke it out with Bhaskar in a Roman-style arena.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Yusseria's got a point. "MetaRealism sounds like the name of a joke philosophy.

You can take that up with the the late distinguished professor (University of London) Roy Bhaskar.

In the interests of neutrality, other incoherently-rambling schizophrenics are available.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

They just gave proof that violence is the ONLY answer

lol well not exactly
That's just a very obvious example of an irreconcilable conflict: me asking for money for no reason

Then I can just say "no." No need for violence.

[United Muscovite Nations]

lol well not exactly
That's just a very obvious example of an irreconcilable conflict: me asking for money for no reason

Then I can just say "no." No need for violence.

Unless he tries to take it from you.