LWDT VI: Kropotkin's Bread Dead Redemption.

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

They keep finding new ways to rebrand communism under even stupider names.

Who is they? Are you othering me? And why do you assume that dialectical metaRealism is an attempt to rebrand communism?

It is actually a poor attempt to spell dialectical materialism

[Dialectical metaRealism]

It is actually a poor attempt to spell dialectical materialism

Actually, it is not. It refers to Roy Bhaskar's dialectical critical realism and philosophy of metaReality.

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

It is actually a poor attempt to spell dialectical materialism

Actually, it is not. It refers to Roy Bhaskar's dialectical critical realism and philosophy of metaReality.

I should improve my jokes.

[Dialectical metaRealism]

I should improve my jokes.

You didn't use an emoji, so I did not know you were joking.

[Proctopeo]

>implying anyone actually knows anything about Marx

>implying everyone hasn't read the first volume of Capital: a Critique of Political Economy and the Communist Manifesto unless Marx didn't write them

not only did Marx not right them, he never even existed in the first place

[Torrocca]

>implying everyone hasn't read the first volume of Capital: a Critique of Political Economy and the Communist Manifesto unless Marx didn't write them

not only did Marx not right them, he never even existed in the first place

He left them instead

[Yusseria]

They keep finding new ways to rebrand communism under even stupider names.

Who is they? Are you othering me? And why do you assume that dialectical metaRealism is an attempt to rebrand communism?

Because it's literally just communism under a different name, similarly to libertarian socialism.

[Dialectical metaRealism]

Because it's literally just communism under a different name, similarly to libertarian socialism.

No, I call libertarian communism libertarian communism. Roy Bhaskar's philosophy is a metatheory.

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

not only did Marx not right them, he never even existed in the first place

True, but my reptile commanders told me not to tell them that.

[Valrifell]

What, another anti-communist who doesn't know shit about Marx?

>implying anyone actually knows anything about Marx

Fair play.

[Valrifell]

They keep finding new ways to rebrand communism under even stupider names.

Who is they? Are you othering me? And why do you assume that dialectical metaRealism is an attempt to rebrand communism?

It's like he knows that dialectical materialism is, but doesn't realize it's a Marxist philosophy invented by Karl Marx himself and essentially the core of the concept of the class struggle.

[Proctopeo]

not only did Marx not right them, he never even existed in the first place

He left them instead

Like a burning bag of manure on humanity's doorstep, yes

>implying anyone actually knows anything about Marx

Fair play.

Marx is a fictional character, after all, and one the author hasn't told much about.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Who is they? Are you othering me? And why do you assume that dialectical metaRealism is an attempt to rebrand communism?

It's like he knows that dialectical materialism is, but doesn't realize it's a Marxist philosophy invented by Karl Marx himself and essentially the core of the concept of the class struggle.

Maybe it's the core concept of the Marxist class struggle but maybe not a core concept of other schools of Socialism.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

It is actually a poor attempt to spell dialectical materialism

Actually, it is not. It refers to Roy Bhaskar's dialectical critical realism and philosophy of metaReality.

Yusseria's got a point. "MetaRealism sounds like the name of a joke philosophy.

[Ostroeuropa]

It's like he knows that dialectical materialism is, but doesn't realize it's a Marxist philosophy invented by Karl Marx himself and essentially the core of the concept of the class struggle.

Maybe it's the core concept of the Marxist class struggle but maybe not a core concept of other schools of Socialism.

This. Marx based his concept of Marxism on witnessing that when the working classes had agency, economic and political power, they moved in ways that was socialistic and supported socialist models. He took this to mean that it was natural and inevitable rather than simply a political calculation by those workers and blah blah.

This is also where the Soviets went wrong because of Marx. They went in for Vanguardism and so on because of Marx and his absurd views on what constitutes the interests of the working class (Something nobody is qualified to determine except them, as individuals, in a naturally arising consensus). Compare/contrast socialist schools which conclude that giving workers agency and so on leads to them advancing their interests and this in and of itself is the end goal, much like the liberals and their "Freedom is the end goal" mindset. There doesn't need to be some grand project that legalizing weed will deliver us to down the road.

Marx prescribes a particular way workers should act based on what he thinks of as in their interests and waffles about how the abolition of class is the end point, and it is from this arrogance that the authoritarian tendencies of communists and the far-left arise, the presumption to instruct others on what is best for them and how their agency must be utilized to be "legitimate".

Personally I am a socialist who views providing workers agency as the end point. What they do with it is their business. I can quite see that the workers should have the power to install a communist society if they so choose. But they almost certainly wont, and no amount of marxists screaming that they have to or they're evil should be convincing to them.

A marxist is like a liberal who tells people that if we legalize drugs it stands to reason we must all inevitably smoke pot and chill out, thus bringing about a hippie utopia, and then decides to go around shouting at people who don't want to use their freedom that way and dogwhistling violence against them.

Give the workers control over their companies. That's it. That is the end goal. That is the terminus point. Liberty and agency, not equality, and not communism.

[Valrifell]

It's like he knows that dialectical materialism is, but doesn't realize it's a Marxist philosophy invented by Karl Marx himself and essentially the core of the concept of the class struggle.

Maybe it's the core concept of the Marxist class struggle but maybe not a core concept of other schools of Socialism.

Yeah, sure, but Marx is one of the more important socialist/communist thinkers considering he coined a lot of the terms used by proponents of his philosophy and ideology.

So, the fact remains that dialectical materialism (which I assume was the concept in question and not the actual thing of dialectical metaRealism [whatever that is]) has always been rooted with socialist and communist thinkers and isn't a "rebranding" of the ideology.

[Valrifell]

Liberty and agency, not equality, and not communism.

My official stance is that if we try really hard we can have all of those things.

[Ostroeuropa]

Liberty and agency, not equality, and not communism.

My official stance is that if we try really hard we can have all of those things.

Equality is not in many peoples interests and necessitates a restriction of their own agency.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Maybe it's the core concept of the Marxist class struggle but maybe not a core concept of other schools of Socialism.

Yeah, sure, but Marx is one of the more important socialist/communist thinkers considering he coined a lot of the terms used by proponents of his philosophy and ideology.

So, the fact remains that dialectical materialism (which I assume was the concept in question and not the actual thing of dialectical metaRealism [whatever that is]) has always been rooted with socialist and communist thinkers and isn't a "rebranding" of the ideology.

I don't believe anyone said that it was a re-branding, only that dialectical MetaRealism was.

[Valrifell]

Yeah, sure, but Marx is one of the more important socialist/communist thinkers considering he coined a lot of the terms used by proponents of his philosophy and ideology.

So, the fact remains that dialectical materialism (which I assume was the concept in question and not the actual thing of dialectical metaRealism [whatever that is]) has always been rooted with socialist and communist thinkers and isn't a "rebranding" of the ideology.

I don't believe anyone said that it was a re-branding, only that dialectical MetaRealism was.

My assumption was that it was being confused with the legitimately Marxist term.

EDIT: Yes, I am now acknowledging that I am tragically wrong.

[Valrifell]

My official stance is that if we try really hard we can have all of those things.

Equality is not in many peoples interests and necessitates a restriction of their own agency.

It requires more apathy and a different mindset.

We'd have to try really really hard. That entails just, you know, irreversibly altering the zeitgeist of society. Which, you know, isn't impossible nor does it necessarily have to be forceful.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Nonviolent revolutions are not revolutions. They are concessions.

Nonviolent revolutions are most certainly revolutions.

Leftist: "Nonviolent revolutions are revolutions!"

Other leftist: "No they are not."

Leftism: Civil War

[Torrocca]

Nonviolent revolutions are most certainly revolutions.

Leftist: "Nonviolent revolutions are revolutions!"

Other leftist: "No they are not."

Leftism: Civil War

More like: Leftism: Civil Disagreement.

We're actually more united than your right-wing chums would goad you into believing. :^)

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Leftist: "Nonviolent revolutions are revolutions!"

Other leftist: "No they are not."

Leftism: Civil War

More like: Leftism: Civil Disagreement.

We're actually more united than your right-wing chums would goad you into believing. :^)

The CNT-FAI and the Spanish Communist Party would beg to differ.

So do the Bolsheviks and Mensheviks, Bolsheviks and Left-SRs, etc...

[Torrocca]

More like: Leftism: Civil Disagreement.

We're actually more united than your right-wing chums would goad you into believing. :^)

The CNT-FAI and the Spanish Communist Party would beg to differ.

So do the Bolsheviks and Mensheviks, Bolsheviks and Left-SRs, etc...

"Some groups who violently turned against each other nearly/over a hundred years ago means that leftists today are perpetually at war with each other!!1!"