LWDT VI: Kropotkin's Bread Dead Redemption.

[Pasong Tirad]

I mean, have you seen ND's previous comments on Pinochet?

No. What are they?

Searching mentions of Pinochet on the LWDT will help you out. It's basically "Yeah I condemn his violent actions but hey you know he dismantled socialism and reformed the economy so good job brutal dictator."

[Autarkheia]

I didn't see it was possible to search within a thread. Thanks.

It's basically "Yeah I condemn his violent actions but hey you know he dismantled socialism and reformed the economy so good job brutal dictator."

Okay, Milton Friedman.

[Northern Davincia]

I didn't see it was possible to search within a thread. Thanks.

It's basically "Yeah I condemn his violent actions but hey you know he dismantled socialism and reformed the economy so good job brutal dictator."

Okay, Milton Friedman.

Daily reminder that Milton Friedman was a hero.

No. What are they?

Searching mentions of Pinochet on the LWDT will help you out. It's basically "Yeah I condemn his violent actions but hey you know he dismantled socialism and reformed the economy so good job brutal dictator."

This is one of the few times that I align with neoliberals.

[Ostroeuropa]

A university expelled a student for hugging someone of the opposite sex recently, sexist ideologies hateful and fearful of a genders sexuality to such an extent they see it in every banal action they do are rampant by this point.

https://tinyurl.com/y7xnmpz2

[Pasong Tirad]

I didn't see it was possible to search within a thread. Thanks.
Okay, Milton Friedman.

Daily reminder that Milton Friedman was a hero.

Searching mentions of Pinochet on the LWDT will help you out. It's basically "Yeah I condemn his violent actions but hey you know he dismantled socialism and reformed the economy so good job brutal dictator."

This is one of the few times that I align with neoliberals.

Proof of the libertarian to alt-right pipeline.

[Autarkheia]

Daily reminder that Milton Friedman was a hero.

He was an ideologue who seemed like a basically decent guy except for his support of mass murder.

Universal basic income is a good idea though.

[Ostroeuropa]

Daily reminder that Milton Friedman was a hero.

He was an ideologue who seemed like a basically decent guy except for his support of mass murder.

Universal basic income is a good idea though.

To be "fair", within the context of the cold war against a violently expansionist state with an ideology that usually resulted in the murder of millions and totalitarian oppression wherever it took root, and especially in the context of a cold war ensuing after world war two where diplomacy failed and the consensus arose that violence should have been used to contain violence, it becomes a lot more understandable to support US imperialism. Especially if you buy into the notion that capitalist dictatorship and oppression is transitional, rather than a permanent state of affairs and the goal itself.

It's more a matter of "Doing the wrong things for the right reasons" and HARD MEN, HARD DECISIONS than active evil and malice and so on. It's about deciding some people are expendable and a little evil is necessary for a greater good. It's a common symptom of those who have power attempting to excercise that power in pursuit of some abstract goal.

When all of humanity is on the line, what do a few people matter?

This dynamic is also exactly what went wrong with the Soviets ofcourse. They don't "want" pinochet, but they'll tolerate them because they're too focused on the threat to liberty in front of them to notice the threat they are bolstering.

Confronted on this and demand whether they believe violence, dictatorship, and oppression are more efficient they'd say no. But the disconnect comes between asking them this and then asking "So why support it in Pinochets case compared to a democracy?".

[Northern Davincia]

Daily reminder that Milton Friedman was a hero.

This is one of the few times that I align with neoliberals.

Proof of the libertarian to alt-right pipeline.

Pinochet was neoliberal so...

Daily reminder that Milton Friedman was a hero.

He was an ideologue who seemed like a basically decent guy except for his support of mass murder.

Universal basic income is a good idea though.

Approving of economic reform =/= support of mass murder

[Luminesa]

A university expelled a student for hugging someone of the opposite sex recently, sexist ideologies hateful and fearful of a genders sexuality to such an extent they see it in every banal action they do are rampant by this point.

https://tinyurl.com/y7xnmpz2

And it was a flipping marriage proposal, too...dang.

[Autarkheia]

Pinochet was neoliberal so...

Economically he was. He was also an authoritarian and the alt-right love him. Yet to right-libertarians, his economics are somehow the only important thing.

Approving of economic reform =/= support of mass murder

By endorsing Pinochet you and him are endorsing mass murder. There is no way around it. If you don't like it, then don't support Pinochet.

[Northern Davincia]

Pinochet was neoliberal so...

Economically he was. He was also an authoritarian and the alt-right love him. Yet to right-libertarians, his economics are somehow the only important thing.

Approving of economic reform =/= support of mass murder

By endorsing Pinochet you and him are endorsing mass murder. There is no way around it. If you don't like it, then don't support Pinochet.

That's as nonsensical as believing that support for Thomas Jefferson equals support of slavery.

[Autarkheia]

That's as nonsensical as believing that support for Thomas Jefferson equals support of slavery.

It's more like supporting Lenin because you're a socialist. The Founding Fathers having slaves was hypocritical and wrong obviously, but it wasn't integral to what they did. Pinochet and Lenin though could not have done what they did without being dictators.

[Northern Davincia]

That's as nonsensical as believing that support for Thomas Jefferson equals support of slavery.

It's more like supporting Lenin because you're a socialist. The Founding Fathers having slaves was hypocritical and wrong obviously, but it wasn't integral to what they did. Pinochet and Lenin though could not have done what they did without being dictators.

The dictatorship part isn't the issue. Lee Kuan Yew was a benevolent dictator in comparison to Pinochet.

[Pasong Tirad]

It's more like supporting Lenin because you're a socialist. The Founding Fathers having slaves was hypocritical and wrong obviously, but it wasn't integral to what they did. Pinochet and Lenin though could not have done what they did without being dictators.

The dictatorship part isn't the issue. Lee Kuan Yew was a benevolent dictator in comparison to Pinochet.

See the supporters of dictators always turn to Lee Kuan Yew, oddly enough forgetting that Lee Kuan Yew is the anomaly and not the norm to dictatorships, and for every LKY you have a dozen Pinochets.

[Orostan]

I didn't see it was possible to search within a thread. Thanks.
Okay, Milton Friedman.

Daily reminder that Milton Friedman was a hero.

Searching mentions of Pinochet on the LWDT will help you out. It's basically "Yeah I condemn his violent actions but hey you know he dismantled socialism and reformed the economy so good job brutal dictator."

This is one of the few times that I align with neoliberals.

>this post

Milton Friedman was a bourgeois economist who was wrong on almost everything. He also backed US imperialism because "muh freedumz" or some stupid shit.

Economically he was. He was also an authoritarian and the alt-right love him. Yet to right-libertarians, his economics are somehow the only important thing.
By endorsing Pinochet you and him are endorsing mass murder. There is no way around it. If you don't like it, then don't support Pinochet.

That's as nonsensical as believing that support for Thomas Jefferson equals support of slavery.

It does though. If you were to travel back in time and vote for him, you'd be voting for slavery. You can like his economic policies but still not ever want to vote for him, but that still means you like slavery.

Proof of the libertarian to alt-right pipeline.

Pinochet was neoliberal so...

He was an ideologue who seemed like a basically decent guy except for his support of mass murder.

Universal basic income is a good idea though.

Approving of economic reform =/= support of mass murder

>implying Pinoshit's economic 'reform' wasn't mass murder

By approving of Pinoshit's economic policy you imply that it was only possible by establishing a dictatorship to remove popular and democratically elected president Allende. As soon as you realize that most people do not like neoliberalism and that it won't ever be voted or voluntarily installed in if the people know what they are voting for, you will become a fascist.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Daily reminder that Milton Friedman was a hero.

This is one of the few times that I align with neoliberals.

>this post

Milton Friedman was a bourgeois economist who was wrong on almost everything. He also backed US imperialism because "muh freedumz" or some stupid shit.

That's as nonsensical as believing that support for Thomas Jefferson equals support of slavery.

It does though. If you were to travel back in time and vote for him, you'd be voting for slavery. You can like his economic policies but still not ever want to vote for him, but that still means you like slavery.

Pinochet was neoliberal so...

Approving of economic reform =/= support of mass murder

>implying Pinoshit's economic 'reform' wasn't mass murder

By approving of Pinoshit's economic policy you imply that it was only possible by establishing a dictatorship to remove popular and democratically elected president Allende. As soon as you realize that most people do not like neoliberalism and that it won't ever be voted or voluntarily installed in if the people know what they are voting for, you will become a fascist.

Hilariously enough, I'd rather become a fascist than a neoliberal.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

>this post

Milton Friedman was a bourgeois economist who was wrong on almost everything. He also backed US imperialism because "muh freedumz" or some stupid shit.


It does though. If you were to travel back in time and vote for him, you'd be voting for slavery. You can like his economic policies but still not ever want to vote for him, but that still means you like slavery.


>implying Pinoshit's economic 'reform' wasn't mass murder

By approving of Pinoshit's economic policy you imply that it was only possible by establishing a dictatorship to remove popular and democratically elected president Allende. As soon as you realize that most people do not like neoliberalism and that it won't ever be voted or voluntarily installed in if the people know what they are voting for, you will become a fascist.

Hilariously enough, I'd rather become a fascist than a neoliberal.

Um... why?

[Pasong Tirad]

>this post

Milton Friedman was a bourgeois economist who was wrong on almost everything. He also backed US imperialism because "muh freedumz" or some stupid shit.


It does though. If you were to travel back in time and vote for him, you'd be voting for slavery. You can like his economic policies but still not ever want to vote for him, but that still means you like slavery.


>implying Pinoshit's economic 'reform' wasn't mass murder

By approving of Pinoshit's economic policy you imply that it was only possible by establishing a dictatorship to remove popular and democratically elected president Allende. As soon as you realize that most people do not like neoliberalism and that it won't ever be voted or voluntarily installed in if the people know what they are voting for, you will become a fascist.

Hilariously enough, I'd rather become a fascist than a neoliberal.

You know you can choose neither, right?

[Ostroeuropa]

Hilariously enough, I'd rather become a fascist than a neoliberal.

Um... why?

Well if society is going to become fascist anyway you may as well be on the winning side. Supporting neoliberalism means supporting societal collapse and fascist takeover. "I'd rather be a fascist in a country that still has an economy and is driven slightly less mental by neoliberal gaslighting on the topics of race, sex, and class, than one driven to utter raving insanity by their bullshit and in total poverty from all the wealth being siphoned off to the wealthy who then bugger off".

Neoliberalism is just fascism after an intermediary period of gaslighting, wealth transfer and loss, and escalating tensions to make the eventual fascism even worse. Plenty of folk act like fascisms are all equal. They aint. You've got
"Get the gas chambers ready Hans"
all the way through to;
"Let's fire on these protestors til they go home then ban some books."

Or if you prefer;
"I'd rather be a Mussolini supporter than a Weimarist."
"You don't have to be either."

Quoted from some Germans, 1932.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Hilariously enough, I'd rather become a fascist than a neoliberal.

You know you can choose neither, right?

I'd indeed choose neither in the most optimal conditions, but this was a "this or this" riddle, not a "this, this or neither" one.

I prefer hitting both of 'em in the back of the head with a bat and extract their most positive tenets.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Um... why?

Well if society is going to become fascist anyway you may as well be on the winning side. Supporting neoliberalism means supporting societal collapse and fascist takeover. "I'd rather be a fascist in a country that still has an economy and is driven slightly less mental by neoliberal gaslighting on the topics of race, sex, and class, than one driven to utter raving insanity by their bullshit and in total poverty from all the wealth being siphoned off to the wealthy who then bugger off".

Neoliberalism is just fascism after an intermediary period of gaslighting, wealth transfer and loss, and escalating tensions to make the eventual fascism even worse. Plenty of folk act like fascisms are all equal. They aint. You've got
"Get the gas chambers ready Hans"
all the way through to;
"Let's fire on these protestors til they go home then ban some books."

Or if you prefer;
"I'd rather be a Mussolini supporter than a Weimarist."
"You don't have to be either."

Quoted from some Germans, 1932.

I was operating under the assumption that Fascism wasn't inevitable. Supporting liberalism does not mean supporting a Fascist takeover.

Neoliberalism is not just Fascism with gaslighting.

Yes, not all Fascisms are created equal, but most of the actually practiced forms of Fascism are far worse than "neoliberalism" in my opinion.

I would treat anyone (or at least anyone with the benefit of hindshight) who prefers Mussolini over the Weimar republic with great suspicion.

[Torrocca]

Um... why?

Well if society is going to become fascist anyway you may as well be on the winning side.

Or, better yet, a person (not directed toward anyone here <3) could just not be a spineless, cowardly opportunist fuckhead like Fascists generally are and join a resistance movement against them instead, regardless of whether the fuck or not if society's on the path to or guaranteed to become Fascist.

[Frievolk]

Well if society is going to become fascist anyway you may as well be on the winning side.

Ostro went from "If they wanna beat down the feminazis better help them do it and then do something about them" to "Just join the fascists. They're gonna win anyway" faster than even I expected, ngl.

[Ostroeuropa]

Well if society is going to become fascist anyway you may as well be on the winning side.

Or, better yet, a person (not directed toward anyone here <3) could just not be a spineless, cowardly opportunist fuckhead like Fascists generally are and join a resistance movement against them instead, regardless of whether the fuck or not if society's on the path to or guaranteed to become Fascist.

I'm a resistance movement all on my own at the moment anyway. The qualities you're discussing seem to be in vogue at the moment on all sides for the benefit of their own narrow demographic at the expense of others. Kind of a pickle.

Is it wrong to consider myself superior to minorities and women for giving in to it while I haven't? Or should I accept i'm no different, we're all just human beings and equal, and do the same by joining up with the fascist white males?
Decisions decisions.

Nah. I'll stick on the sidelines pointing out you're all driving me to drink.

Well if society is going to become fascist anyway you may as well be on the winning side.

Ostro went from "If they wanna beat down the feminazis better help them do it and then do something about them" to "Just join the fascists. They're gonna win anyway" faster than even I expected, ngl.

Quote ignores key context, but I'm bored of defending myself to progressives who deliberately misrepresent reality, their opponents, and everything else.

You guys win. When it comes to you and yours, I am a fascist. I want to treat you like a fascist would treat you. You are my enemy. Congratulations, your gaslighting has worn me down and I just don't care anymore nor have any faith left in you. You have played a game of constant abuse and brinkmanship by abusing whites and males while acting like them looking out for their own human rights is unacceptable. You have made it clear you are intent on demographic war because you are gaslighting us and pretending if we call you out for what you are doing, we must be crazy and evil.

Here by the way is what Torocca ignores and snips out of the quote in their relentless quest to be a detriment to the conversation:

. Supporting neoliberalism means supporting societal collapse and fascist takeover. "I'd rather be a fascist in a country that still has an economy and is driven slightly less mental by neoliberal gaslighting on the topics of race, sex, and class, than one driven to utter raving insanity by their bullshit and in total poverty from all the wealth being siphoned off to the wealthy who then bugger off".

Neoliberalism is just fascism after an intermediary period of gaslighting, wealth transfer and loss, and escalating tensions to make the eventual fascism even worse. Plenty of folk act like fascisms are all equal. They aint. You've got
"Get the gas chambers ready Hans"
all the way through to;
"Let's fire on these protestors til they go home then ban some books."

Or if you prefer;
"I'd rather be a Mussolini supporter than a Weimarist."
"You don't have to be either."

Quoted from some Germans, 1932.

The context is also;
"Would you rather be a neoliberal, or a fascist.".

But that's all for people from more honest ideologies and political movements to comprehend, not you and yours. I don't expect you to, I know you well enough.

For you two, for the other progressives, yes, i'm a fascist. Congratulations. It's not like it will make any difference. People with whom conversation cannot and should not be had.

[West Leas Oros 2]

So, I've been doing some thinking, and for a communist, i'm pretty centrist. sometimes.