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LWDT VI: Kropotkin's Bread Dead Redemption.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which Form of Leftism is The Best?

Left-Libertarianism
125
55%
Yes
66
29%
Left-Authoritarianism
37
16%
 
Total votes : 228

User avatar
Orostan
Senator
 
Posts: 3508
Founded: May 02, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Orostan » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:06 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
Orostan wrote:1. That's true but it's not that simple. Both are different economic systems, one has the other as the eventual goal. Also, shortages are not produced by socialism. The fastest industrialization in history was.

2. "Competitive advantages" is what makes a good business decision. Your statement is nonsensical.

1. Somehow all that industrialization did not remove shortages of goods. You'll have to convince your fellow leftists that the USSR wasn't state-capitalist.
2. My point was that Ford's decision was beneficial to him because it was competitive.

1. The USSR only had shortages of things in the 1980s when Gorby was destroying it or during the 30s when it was still in the process of industrializing.
2. Yes, and that makes it a good business decision, proving my point that he didn't do it out of the kindness of his heart.
local neighborhood gommunist xxxddd

“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN


Sagarmatha wrote:You have a corporatist brain. "It's more faster so it's better". Profit, profit, profit my dear Neoliberal, never forget why you exist. Profit, profit, profit.

User avatar
Northern Davincia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12231
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Northern Davincia » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:14 pm

Orostan wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:1. Somehow all that industrialization did not remove shortages of goods. You'll have to convince your fellow leftists that the USSR wasn't state-capitalist.
2. My point was that Ford's decision was beneficial to him because it was competitive.

1. The USSR only had shortages of things in the 1980s when Gorby was destroying it or during the 30s when it was still in the process of industrializing.
2. Yes, and that makes it a good business decision, proving my point that he didn't do it out of the kindness of his heart.

1. https://everipedia.org/wiki/lang_en/Con ... iet_Union/
2. I don't recall arguing that he had done it purely out of kindness, but the action itself was kind. People can do the right thing for the wrong reasons.
Right-Libertarian, Minarchist, Laissez-faire Capitalist, Catholic

Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

User avatar
Orostan
Senator
 
Posts: 3508
Founded: May 02, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Orostan » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:24 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
Orostan wrote:1. The USSR only had shortages of things in the 1980s when Gorby was destroying it or during the 30s when it was still in the process of industrializing.
2. Yes, and that makes it a good business decision, proving my point that he didn't do it out of the kindness of his heart.

1. https://everipedia.org/wiki/lang_en/Con ... iet_Union/
2. I don't recall arguing that he had done it purely out of kindness, but the action itself was kind. People can do the right thing for the wrong reasons.

1. That says that rationing only happened during the industrialization period and the second world war, and besides goods like cars most stuff was widely available all the time after any of these rationing periods.
2. Alright then. But the fact remains that Ford could have given his workers a lot more than he did, and he didn't do it because giving more wasn't in his class interest.
local neighborhood gommunist xxxddd

“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN


Sagarmatha wrote:You have a corporatist brain. "It's more faster so it's better". Profit, profit, profit my dear Neoliberal, never forget why you exist. Profit, profit, profit.

User avatar
Northern Davincia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12231
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Northern Davincia » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:31 pm

Orostan wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:1. https://everipedia.org/wiki/lang_en/Con ... iet_Union/
2. I don't recall arguing that he had done it purely out of kindness, but the action itself was kind. People can do the right thing for the wrong reasons.

1. That says that rationing only happened during the industrialization period and the second world war, and besides goods like cars most stuff was widely available all the time after any of these rationing periods.
2. Alright then. But the fact remains that Ford could have given his workers a lot more than he did, and he didn't do it because giving more wasn't in his class interest.

If other goods were widely available after WWII, why did the Kitchen Debate bring in so much attention?
Right-Libertarian, Minarchist, Laissez-faire Capitalist, Catholic

Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

User avatar
Orostan
Senator
 
Posts: 3508
Founded: May 02, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Orostan » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:42 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
Orostan wrote:1. That says that rationing only happened during the industrialization period and the second world war, and besides goods like cars most stuff was widely available all the time after any of these rationing periods.
2. Alright then. But the fact remains that Ford could have given his workers a lot more than he did, and he didn't do it because giving more wasn't in his class interest.

If other goods were widely available after WWII, why did the Kitchen Debate bring in so much attention?

Because any direct debate between leaders will do that?
local neighborhood gommunist xxxddd

“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN


Sagarmatha wrote:You have a corporatist brain. "It's more faster so it's better". Profit, profit, profit my dear Neoliberal, never forget why you exist. Profit, profit, profit.

User avatar
Northern Davincia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12231
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Northern Davincia » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:50 pm

Orostan wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:If other goods were widely available after WWII, why did the Kitchen Debate bring in so much attention?

Because any direct debate between leaders will do that?

A debate wouldn't be necessary if Soviet luxury was comparable to that of America's.
Right-Libertarian, Minarchist, Laissez-faire Capitalist, Catholic

Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

User avatar
Orostan
Senator
 
Posts: 3508
Founded: May 02, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Orostan » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:55 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
Orostan wrote:Because any direct debate between leaders will do that?

A debate wouldn't be necessary if Soviet luxury was comparable to that of America's.

>soviet luxury

We are talking about industrial production, not luxury or whatever. The USSR produced enough for its citizens to have enough of everything except some of the larger and more complicated consumer products. Yeah, it wasn't able to provide an equivalent standard of living to the USA, but they'd gone from a mostly agricultural economy just out of feudalism to an atomic superpower in just 30 years.
local neighborhood gommunist xxxddd

“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN


Sagarmatha wrote:You have a corporatist brain. "It's more faster so it's better". Profit, profit, profit my dear Neoliberal, never forget why you exist. Profit, profit, profit.

User avatar
Northern Davincia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12231
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Northern Davincia » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:01 pm

Orostan wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:A debate wouldn't be necessary if Soviet luxury was comparable to that of America's.

>soviet luxury

We are talking about industrial production, not luxury or whatever. The USSR produced enough for its citizens to have enough of everything except some of the larger and more complicated consumer products. Yeah, it wasn't able to provide an equivalent standard of living to the USA, but they'd gone from a mostly agricultural economy just out of feudalism to an atomic superpower in just 30 years.

Do you think that would have been possible without the NEP, American assistance, or huge loss of life?
Heck, their nuclear capacity would be nonexistent without stealing the knowledge.
Last edited by Northern Davincia on Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Right-Libertarian, Minarchist, Laissez-faire Capitalist, Catholic

Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

User avatar
Orostan
Senator
 
Posts: 3508
Founded: May 02, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Orostan » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:04 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
Orostan wrote:>soviet luxury

We are talking about industrial production, not luxury or whatever. The USSR produced enough for its citizens to have enough of everything except some of the larger and more complicated consumer products. Yeah, it wasn't able to provide an equivalent standard of living to the USA, but they'd gone from a mostly agricultural economy just out of feudalism to an atomic superpower in just 30 years.

Do you think that would have been possible without the NEP, American assistance, or huge loss of life?

>NEP
NEP was for stabilizing the economy, not industrializing it. But my answer is yes.

>American assistance
Depends on how you define it, but probably yes.

>huge loss of life
Not a question, the 1931 famine would have been much worse without socialism.

EDIT: The point is that they made their own nukes and developed their own types of bomb, meaning they had the specialized industry and a populace educated enough to do so.
Last edited by Orostan on Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
local neighborhood gommunist xxxddd

“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN


Sagarmatha wrote:You have a corporatist brain. "It's more faster so it's better". Profit, profit, profit my dear Neoliberal, never forget why you exist. Profit, profit, profit.

User avatar
Democratic Communist Federation
Senator
 
Posts: 3690
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:10 pm

Orostan wrote:1. Do you understand what socialism or communism are or do you think they are the same thing?


At least to Marx and Engels, the two terms are basically interchangeable. Lenin in the person who defined them differently.

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Democratic Communist Federation
Senator
 
Posts: 3690
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:12 pm

Orostan wrote:Social Democracy used to mean literally Lenin.


Not only Lenin. Also, Rosa Luxemburg and many others. Just as capitalists appropriated the term libertarianism, they also appropriated social democracy.

User avatar
Western Vale Confederacy
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9219
Founded: Nov 09, 2014
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Western Vale Confederacy » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:13 pm

Orostan wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:Do you think that would have been possible without the NEP, American assistance, or huge loss of life?

>NEP
NEP was for stabilizing the economy, not industrializing it. But my answer is yes.

>American assistance
Depends on how you define it, but probably yes.

>huge loss of life
Not a question, the 1931 famine would have been much worse without socialism.

EDIT: The point is that they made their own nukes and developed their own types of bomb, meaning they had the specialized industry and a populace educated enough to do so.


I do hope you realize that the Soviet nuclear program came to fruition because their spies stole the necessary blueprints from the US, right?

User avatar
Orostan
Senator
 
Posts: 3508
Founded: May 02, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Orostan » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:17 pm

Western Vale Confederacy wrote:
Orostan wrote:>NEP
NEP was for stabilizing the economy, not industrializing it. But my answer is yes.

>American assistance
Depends on how you define it, but probably yes.

>huge loss of life
Not a question, the 1931 famine would have been much worse without socialism.

EDIT: The point is that they made their own nukes and developed their own types of bomb, meaning they had the specialized industry and a populace educated enough to do so.


I do hope you realize that the Soviet nuclear program came to fruition because their spies stole the necessary blueprints from the US, right?

Did they steal a fully functional atomic bomb or did they make the bomb themselves with foreign plans?

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
Orostan wrote:1. Do you understand what socialism or communism are or do you think they are the same thing?


At least to Marx and Engels, the two terms are basically interchangeable. Lenin in the person who defined them differently.

That’s true but Marx does make it clear they are different systems in Critique of the Gotha Program.
local neighborhood gommunist xxxddd

“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN


Sagarmatha wrote:You have a corporatist brain. "It's more faster so it's better". Profit, profit, profit my dear Neoliberal, never forget why you exist. Profit, profit, profit.

User avatar
Democratic Communist Federation
Senator
 
Posts: 3690
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:28 pm

Orostan wrote:That’s true but Marx does make it clear they are different systems in Critique of the Gotha Program.


Marx and Engels wrote about two stages of socialism or communism (whatever you want to call it). That same idea is mentioned in Gotha. However, I do not see the two stages referred to as, first, socialism, and, second, communism. If you can show me what you are referring to, I will look at Gotha again.

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Orostan
Senator
 
Posts: 3508
Founded: May 02, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Orostan » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:41 pm

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
Orostan wrote:That’s true but Marx does make it clear they are different systems in Critique of the Gotha Program.


Marx and Engels wrote about two stages of socialism or communism (whatever you want to call it). That same idea is mentioned in Gotha. However, I do not see the two stages referred to as, first, socialism, and, second, communism. If you can show me what you are referring to, I will look at Gotha again.

I thought you were saying that the distinction was produced by Lenin and not by Marx, my bad.
local neighborhood gommunist xxxddd

“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN


Sagarmatha wrote:You have a corporatist brain. "It's more faster so it's better". Profit, profit, profit my dear Neoliberal, never forget why you exist. Profit, profit, profit.

User avatar
Democratic Communist Federation
Senator
 
Posts: 3690
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:05 pm

Orostan wrote:I thought you were saying that the distinction was produced by Lenin and not by Marx, my bad.


The distinction between the terms, socialism and communism, as names for the two stages comes from Lenin. However, the two stages are in Marx and Engels.

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Luminesa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 51676
Founded: Dec 09, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Luminesa » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:07 pm

Liriena wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
Because everyone's benefits change. There are a few altruists out there already and it can be argued that the capitalist system supresses altruistic thinking and encourages cut-throat competition and selfishness at every level and removing it would make people more likely to help a fella out.

Tbh, you could seriously point to Hollywood as an example of this: competition between major studios drives a lot of them to pour obscene amounts of resources into "safe bets", chasing trends and sometimes directly meddling with their products to increase market appeal, often leading to mediocre or disastrous results. Countless passion projects end up in development hell, artists get fired for not accommodating to the financial aspirations of their bosses, and films get radically altered in post-production to emulate competitors' past successes.

Still waiting for Codename: Kids Next Door’s last season. I cri everytiem.
Last edited by Luminesa on Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Catholic, pro-life, and proud of it. I prefer my debates on religion, politics, and sports with some coffee and a little Aquinas and G.K. CHESTERTON here and there. Not that I need the coffee, but you know... :3

So apparently I am an ENFP!

Unofficial #1 fan of the Who Dat Nation.
"I'm just a singer of simple songs, I'm not a real political man. I watch CNN, but I'm not sure I can tell you the difference in Iraq and Iran. But I know Jesus, and I talk to God, and I remember this from when I was young:
faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us...
and the greatest is love."
-Alan Jackson

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New haven america
Post Czar
 
Posts: 30336
Founded: Oct 08, 2012
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby New haven america » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:16 pm

Luminesa wrote:
Liriena wrote:Tbh, you could seriously point to Hollywood as an example of this: competition between major studios drives a lot of them to pour obscene amounts of resources into "safe bets", chasing trends and sometimes directly meddling with their products to increase market appeal, often leading to mediocre or disastrous results. Countless passion projects end up in development hell, artists get fired for not accommodating to the financial aspirations of their bosses, and films get radically altered in post-production to emulate competitors' past successes.

Still waiting for Codename: Kids Next Door’s last season. I cri everytiem.

Go to Rainbowmonkeys.com, click the nose, and type in the password "Galactic"
Human of the male variety
Will accept TGs
Char/Axis 2020

That's all folks~

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Democratic Communist Federation
Senator
 
Posts: 3690
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:48 pm

This is the bittersweet year of 2019. It is the 100ᵗʰ anniversary of the assassination of Rosa Luxemburg in Berlin.

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Luminesa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 51676
Founded: Dec 09, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Luminesa » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:39 pm

New haven america wrote:
Luminesa wrote:Still waiting for Codename: Kids Next Door’s last season. I cri everytiem.

Go to Rainbowmonkeys.com, click the nose, and type in the password "Galactic"

I thought that only gives you like a little clip!
Catholic, pro-life, and proud of it. I prefer my debates on religion, politics, and sports with some coffee and a little Aquinas and G.K. CHESTERTON here and there. Not that I need the coffee, but you know... :3

So apparently I am an ENFP!

Unofficial #1 fan of the Who Dat Nation.
"I'm just a singer of simple songs, I'm not a real political man. I watch CNN, but I'm not sure I can tell you the difference in Iraq and Iran. But I know Jesus, and I talk to God, and I remember this from when I was young:
faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us...
and the greatest is love."
-Alan Jackson

User avatar
Kubra
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11165
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Libertarian Police State

Postby Kubra » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:42 am

Aellex wrote:
Kubra wrote:The catalans have spend quite a long time being fucked over for being catalan. That sort of thing tends to solidify cultural-lingustic identity to the same degree that it is diminshed (you know, you get some folks to drop it, but the folks who don't *really* don't). Civic nationalism is great and all, but ideas don't take hold in a vaccuum, and the historical relation of Spain to Catalonia is one such place where folks aren't really in a likely position to decide they like it.

>when everyone bitch and moan about how Spain is treating the Catalans but they forget about what happened to the other half of their """country"""
aww french catalans ain't go much reason to have a go at the administration
they were not under Franco. As I said: the wounds ain't fresh.
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
-Comrade Posadas

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The Xenopolis Confederation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5120
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:07 am

Liriena wrote:Holy crap, I just found out that I missed some epic shit going down with some of the most prominent right-wingers in this forum.

Mardla gone (hopefully to a gay bar so he can stop his constant thirstposting), Nap gone (apparently because he tried to pull a Mike Cernovich on fellow NSGers like a dumbass?), UMN gone (the only one I'm actually gonna miss, tbh)

It's hard to enjoy NSG now that nearly everyone has either been purged, is leaving/considering leaving as a result of the purge, or is gloating about it. It really kills the vibe tbh.
Last edited by The Xenopolis Confederation on Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0
Social: -8
NS Stats should be taken with a pinch of salt, but they're not too far off. Policies are way off though.
I'm an 18 year old Australian male* who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

*I'm sort of questioning my gender, thinking I might be gender dysphoric, so if you want, you can use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
Western Vale Confederacy
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9219
Founded: Nov 09, 2014
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Western Vale Confederacy » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:15 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Liriena wrote:Holy crap, I just found out that I missed some epic shit going down with some of the most prominent right-wingers in this forum.

Mardla gone (hopefully to a gay bar so he can stop his constant thirstposting), Nap gone (apparently because he tried to pull a Mike Cernovich on fellow NSGers like a dumbass?), UMN gone (the only one I'm actually gonna miss, tbh)

It's hard to enjoy NSG now that nearly everyone has either been purged, is leaving/considering leaving as a result of the purge, or is gloating about it. It really kills the vibe tbh.


We're all friends here.

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5120
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:22 am

Liriena wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:I think you missed a lot.

I've been catching up on it all. Nap deserved what he got, and Mardla was unequivocally a bigot.

That being said, thanks for confirming the axiom that right-libs will always side with fashies and reactionaries.

Saying someone shouldn't have been purged or it's a shame they're leaving does not necessitate siding with their political beliefs.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0
Social: -8
NS Stats should be taken with a pinch of salt, but they're not too far off. Policies are way off though.
I'm an 18 year old Australian male* who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

*I'm sort of questioning my gender, thinking I might be gender dysphoric, so if you want, you can use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5120
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:23 am

Northern Davincia wrote:
Western Vale Confederacy wrote:
Let me guess, the clergy?

Those are often the right's own skeletons when it comes to the issue of pedophilia.

Not the clergy in this case. A number of right-libertarians don't see ephebophilia as contradictory to the NAP, or operate on the logic of "what if the child consents tho?!"
Then the Hoppeans (or just slightly more conservative libertarians) came along and saved the day.

A tad more than "slightly."
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0
Social: -8
NS Stats should be taken with a pinch of salt, but they're not too far off. Policies are way off though.
I'm an 18 year old Australian male* who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

*I'm sort of questioning my gender, thinking I might be gender dysphoric, so if you want, you can use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

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