LWDT VI: Kropotkin's Bread Dead Redemption.

[Orostan]

1. That says that rationing only happened during the industrialization period and the second world war, and besides goods like cars most stuff was widely available all the time after any of these rationing periods.
2. Alright then. But the fact remains that Ford could have given his workers a lot more than he did, and he didn't do it because giving more wasn't in his class interest.

If other goods were widely available after WWII, why did the Kitchen Debate bring in so much attention?

Because any direct debate between leaders will do that?

[Northern Davincia]

If other goods were widely available after WWII, why did the Kitchen Debate bring in so much attention?

Because any direct debate between leaders will do that?

A debate wouldn't be necessary if Soviet luxury was comparable to that of America's.

[Orostan]

Because any direct debate between leaders will do that?

A debate wouldn't be necessary if Soviet luxury was comparable to that of America's.

>soviet luxury

We are talking about industrial production, not luxury or whatever. The USSR produced enough for its citizens to have enough of everything except some of the larger and more complicated consumer products. Yeah, it wasn't able to provide an equivalent standard of living to the USA, but they'd gone from a mostly agricultural economy just out of feudalism to an atomic superpower in just 30 years.

[Northern Davincia]

A debate wouldn't be necessary if Soviet luxury was comparable to that of America's.

>soviet luxury

We are talking about industrial production, not luxury or whatever. The USSR produced enough for its citizens to have enough of everything except some of the larger and more complicated consumer products. Yeah, it wasn't able to provide an equivalent standard of living to the USA, but they'd gone from a mostly agricultural economy just out of feudalism to an atomic superpower in just 30 years.

Do you think that would have been possible without the NEP, American assistance, or huge loss of life?
Heck, their nuclear capacity would be nonexistent without stealing the knowledge.

[Orostan]

>soviet luxury

We are talking about industrial production, not luxury or whatever. The USSR produced enough for its citizens to have enough of everything except some of the larger and more complicated consumer products. Yeah, it wasn't able to provide an equivalent standard of living to the USA, but they'd gone from a mostly agricultural economy just out of feudalism to an atomic superpower in just 30 years.

Do you think that would have been possible without the NEP, American assistance, or huge loss of life?

>NEP
NEP was for stabilizing the economy, not industrializing it. But my answer is yes.

>American assistance
Depends on how you define it, but probably yes.

>huge loss of life
Not a question, the 1931 famine would have been much worse without socialism.

EDIT: The point is that they made their own nukes and developed their own types of bomb, meaning they had the specialized industry and a populace educated enough to do so.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

1. Do you understand what socialism or communism are or do you think they are the same thing?

At least to Marx and Engels, the two terms are basically interchangeable. Lenin in the person who defined them differently.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

Social Democracy used to mean literally Lenin.

Not only Lenin. Also, Rosa Luxemburg and many others. Just as capitalists appropriated the term libertarianism, they also appropriated social democracy.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Do you think that would have been possible without the NEP, American assistance, or huge loss of life?

>NEP
NEP was for stabilizing the economy, not industrializing it. But my answer is yes.

>American assistance
Depends on how you define it, but probably yes.

>huge loss of life
Not a question, the 1931 famine would have been much worse without socialism.

EDIT: The point is that they made their own nukes and developed their own types of bomb, meaning they had the specialized industry and a populace educated enough to do so.

I do hope you realize that the Soviet nuclear program came to fruition because their spies stole the necessary blueprints from the US, right?

[Orostan]

>NEP
NEP was for stabilizing the economy, not industrializing it. But my answer is yes.

>American assistance
Depends on how you define it, but probably yes.

>huge loss of life
Not a question, the 1931 famine would have been much worse without socialism.

EDIT: The point is that they made their own nukes and developed their own types of bomb, meaning they had the specialized industry and a populace educated enough to do so.

I do hope you realize that the Soviet nuclear program came to fruition because their spies stole the necessary blueprints from the US, right?

Did they steal a fully functional atomic bomb or did they make the bomb themselves with foreign plans?

1. Do you understand what socialism or communism are or do you think they are the same thing?

At least to Marx and Engels, the two terms are basically interchangeable. Lenin in the person who defined them differently.

That’s true but Marx does make it clear they are different systems in Critique of the Gotha Program.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

That’s true but Marx does make it clear they are different systems in Critique of the Gotha Program.

Marx and Engels wrote about two stages of socialism or communism (whatever you want to call it). That same idea is mentioned in Gotha. However, I do not see the two stages referred to as, first, socialism, and, second, communism. If you can show me what you are referring to, I will look at Gotha again.

[Orostan]

That’s true but Marx does make it clear they are different systems in Critique of the Gotha Program.

Marx and Engels wrote about two stages of socialism or communism (whatever you want to call it). That same idea is mentioned in Gotha. However, I do not see the two stages referred to as, first, socialism, and, second, communism. If you can show me what you are referring to, I will look at Gotha again.

I thought you were saying that the distinction was produced by Lenin and not by Marx, my bad.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

I thought you were saying that the distinction was produced by Lenin and not by Marx, my bad.

The distinction between the terms, socialism and communism, as names for the two stages comes from Lenin. However, the two stages are in Marx and Engels.

[Luminesa]

Because everyone's benefits change. There are a few altruists out there already and it can be argued that the capitalist system supresses altruistic thinking and encourages cut-throat competition and selfishness at every level and removing it would make people more likely to help a fella out.

Tbh, you could seriously point to Hollywood as an example of this: competition between major studios drives a lot of them to pour obscene amounts of resources into "safe bets", chasing trends and sometimes directly meddling with their products to increase market appeal, often leading to mediocre or disastrous results. Countless passion projects end up in development hell, artists get fired for not accommodating to the financial aspirations of their bosses, and films get radically altered in post-production to emulate competitors' past successes.

Still waiting for Codename: Kids Next Door’s last season. I cri everytiem.

[New haven america]

Tbh, you could seriously point to Hollywood as an example of this: competition between major studios drives a lot of them to pour obscene amounts of resources into "safe bets", chasing trends and sometimes directly meddling with their products to increase market appeal, often leading to mediocre or disastrous results. Countless passion projects end up in development hell, artists get fired for not accommodating to the financial aspirations of their bosses, and films get radically altered in post-production to emulate competitors' past successes.

Still waiting for Codename: Kids Next Door’s last season. I cri everytiem.

Go to Rainbowmonkeys.com, click the nose, and type in the password "Galactic"

[Democratic Communist Federation]

This is the bittersweet year of 2019. It is the 100ᵗʰ anniversary of the assassination of Rosa Luxemburg in Berlin.

[Luminesa]

Still waiting for Codename: Kids Next Door’s last season. I cri everytiem.

Go to Rainbowmonkeys.com, click the nose, and type in the password "Galactic"

I thought that only gives you like a little clip!

[Kubra]

The catalans have spend quite a long time being fucked over for being catalan. That sort of thing tends to solidify cultural-lingustic identity to the same degree that it is diminshed (you know, you get some folks to drop it, but the folks who don't *really* don't). Civic nationalism is great and all, but ideas don't take hold in a vaccuum, and the historical relation of Spain to Catalonia is one such place where folks aren't really in a likely position to decide they like it.

>when everyone bitch and moan about how Spain is treating the Catalans but they forget about what happened to the other half of their """country"""

aww french catalans ain't go much reason to have a go at the administration
they were not under Franco. As I said: the wounds ain't fresh.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Holy crap, I just found out that I missed some epic shit going down with some of the most prominent right-wingers in this forum.

Mardla gone (hopefully to a gay bar so he can stop his constant thirstposting), Nap gone (apparently because he tried to pull a Mike Cernovich on fellow NSGers like a dumbass?), UMN gone (the only one I'm actually gonna miss, tbh)

It's hard to enjoy NSG now that nearly everyone has either been purged, is leaving/considering leaving as a result of the purge, or is gloating about it. It really kills the vibe tbh.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Holy crap, I just found out that I missed some epic shit going down with some of the most prominent right-wingers in this forum.

Mardla gone (hopefully to a gay bar so he can stop his constant thirstposting), Nap gone (apparently because he tried to pull a Mike Cernovich on fellow NSGers like a dumbass?), UMN gone (the only one I'm actually gonna miss, tbh)

It's hard to enjoy NSG now that nearly everyone has either been purged, is leaving/considering leaving as a result of the purge, or is gloating about it. It really kills the vibe tbh.

We're all friends here.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

I think you missed a lot.

I've been catching up on it all. Nap deserved what he got, and Mardla was unequivocally a bigot.

That being said, thanks for confirming the axiom that right-libs will always side with fashies and reactionaries.

Saying someone shouldn't have been purged or it's a shame they're leaving does not necessitate siding with their political beliefs.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Let me guess, the clergy?

Those are often the right's own skeletons when it comes to the issue of pedophilia.

Not the clergy in this case. A number of right-libertarians don't see ephebophilia as contradictory to the NAP, or operate on the logic of "what if the child consents tho?!"
Then the Hoppeans (or just slightly more conservative libertarians) came along and saved the day.

A tad more than "slightly."

[Silver Commonwealth]

Holy crap, I just found out that I missed some epic shit going down with some of the most prominent right-wingers in this forum.

Mardla gone (hopefully to a gay bar so he can stop his constant thirstposting), Nap gone (apparently because he tried to pull a Mike Cernovich on fellow NSGers like a dumbass?), UMN gone (the only one I'm actually gonna miss, tbh)

It's hard to enjoy NSG now that nearly everyone has either been purged, is leaving/considering leaving as a result of the purge, or is gloating about it. It really kills the vibe tbh.

Ehh, posters come and go, but yea. Perhaps its F7 time? We have cookies.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

It's hard to enjoy NSG now that nearly everyone has either been purged, is leaving/considering leaving as a result of the purge, or is gloating about it. It really kills the vibe tbh.

We're all friends here.

I wish that were true.

[Torrocca]

Existential Comics striking with another valid take on Capitalism:

[Dumb Ideologies]

It's hard to enjoy NSG now that nearly everyone has either been purged, is leaving/considering leaving as a result of the purge, or is gloating about it. It really kills the vibe tbh.

Ehh, posters come and go, but yea. Perhaps its F7 time? We have cookies.

*roleplays in asterisks uwu kill me*