LWDT VI: Kropotkin's Bread Dead Redemption.

[Proctopeo]

That logic is bloody stupid!

In communism, libertarianism is socialism from below. Authoritarianism is socialism from above. Libertarian communists do not buy into the right-wing definition of libertarianism. In other words, my logic is not stupid. I am just not a right-winger.

Your logic is stupid regardless of your wing.

It is impossible to have freedom under capitalism. Therefore, capitalism must be eliminated. Communism is freedom. Capitalism is chains.

That sounds very dogmatic and authoritarian.

[Autarkheia]

It's impossible to be truly libertarian on the left or right without accepting that some people are not going to want to live in your imaginary utopia and they can do so without you if they want.

[Northern Davincia]

That logic is bloody stupid!

In communism, libertarianism is socialism from below. Authoritarianism is socialism from above. Libertarian communists do not buy into the right-wing definition of libertarianism. In other words, my logic is not stupid. I am just not a right-winger.

It is impossible to have freedom under capitalism. Therefore, capitalism must be eliminated. Communism is freedom. Capitalism is chains.

Dictatorship of the proletariat sounds antithetical to freedom, considering it's nothing more than mob rule.

[Autarkheia]

Dictatorship of the proletariat sounds antithetical to freedom, considering it's nothing more than mob rule.

No but see the proles will have super duper class consciousness and will certainly not commit any atrocities like what happens in most other revolutions. They have the power of God and anime Marx and Engels on their side.

[Valrifell]

Dictatorship of the proletariat sounds antithetical to freedom, considering it's nothing more than mob rule.

No but see the proles will have super duper class consciousness and will certainly not commit any atrocities like what happens in most other revolutions. They have the power of God and anime Marx and Engels on their side.

The proles will only commit atrocities on people we don't care about, so it's fine guys.

[Northern Davincia]

Dictatorship of the proletariat sounds antithetical to freedom, considering it's nothing more than mob rule.

No but see the proles will have super duper class consciousness and will certainly not commit any atrocities like what happens in most other revolutions. They have the power of God and anime Marx and Engels on their side.

"We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror."
Marxists do not deny the likelihood of atrocities, they just view their tyranny as preferable, and then act surprised when Maoists and Stalinists send them to the gulag.

[Torrocca]

No but see the proles will have super duper class consciousness and will certainly not commit any atrocities like what happens in most other revolutions. They have the power of God and anime Marx and Engels on their side.

The proles will only commit atrocities on people we don't care about, so it's fine guys.

Marxism: achieved

It's Stalinism time

[Northern Davincia]

The proles will only commit atrocities on people we don't care about, so it's fine guys.

Marxism: achieved

It's Stalinism time

First order of business: icepicks, and the demand thereof in Mexico.

[Pasong Tirad]

Marxism: achieved

It's Stalinism time

First order of business: icepicks, and the demand thereof in Mexico.

[Autarkheia]

The proles will only commit atrocities on people we don't care about, so it's fine guys.

Fucking kulaks.

"We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror."
Marxists do not deny the likelihood of atrocities, they just view their tyranny as preferable, and then act surprised when Maoists and Stalinists send them to the gulag.

"Why does Marxism always result in mass murder and dictatorship? Must be the capitalists. Oh, btw it never happened."

[Democratic Communist Federation]

It's impossible to be truly libertarian on the left or right without accepting that some people are not going to want to live in your imaginary utopia and they can do so without you if they want.

It is only make-believe if communists try to describe future communism in detail. Communists are not prophets.

[Northern Davincia]

It's impossible to be truly libertarian on the left or right without accepting that some people are not going to want to live in your imaginary utopia and they can do so without you if they want.

It is only make-believe if communists try to describe future communism in detail. Communists are not prophets.

They could at least describe enough to have a livable, functioning society after the revolution, instead of leaving enough vagueness for Stalinists to take advantage of.

[Orostan]

No but see the proles will have super duper class consciousness and will certainly not commit any atrocities like what happens in most other revolutions. They have the power of God and anime Marx and Engels on their side.

"We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror."
Marxists do not deny the likelihood of atrocities, they just view their tyranny as preferable, and then act surprised when Maoists and Stalinists send them to the gulag.

>hurr durr i cannot read

I am not surprised that you cannot ask "Terror against who?" or "Terror for what?"

The point Marx makes in that quote is that every revolution has revolutionary terror. The question is who that terror is directed at and why.

The proles will only commit atrocities on people we don't care about, so it's fine guys.

Fucking kulaks.

"We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror."
Marxists do not deny the likelihood of atrocities, they just view their tyranny as preferable, and then act surprised when Maoists and Stalinists send them to the gulag.

"Why does Marxism always result in mass murder and dictatorship? Must be the capitalists. Oh, btw it never happened."

"Marxism always results"

You have no idea what you are talking about. Marxism is a method of historical analysis and analysis of Capitalism. Socialism is the word you want to use, and you are wrong anyways. I suggest you read a little bit of Marx before talking about Marxism or Socialism like you understand it completely.

[Orostan]

It is only make-believe if communists try to describe future communism in detail. Communists are not prophets.

They could at least describe enough to have a livable, functioning society after the revolution, instead of leaving enough vagueness for Stalinists to take advantage of.

>i don't like the fastest industrialization in history
>i don't like literacy
>i don't like infrastructure

100% ancap

[Autarkheia]

Communists aren't prophets yet they literally believe they can predict the Rapture what the current socioeconomic system will be replaced by. Riight.

[Orostan]

Communists aren't prophets yet they literally believe they can predict the Rapturewhat the current socioeconomic system will be replaced by. Riight.

Do you mean to say that any analysis of the economy and prediction of where it might end up is impossible? Marx based his predictions for what Communism might be like on economic reality and where things were going at the time, and still are going.

[Northern Davincia]

"We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror."
Marxists do not deny the likelihood of atrocities, they just view their tyranny as preferable, and then act surprised when Maoists and Stalinists send them to the gulag.

>hurr durr i cannot read

I am not surprised that you cannot ask "Terror against who?" or "Terror for what?"

The point Marx makes in that quote is that every revolution has revolutionary terror. The question is who that terror is directed at and why.

In practice, the terror is against anyone deemed sufficiently counterrevolutionary. There is little in the way of stopping atrocities.

They could at least describe enough to have a livable, functioning society after the revolution, instead of leaving enough vagueness for Stalinists to take advantage of.

>i don't like the fastest industrialization in history
>i don't like literacy
>i don't like infrastructure

100% ancap

North Korea is a wonderful place to live, I hear.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Communists aren't prophets yet they literally believe they can predict the Rapturewhat the current socioeconomic system will be replaced by. Riight.

Do you mean to say that any analysis of the economy and prediction of where it might end up is impossible? Marx based his predictions for what Communism might be like on economic reality and where things were going at the time, and still are going.

Leftism is growing, but not through revolution.

[Autarkheia]

No, I am saying Marx's predictions, though they might have been reasonable at the time, were apparently wrong.

But I don't debate with tankies, sorry.

[Northern Davincia]

No, I am saying Marx's predictions, though they might have been reasonable at the time, were apparently wrong.

But I don't debate with tankies, sorry.

Debating with tankies is fun, though.

[Orostan]

>hurr durr i cannot read

I am not surprised that you cannot ask "Terror against who?" or "Terror for what?"

The point Marx makes in that quote is that every revolution has revolutionary terror. The question is who that terror is directed at and why.

In practice, the terror is against anyone deemed sufficiently counterrevolutionary. There is little in the way of stopping atrocities.

>i don't like the fastest industrialization in history
>i don't like literacy
>i don't like infrastructure

100% ancap

North Korea is a wonderful place to live, I hear.

1) You mean people who burn grain during famines and fascists?

2) I was referencing the Soviet Union.

[Orostan]

No, I am saying Marx's predictions, though they might have been reasonable at the time, were apparently wrong.

But I don't debate with tankies, sorry.

>I refuse to acknowledge my opponents position because reasons

smug, aren't you?

[Autarkheia]

Debating with tankies is fun, though.

Nah, it's not to me. I find it very frustrating and repetitive. I would almost rather debate an ancap. Almost.

[Northern Davincia]

In practice, the terror is against anyone deemed sufficiently counterrevolutionary. There is little in the way of stopping atrocities.

North Korea is a wonderful place to live, I hear.

1) You mean people who burn grain during famines and fascists?

2) I was referencing the Soviet Union.

1. More like scientists, artists, writers, etc.
2. Yes, and I was hoping that you'd pick up on the idea that material conditions aren't enough to have a society worth living in. I'd rather be broke in the US than well-off in the USSR.

[Autarkheia]

smug, aren't you?

I'd rather be smug than a tankie.