LWDT VI: Kropotkin's Bread Dead Redemption.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Understandable enough, but them whining isn't really what I'd call harmful.

It's harmful in large enough numbers, where it can be an active hurdle to the rights of people.

If they are violent towards or actively discriminate, then in that case, it's a different can of worms.

Ye.

Luckily, most people nowadays are neutral towards LGBT folk at worst.

[Torrocca]

It's harmful in large enough numbers, where it can be an active hurdle to the rights of people.



Ye.

Luckily, most people nowadays are neutral towards LGBT folk at worst.

Maybe in, like, Northwestern Europe and some of Metropolitan America.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Luckily, most people nowadays are neutral towards LGBT folk at worst.

Maybe in, like, Northwestern Europe and some of Metropolitan America.

Exactly, albeit they suffer a far worse fate anywhere else across the world with the exception of a few patches of tolerance (Thailand for example).

[Torrocca]

Maybe in, like, Northwestern Europe and some of Metropolitan America.

Exactly, albeit they suffer a far worse fate anywhere else across the world with the exception of a few patches of tolerance (Thailand for example).

All the more reason there needs to be a radical change to society across the world.

[The National Salvation Front for Russia]

All the more reason there needs to be a radical change to society across the world.

How would you introduce that radical change? Dropping leaflets espousing tolerance?

Whenever I hear change to society across the world I tend to hear the steady drums of "White Man's Burden".

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Exactly, albeit they suffer a far worse fate anywhere else across the world with the exception of a few patches of tolerance (Thailand for example).

All the more reason there needs to be a radical change to society across the world.

Well, pressuring for a progressive reform of Islam might be a good start.

[Torrocca]

All the more reason there needs to be a radical change to society across the world.

How would you introduce that radical change? Dropping leaflets espousing tolerance?

Whenever I hear change to society across the world I tend to hear the steady drums of "White Man's Burden".

Revolution.

[Pasong Tirad]

All the more reason there needs to be a radical change to society across the world.

How would you introduce that radical change? Dropping leaflets espousing tolerance?

Whenever I hear change to society across the world I tend to hear the steady drums of "White Man's Burden".

You may have a radically different understanding of White Man's Burden if you think it's comparable to telling people not to kill the gays and accept that transpeople are real.

[The National Salvation Front for Russia]

You may have a radically different understanding of White Man's Burden if you think it's comparable to telling people not to kill the gays and accept that transpeople are real.

Duh, obviously the two are not the same. They share a similar theme though, Western nations intervening in other, generally poorer countries, to assert their own cultural and social ideals. Unless you literally advocate going around and politely asking other nations to stop oppressing people, the methods to achieve change are similarly invasive to how White Man's Burden was achieved.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Relevant

Yes, because the far left = "oppression is bad" and the far right = "oppression is good."

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Compromise is a way to avoid vengeful violence, however.

We can't really compromise with people who think certain kinds of people are less-than-human.

Cool, but people who think that certain kinds of people are less than human make up less than 1% of people.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

How would you introduce that radical change? Dropping leaflets espousing tolerance?

Whenever I hear change to society across the world I tend to hear the steady drums of "White Man's Burden".

Revolution.

"How are you going to create a house?"

"By creating a city."

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Revolution.

"How are you going to create a house?"

"By creating a city."

Here is a more accurate analogy...

"How will you get rid of that spider in your bedroom?"

"By burning down the entire fucking neighbourhood."

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Ewww, no. Fuck "blue" labor and any other left movement that thinks pandering to social conservatism is good.
Seriously, "family, faith and flag"? As if all three of those hadn't been used over the course of the twentieth century as excuses to imprison, torture and slaughter everyone to the left of Pinochet (and, y'know, queer people, religious minorities, secularists, youth activists and pacifists).

Not that I think blue labor is a good movement (because it's even worse than normal labour), but every idea ever devised has been used to justify atrocities.

Also, totally unrelated, but the amount of "classical liberal" salt in the comments under the Patreon explanation for deplatforming Carl Benjamin is incredible.

Removing a Youtuber who didn't violate the ToS simply because you disagree with their centre-right politics is sufficient cause to be "salty." They took him down over a 10 month old speech in which he called the alt-right "white niggers" to say that they were acting exactly in the manner they claim black people act. The clip wasn't part of his patreon content, and it was only bought to Patreon's attention due to an alt-right mass flagging campaign. It's plainly obvious they took him down because they didn't like him, not because his white niggers speech violated their ToS. Otherwise, they'd ban frickin Bono off of Patreon.

[Ostroeuropa]

Ewww, no. Fuck "blue" labor and any other left movement that thinks pandering to social conservatism is good.
Seriously, "family, faith and flag"? As if all three of those hadn't been used over the course of the twentieth century as excuses to imprison, torture and slaughter everyone to the left of Pinochet (and, y'know, queer people, religious minorities, secularists, youth activists and pacifists).

Also, totally unrelated, but the amount of "classical liberal" salt in the comments under the Patreon explanation for deplatforming Carl Benjamin is incredible.

Blue Labour isn't socially conservative on those issues and it's a mischaracterization to call them such. They are communitarian. I've had this discussion with you before.

Rejecting family, faith, and flag on that silly basis is not better than rejecting equality because Stalin.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=437423&p=33643478&hilit=ostroeuropa+blue+labour#p33643478

[The New California Republic]

"How are you going to create a house?"

"By creating a city."

Here is a more accurate analogy...

"How will you get rid of that spider in your bedroom?"

"By burning down the entire fucking neighbourhood."

"By inciting the other insects to rise up against their arachnid oppressors."

Fixed.

[Valrifell]

"How are you going to create a house?"

"By creating a city."

Here is a more accurate analogy...

"How will you get rid of that spider in your bedroom?"

"By burning down the entire fucking neighbourhood."

This is completely proportionate, though. Are you advocating for revolution?

[Dumb Ideologies]

Ewww, no. Fuck "blue" labor and any other left movement that thinks pandering to social conservatism is good.
Seriously, "family, faith and flag"? As if all three of those hadn't been used over the course of the twentieth century as excuses to imprison, torture and slaughter everyone to the left of Pinochet (and, y'know, queer people, religious minorities, secularists, youth activists and pacifists).

You can favour left-wing economics, be anti-multiculturalism, patriotic, and show support for the pillars of traditional society, without any particular desire to round up groups of people for torture and imprisonment.

It's pretty lazy to say that just because certain principles and ideas were spouted by other people they're automatically invalid - in which case all liberalism would also be invalidated by the French Revolutionary Terror, and all socialism by Stalin. No liberalism, no socialism, no social conservatism - presumably we're best kept in political stasis with the administration of things handled by many-appendaged shrieking void-creatures who feast on the lifeforce of anyone who stumbles into the forbidden realms of political theory.

[Autarkheia]

Okay, to get things going in this thread again, which form of Leftism is the best?

Ideally, libertarian socialism; realistically, some kind of market socialism within a liberal democracy.

[Valrifell]

Okay, to get things going in this thread again, which form of Leftism is the best?

Ideally, libertarian socialism; realistically, some kind of market socialism within a liberal democracy.

[everyone disliked that]

[Hammer Britannia]

Okay, to get things going in this thread again, which form of Leftism is the best?

If it could work: Fully Automated Luxury Gay Space Communism.

However, if I had to choose, it would be Titoism. Mostly out of Yugoslav nostalgia

[Autarkheia]

[everyone disliked that]

Why? Is this thread full of tankies or something?

[Hammer Britannia]

[everyone disliked that]

Why? Is this thread full of tankies or something?

People think extreme socialism can work in this thread

[Autarkheia]

People think extreme socialism can work in this thread

Like Stalinism or anarcho-communism or something? They do ... for a given value of "work".

On a side note I think Titoism was probably the best implementation of Marxist-Leninism. Which isn't saying much, but still.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Okay, to get things going in this thread again, which form of Leftism is the best?

Ideally, libertarian socialism; realistically, some kind of market socialism within a liberal democracy.

6.5/10: "it's not terrible". A bit too much individualism and parliamentary democracy, but it may still produce a slightly more balanced society than the status quo.