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LWDT VI: Kropotkin's Bread Dead Redemption.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which Form of Leftism is The Best?

Left-Libertarianism
125
55%
Yes
66
29%
Left-Authoritarianism
37
16%
 
Total votes : 228

User avatar
Northern Davincia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16960
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Davincia » Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:45 pm

Liriena wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:We need to focus our bulli on other people sometimes.

Manga is not literature. ;P

Image
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

User avatar
Hammer Britannia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5390
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Hammer Britannia » Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:45 pm

Liriena wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:We need to focus our bulli on other people sometimes.

Manga is not literature. ;P

For once I agree
All shall tremble before me

User avatar
Uiiop
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8301
Founded: Jun 20, 2012
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Uiiop » Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:47 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
Liriena wrote:Manga is not literature. ;P

Image

Hammer Britannia wrote:
Liriena wrote:Manga is not literature. ;P

For once I agree

Isn't that what the word Gekiga is for? :p
#NSTransparency

User avatar
The Batorys
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5703
Founded: Oct 12, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby The Batorys » Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:55 pm

Liriena wrote:
The Batorys wrote:I mean, most politicians are quite unsexy.

Like thinking of Ted Cruz or Chuck Grassley in a sexual context is literally nauseating.

Kaniela Ing is a snacc tho

*looks up*

Well damn.
Mallorea and Riva should resign
This is an alternate history version of Callisdrun.
Here is the (incomplete) Factbook
Ask me about The Forgotten Lands!
Pro: Feminism, environmentalism, BLM, LGBTQUILTBAG, BDSM, unions, hyphy, Lenin, Ho Chi Minh, Oakland, old San Francisco, the Alliance to Restore the Republic, and fully automated gay luxury space communism
Anti: Misogyny, fossil fuels, racism, homophobia, kink-shaming, capitalism, LA, Silicon Valley, techies, Brezhnev, the Galactic Empire, and the "alt-right"

User avatar
Northern Davincia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16960
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Davincia » Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:58 pm

The Batorys wrote:
Liriena wrote:Kaniela Ing is a snacc tho

*looks up*

Well damn.

Well I'll be darned.
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

User avatar
Luminesa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 61261
Founded: Dec 09, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Luminesa » Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:25 pm

Uiiop wrote:
Luminesa wrote:Eh. What else was I supposed to say? It’s a hypothetical, not a big deal.

I'm not taking this seriously i was just trying to clarify.
It's not anyone's fault tone is hazy on text.

Fair.
Catholic, pro-life, and proud of it. I prefer my debates on religion, politics, and sports with some coffee and a little Aquinas and G.K. CHESTERTON here and there. :3
Unofficial #1 fan of the Who Dat Nation.
"I'm just a singer of simple songs, I'm not a real political man. I watch CNN, but I'm not sure I can tell you the difference in Iraq and Iran. But I know Jesus, and I talk to God, and I remember this from when I was young:
faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us...
and the greatest is love."
-Alan Jackson
Help the Ukrainian people, here's some sources!
Help bring home First Nation girls! Now with more ways to help!
Jesus loves all of His children in Eastern Europe - pray for peace.
Pray for Ukraine, Wear Sunflowers In Your Hair

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Luminesa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 61261
Founded: Dec 09, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Luminesa » Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:26 pm

Uxupox wrote:
Luminesa wrote:Huh. So she has a Steam?


nah. it means she is a bad player since bronze 5 is the worst category in that game.

Ouch.
Catholic, pro-life, and proud of it. I prefer my debates on religion, politics, and sports with some coffee and a little Aquinas and G.K. CHESTERTON here and there. :3
Unofficial #1 fan of the Who Dat Nation.
"I'm just a singer of simple songs, I'm not a real political man. I watch CNN, but I'm not sure I can tell you the difference in Iraq and Iran. But I know Jesus, and I talk to God, and I remember this from when I was young:
faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us...
and the greatest is love."
-Alan Jackson
Help the Ukrainian people, here's some sources!
Help bring home First Nation girls! Now with more ways to help!
Jesus loves all of His children in Eastern Europe - pray for peace.
Pray for Ukraine, Wear Sunflowers In Your Hair

User avatar
Hammer Britannia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5390
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Hammer Britannia » Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:28 pm

Uxupox wrote:
Luminesa wrote:Huh. So she has a Steam?


nah. it means she is a bad player since bronze 5 is the worst category in that game.

Or a liar trying to get political points from Gamers

Gamers rise up
All shall tremble before me

User avatar
Thermodolia
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 78488
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:29 pm

Genivaria wrote:Wait am I the only one who doesn't go on Reddit for politics?
I just go on Reddit for games.

I go on Reddit for memes, polandball, and idiots
Male, Jewish, lives somewhere in AZ, Disabled US Military Veteran, Oorah!, I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
Click for Da Funies

RIP Dya

User avatar
Kubra
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17223
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Father Knows Best State

Postby Kubra » Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:33 pm

Uxupox wrote:
Kubra wrote: he wasn't particular good as an autocrat, insofar as late in the civil war the party had to veto his decisions like all the time.
After the war and before the stroke he was pretty resigned to being first among equals. Very brief window of time, that


"first among equals" is still seniority over all others party members in which he was regarded to be the one to make ultimately make the final decision.
Sure, but simply being the top an autocrat doesn't make. By that measure, nearly every head of state is an autocrat.
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
Comrade J. Posadas

User avatar
The Batorys
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5703
Founded: Oct 12, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby The Batorys » Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:36 pm

Kubra wrote:
Uxupox wrote:
"first among equals" is still seniority over all others party members in which he was regarded to be the one to make ultimately make the final decision.
Sure, but simply being the top an autocrat doesn't make. By that measure, nearly every head of state is an autocrat.

Indeed. "First among equals" is arguably less autocratic than many other forms of heads of state.
Mallorea and Riva should resign
This is an alternate history version of Callisdrun.
Here is the (incomplete) Factbook
Ask me about The Forgotten Lands!
Pro: Feminism, environmentalism, BLM, LGBTQUILTBAG, BDSM, unions, hyphy, Lenin, Ho Chi Minh, Oakland, old San Francisco, the Alliance to Restore the Republic, and fully automated gay luxury space communism
Anti: Misogyny, fossil fuels, racism, homophobia, kink-shaming, capitalism, LA, Silicon Valley, techies, Brezhnev, the Galactic Empire, and the "alt-right"

User avatar
Democratic Communist Federation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5297
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:01 pm

Loben wrote:thats funny considering rosa was thrown into a canal.


No, I don't think that is funny at all.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ•Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל)
third campismLibertarian Marxist Social Fictioncritical realismAntifaDialectical metaRealism ☝️ The
MarkFoster.NETwork
You are welcome as an embassy of Antifa Dialectical metaRealism. Our ♥️ ḏik°r
(Arabic, ذِكْر. remembrance): Yā Bahāˁ ʾal•⫯Ab°haỳ, wa•yā ʿAliyy ʾal•⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (Arabic, !يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى ، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى)
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Democratic Communist Federation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5297
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:05 pm

Jolthig wrote:The progressive left does have potential from a grassroots standpoint here in the US.


The problem with progressivism, IMO, is that it is purely issue-focused, not emancipatory.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ•Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל)
third campismLibertarian Marxist Social Fictioncritical realismAntifaDialectical metaRealism ☝️ The
MarkFoster.NETwork
You are welcome as an embassy of Antifa Dialectical metaRealism. Our ♥️ ḏik°r
(Arabic, ذِكْر. remembrance): Yā Bahāˁ ʾal•⫯Ab°haỳ, wa•yā ʿAliyy ʾal•⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (Arabic, !يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى ، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى)
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Democratic Communist Federation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5297
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:07 pm

Jolthig wrote:Agreed. Bernie Sanders had a lot of potential the last election.


And, as he said in his debates with Hillary Clinton, he would also have continued the U.S.'s imperialist wars.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ•Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל)
third campismLibertarian Marxist Social Fictioncritical realismAntifaDialectical metaRealism ☝️ The
MarkFoster.NETwork
You are welcome as an embassy of Antifa Dialectical metaRealism. Our ♥️ ḏik°r
(Arabic, ذِكْر. remembrance): Yā Bahāˁ ʾal•⫯Ab°haỳ, wa•yā ʿAliyy ʾal•⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (Arabic, !يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى ، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى)
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User avatar
Uxupox
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13447
Founded: Nov 13, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Uxupox » Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:14 pm

Kubra wrote:
Uxupox wrote:
"first among equals" is still seniority over all others party members in which he was regarded to be the one to make ultimately make the final decision.
Sure, but simply being the top an autocrat doesn't make. By that measure, nearly every head of state is an autocrat.


It's just wording.

bearing higher status and various additional powers while remaining still merely equal to their peers in important senses.
Economic Left/Right: 0.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.00

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Democratic Communist Federation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5297
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:16 pm

Liriena wrote:I am endlessly fascinated by how willingly and consistently right-wing "libertarians" will show themselves to be just typical far right authoritarians with a cuter vocabulary. Just can't stop themselves from killing the "moderate right-wing" myth themselves.


Exactly.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ•Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל)
third campismLibertarian Marxist Social Fictioncritical realismAntifaDialectical metaRealism ☝️ The
MarkFoster.NETwork
You are welcome as an embassy of Antifa Dialectical metaRealism. Our ♥️ ḏik°r
(Arabic, ذِكْر. remembrance): Yā Bahāˁ ʾal•⫯Ab°haỳ, wa•yā ʿAliyy ʾal•⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (Arabic, !يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى ، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى)
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Democratic Communist Federation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5297
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:20 pm

Kaggeceria wrote:Just because the Natives didn't get a chance to genocide Europeans doesn't mean that they weren't horrendously shitty, and I'm not going to shed a tear for what happened to them.


The Europeans were the invaders and the imperialists. Fighting imperialism is not evil.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ•Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל)
third campismLibertarian Marxist Social Fictioncritical realismAntifaDialectical metaRealism ☝️ The
MarkFoster.NETwork
You are welcome as an embassy of Antifa Dialectical metaRealism. Our ♥️ ḏik°r
(Arabic, ذِكْر. remembrance): Yā Bahāˁ ʾal•⫯Ab°haỳ, wa•yā ʿAliyy ʾal•⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (Arabic, !يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى ، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى)
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Democratic Communist Federation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5297
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:21 pm

Kaggeceria wrote:Can we give it a rest with picking on Torra?


Especially since it is quite rare for people to admit a mistake.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ•Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל)
third campismLibertarian Marxist Social Fictioncritical realismAntifaDialectical metaRealism ☝️ The
MarkFoster.NETwork
You are welcome as an embassy of Antifa Dialectical metaRealism. Our ♥️ ḏik°r
(Arabic, ذِكْر. remembrance): Yā Bahāˁ ʾal•⫯Ab°haỳ, wa•yā ʿAliyy ʾal•⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (Arabic, !يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى ، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى)
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[color=#ff0000]Member,[/color] [url=https://www.nationstates.net/nation=democratic_communist_federation/detail=factbook/id=870177][color=#ff0000][u]Antifa Dialectical metaRealism[/u][/color][/url]

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Northern Davincia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16960
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Davincia » Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:27 pm

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
Liriena wrote:I am endlessly fascinated by how willingly and consistently right-wing "libertarians" will show themselves to be just typical far right authoritarians with a cuter vocabulary. Just can't stop themselves from killing the "moderate right-wing" myth themselves.


Exactly.

What are your thoughts on hate speech laws?
Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
Kaggeceria wrote:Just because the Natives didn't get a chance to genocide Europeans doesn't mean that they weren't horrendously shitty, and I'm not going to shed a tear for what happened to them.


The Europeans were the invaders and the imperialists. Fighting imperialism is not evil.

Some Europeans were refugees. Where is your sympathy?
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

User avatar
Jolthig
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18284
Founded: Aug 31, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Jolthig » Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:36 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
Exactly.

What are your thoughts on hate speech laws?
Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
The Europeans were the invaders and the imperialists. Fighting imperialism is not evil.

Some Europeans were refugees. Where is your sympathy?

True, and it does heavily influence our constitution; though, I'm not sure how this has anything to do with his argument?
Ahmadi Muslim • Absolute Justice • Star Wars fan • Love For All, Hatred For None • trucker

Want to know more about Ahmadiyya? Click here!

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Northern Davincia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16960
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Davincia » Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:38 pm

Jolthig wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:What are your thoughts on hate speech laws?

Some Europeans were refugees. Where is your sympathy?

True, and it does heavily influence our constitution; though, I'm not sure how this has anything to do with his argument?

To say that all Europeans were invaders is false. Otherwise, we'd have to extent that term to Syrian refugees and the like.
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

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Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27805
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:39 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
The Europeans were the invaders and the imperialists. Fighting imperialism is not evil.

Some Europeans were refugees. Where is your sympathy?


It's ironic as fuck that you say this after making it abundantly clear you want to put mines across American and European borders to cull refugees. :^)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Jolthig
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18284
Founded: Aug 31, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Jolthig » Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:40 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
Jolthig wrote:True, and it does heavily influence our constitution; though, I'm not sure how this has anything to do with his argument?

To say that all Europeans were invaders is false. Otherwise, we'd have to extent that term to Syrian refugees and the like.

True.
Ahmadi Muslim • Absolute Justice • Star Wars fan • Love For All, Hatred For None • trucker

Want to know more about Ahmadiyya? Click here!

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Northern Davincia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16960
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Davincia » Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:40 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:Some Europeans were refugees. Where is your sympathy?


It's ironic as fuck that you say this after making it abundantly clear you want to put mines across American and European borders to cull refugees. :^)

I have no issue if they enter legally. :^)
Beyond that, I have very little sympathy for trespassers.
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

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The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9518
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:40 pm

Liriena wrote:
The Batorys wrote:Some window dressing, I think.

I am endlessly fascinated by how willingly and consistently right-wing "libertarians" will show themselves to be just typical far right authoritarians with a cuter vocabulary. Just can't stop themselves from killing the "moderate right-wing" myth themselves.

#notall
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Deontology, Progressive Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, State Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Apple, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Nationality: Australian
Gender: MTF trans woman (she/her)
Political Ideology: If "milktoast liberalism" had a baby with "bleeding-heart libertarianism."
Discord: mellotronyellow

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