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LWDT VI: Kropotkin's Bread Dead Redemption.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which Form of Leftism is The Best?

Left-Libertarianism
125
55%
Yes
66
29%
Left-Authoritarianism
37
16%
 
Total votes : 228

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27807
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:27 pm

Luminesa wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Except, of course, for the fact that I spent that entire argument never once saying that the event was a good thing that happened. In fact, if you go through it, you'll see I more or less consistently agreed it was an entirely shitty thing that should never have happened.

But, please, keep going on about something I admitted to being wrong in one regard about.

Yet you never said it was a genocide. Multiple people pointed to you that it was by definition a genocide, and not just “a bad thing that happened”. Specifically, when I pointed-it out I never saw any response to the question. Now I may have missed your response, or you decided to ignore my post. I don’t know which. But I do know that you kept saying, “Y-Yeah it was bad b-but defining a genocide is hard!” What was that about being selective about your rage?


I never said it was a genocide, that's true.

But I never once disagreed on the fact of the matter that it was an utterly horrendous atrocity that had no right to happen. And I realized I was wrong, that it was more than just an atrocity, and I fucking apologized for that mistake.

Like I said, can we fucking not go through another round of this?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

User avatar
Kaggeceria
Minister
 
Posts: 3000
Founded: Feb 19, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Kaggeceria » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:28 pm

Can we give it a rest with picking on Torra?
The Kaggecerian Realm (PMT)
I'm just a simple man trying to make my way in the universe
NSG's only Jewish Nazi with the spookiest flag

User avatar
Luminesa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 61275
Founded: Dec 09, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Luminesa » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:32 pm

Kaggeceria wrote:Can we give it a rest with picking on Torra?

I mean, hey, I’m fine with this. I got the answer I was looking for.
Catholic, pro-life, and proud of it. I prefer my debates on religion, politics, and sports with some coffee and a little Aquinas and G.K. CHESTERTON here and there. :3
Unofficial #1 fan of the Who Dat Nation.
"I'm just a singer of simple songs, I'm not a real political man. I watch CNN, but I'm not sure I can tell you the difference in Iraq and Iran. But I know Jesus, and I talk to God, and I remember this from when I was young:
faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us...
and the greatest is love."
-Alan Jackson
Help the Ukrainian people, here's some sources!
Help bring home First Nation girls! Now with more ways to help!
Jesus loves all of His children in Eastern Europe - pray for peace.
Pray for Ukraine, Wear Sunflowers In Your Hair

User avatar
Proctopeo
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12370
Founded: Sep 26, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Proctopeo » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:34 pm

Kaggeceria wrote:Can we give it a rest with picking on Torra?

We need to focus our bulli on other people sometimes.
Arachno-anarchism || NO GODS NO MASTERS || Free NSG Odreria

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60885
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:35 pm

Luminesa wrote:No need to get so defensive.

I was correcting your misreading. That doesn't fit the definition of defensiveness.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60885
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:36 pm

Proctopeo wrote:
Kaggeceria wrote:Can we give it a rest with picking on Torra?

We need to focus our bulli on other people sometimes.

Manga is not literature. ;P
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Proctopeo
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12370
Founded: Sep 26, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Proctopeo » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:37 pm

Liriena wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:We need to focus our bulli on other people sometimes.

Manga is not literature. ;P

I bet you like knives. And pens. In... unsavory ways, too.
Arachno-anarchism || NO GODS NO MASTERS || Free NSG Odreria

User avatar
Korouse
Minister
 
Posts: 3441
Founded: Mar 10, 2014
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Korouse » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:38 pm

Kaggeceria wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
My outrage is never selective. Me arguing that a greater case of evil is bad is no argument that a lesser case of evil is good.

Evil is evil.

Just because the Natives didn't get a chance to genocide Europeans doesn't mean that they weren't horrendously shitty, and I'm not going to shed a tear for what happened to them.

The first whites that settled in North America were privileged enough to buy huge amounts of supplies, but since there wasn't any land, they went to America and decided to steal and lie for it. There were more than a few deserved scalpings. Same with South America, except that place had full-scale Empires and was way more egalitarian when it came to genders.
Last edited by Korouse on Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Everything is illusory except power,' the revolutionary people reply." - Vladimir Lenin

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60885
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:40 pm

Proctopeo wrote:
Liriena wrote:Manga is not literature. ;P

I bet you like knives. And pens. In... unsavory ways, too.

I like sporks. :3
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Proctopeo
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12370
Founded: Sep 26, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Proctopeo » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:41 pm

Liriena wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:I bet you like knives. And pens. In... unsavory ways, too.

I like sporks. :3

I feel like there's a communication gap here
Arachno-anarchism || NO GODS NO MASTERS || Free NSG Odreria

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27807
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:41 pm

Proctopeo wrote:
Liriena wrote:I like sporks. :3

I feel like there's a communication gap here


You just haven't mastered the sacred, ancient art of Spork-fu :3
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

User avatar
Uiiop
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8312
Founded: Jun 20, 2012
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Uiiop » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:41 pm

The Batorys wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
I made a fucking mistake. I never denied that it was an atrocity, but I made a mistake in not properly recognizing that it was a genocide. Can we fucking not go over this shit again?

Basically why every NSG debate thread is utterly pointless. No one will change their mind, because to do so is to invite attacks in the future for no benefit whatsoever.

People interested in constructive debate should really avoid dog-piling.
Y'all should realize she was giving the answer you were looking for before you repeated the same questions.

This is more of a general problem with this board(and internet culture in general) than any group more specific mind. I certainly know I was guilty of this and maybe still am. It's not necessary an intended action. But since someone is trying to be a backseat mod(At least in a debate club context) they should take that into account.
Last edited by Uiiop on Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#NSTransparency

User avatar
The Batorys
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5703
Founded: Oct 12, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby The Batorys » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:43 pm

Uiiop wrote:
The Batorys wrote:Basically why every NSG debate thread is utterly pointless. No one will change their mind, because to do so is to invite attacks in the future for no benefit whatsoever.

People interested in constructive debate should really avoid dog-piling.
Y'all should realize she was giving the answer you were looking for before you repeated the same questions.

This is more of a general problem with this board(and internet culture in general) than any group more specific mind. I certainly know I was guilty of this and maybe still am. It's not necessary an intended action. But since someone is trying to be a backseat mod(At least in a debate club context) they should take that into account.

Wasn't dog piling on Torro. I was trying to be sympathetic.
Mallorea and Riva should resign
This is an alternate history version of Callisdrun.
Here is the (incomplete) Factbook
Ask me about The Forgotten Lands!
Pro: Feminism, environmentalism, BLM, LGBTQUILTBAG, BDSM, unions, hyphy, Lenin, Ho Chi Minh, Oakland, old San Francisco, the Alliance to Restore the Republic, and fully automated gay luxury space communism
Anti: Misogyny, fossil fuels, racism, homophobia, kink-shaming, capitalism, LA, Silicon Valley, techies, Brezhnev, the Galactic Empire, and the "alt-right"

User avatar
Korouse
Minister
 
Posts: 3441
Founded: Mar 10, 2014
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Korouse » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:43 pm

>people still mad over the haiti argument

Let's be honest, most of the continuation of that discussion was my fault. And I have no regrets, because I'm completely right! That's the beauty of being right, Torroca. You only need to apologize when you're wrong, so make sure you're always right. It also helps to confine these arguments to specific points rather than a case-by-case reply to whatever genocidal rant one of these ""libertarians"" is going on.
"Everything is illusory except power,' the revolutionary people reply." - Vladimir Lenin

User avatar
Uiiop
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8312
Founded: Jun 20, 2012
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Uiiop » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:44 pm

The Batorys wrote:
Uiiop wrote:People interested in constructive debate should really avoid dog-piling.
Y'all should realize she was giving the answer you were looking for before you repeated the same questions.

This is more of a general problem with this board(and internet culture in general) than any group more specific mind. I certainly know I was guilty of this and maybe still am. It's not necessary an intended action. But since someone is trying to be a backseat mod(At least in a debate club context) they should take that into account.

Wasn't dog piling on Torro. I was trying to be sympathetic.

My point was that effect you mentioned wasn't intended necessarily but that it is inconsistent with having a productive discussion.
#NSTransparency

User avatar
Korouse
Minister
 
Posts: 3441
Founded: Mar 10, 2014
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Korouse » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:46 pm

In other news, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez plays league of legends.

https://twitter.com/Ocasio2018/status/1 ... 89633?s=19
"Everything is illusory except power,' the revolutionary people reply." - Vladimir Lenin

User avatar
Kaggeceria
Minister
 
Posts: 3000
Founded: Feb 19, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Kaggeceria » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:46 pm

Korouse wrote:
Kaggeceria wrote:Evil is evil.

Just because the Natives didn't get a chance to genocide Europeans doesn't mean that they weren't horrendously shitty, and I'm not going to shed a tear for what happened to them.

The first whites that settled in North America were privileged enough to buy huge amounts of supplies, but since there wasn't any land, they went to America and decided to steal and lie for it. There were more than a few deserved scalpings. Same with South America, except that place had full-scale Empires and was way more egalitarian when it came to genders.

And there we go.

See what I mean?

Consistency is just too difficult. This is why I just really don't give a fuck anymore.
The Kaggecerian Realm (PMT)
I'm just a simple man trying to make my way in the universe
NSG's only Jewish Nazi with the spookiest flag

User avatar
The Batorys
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5703
Founded: Oct 12, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby The Batorys » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:46 pm

Uiiop wrote:
The Batorys wrote:Wasn't dog piling on Torro. I was trying to be sympathetic.

My point was that effect you mentioned wasn't intended necessarily but that it is inconsistent with having a productive discussion.

Just seemed to me that if this is what happens if someone changes their mind about a topic, it discourages anyone from doing so, or at least admitting to having changed their mind.
Mallorea and Riva should resign
This is an alternate history version of Callisdrun.
Here is the (incomplete) Factbook
Ask me about The Forgotten Lands!
Pro: Feminism, environmentalism, BLM, LGBTQUILTBAG, BDSM, unions, hyphy, Lenin, Ho Chi Minh, Oakland, old San Francisco, the Alliance to Restore the Republic, and fully automated gay luxury space communism
Anti: Misogyny, fossil fuels, racism, homophobia, kink-shaming, capitalism, LA, Silicon Valley, techies, Brezhnev, the Galactic Empire, and the "alt-right"

User avatar
Loben
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1996
Founded: Sep 27, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Loben » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:47 pm

Korouse wrote:
Kaggeceria wrote:Evil is evil.

Just because the Natives didn't get a chance to genocide Europeans doesn't mean that they weren't horrendously shitty, and I'm not going to shed a tear for what happened to them.

The first whites that settled in North America were privileged enough to buy huge amounts of supplies, but since there wasn't any land, they went to America and decided to steal and lie for it. There were more than a few deserved scalpings. Same with South America, except that place had full-scale Empires and was way more egalitarian when it came to genders.


we paid for it with beads.

User avatar
Uiiop
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8312
Founded: Jun 20, 2012
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Uiiop » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:48 pm

Korouse wrote:
Kaggeceria wrote:Evil is evil.

Just because the Natives didn't get a chance to genocide Europeans doesn't mean that they weren't horrendously shitty, and I'm not going to shed a tear for what happened to them.

The first whites that settled in North America were privileged enough to buy huge amounts of supplies, but since there wasn't any land, they went to America and decided to steal and lie for it. There were more than a few deserved scalpings. Same with South America, except that place had full-scale Empires and was way more egalitarian when it came to genders.

You realize that scalpings no matter how unethical they may or may not be is a whole different thing than what they were talking about right?
No one was really talking about "Retribution" there.
#NSTransparency

User avatar
Proctopeo
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12370
Founded: Sep 26, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Proctopeo » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:49 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:I feel like there's a communication gap here


You just haven't mastered the sacred, ancient art of Spork-fu :3

I don't want to know where that spork has been.
Arachno-anarchism || NO GODS NO MASTERS || Free NSG Odreria

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27807
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:50 pm

Proctopeo wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
You just haven't mastered the sacred, ancient art of Spork-fu :3

I don't want to know where that spork has been.


It's only been in the most wholesome of places, friendo. :3
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

User avatar
Valrifell
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31063
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Valrifell » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:50 pm

Korouse wrote:In other news, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez plays league of legends.

https://twitter.com/Ocasio2018/status/1 ... 89633?s=19


If she were right-wing, 4Chan would be losing their collective shit.
HAVING AN ALL CAPS SIG MAKES ME FEEL SMART

User avatar
Proctopeo
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12370
Founded: Sep 26, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Proctopeo » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:50 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:I don't want to know where that spork has been.


It's only been in the most wholesome of places, friendo. :3

Ew.
Can you at least make me some tea?
Arachno-anarchism || NO GODS NO MASTERS || Free NSG Odreria

User avatar
The Batorys
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5703
Founded: Oct 12, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby The Batorys » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:50 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:I don't want to know where that spork has been.


It's only been in the most wholesome of places, friendo. :3

Mac n' cheese?
Mallorea and Riva should resign
This is an alternate history version of Callisdrun.
Here is the (incomplete) Factbook
Ask me about The Forgotten Lands!
Pro: Feminism, environmentalism, BLM, LGBTQUILTBAG, BDSM, unions, hyphy, Lenin, Ho Chi Minh, Oakland, old San Francisco, the Alliance to Restore the Republic, and fully automated gay luxury space communism
Anti: Misogyny, fossil fuels, racism, homophobia, kink-shaming, capitalism, LA, Silicon Valley, techies, Brezhnev, the Galactic Empire, and the "alt-right"

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