LWDT VI: Kropotkin's Bread Dead Redemption.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Strasserists are Nazis. They were literally a branch of the Nazi Party. They should be treated like any other Nazis, and you know my position on Nazis.

Seems a bit like "all communists are the same and Stalinists", but lovely to be here and nice to meet you.

I see no reason to treat Communists differently from Stalinists.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Seems a bit like "all communists are the same and Stalinists", but lovely to be here and nice to meet you.

I see no reason to treat Communists differently from Stalinists.

Even Luxemburgist libertarian communist Bhaskarian critical realist professors???

[Eodor]

I see no reason to treat Communists differently from Stalinists.

Even Luxemburgist libertarian communist Bhaskarian critical realist professors???

Literally Stalin /s

[Dumb Ideologies]

Even Luxemburgist libertarian communist Bhaskarian critical realist professors???

Literally Stalin /s

More charismatic than Uncle Joe, surely?

[Greate Boston]

I see no reason to treat Communists differently from Stalinists.

Even Luxemburgist libertarian communist Bhaskarian critical realist professors???

Sorry but I literally can't read, let alone speak aloud those words with a straight face now.

[Eodor]

Literally Stalin /s

More charismatic than Uncle Joe, surely?

Stalin with a baseball cap on backwards and sunglasses

[Cekoviu]

Strasserists are Nazis. They were literally a branch of the Nazi Party. They should be treated like any other Nazis, and you know my position on Nazis.

You're an Absolute Monarchist. The Left should treat you just about as well as it treats the black sheep of the Fascist clan. If I recall correctly, it does.

what? their signature says they're a constitutional, not absolute, monarchist.

[The South Falls]

More charismatic than Uncle Joe, surely?

Stalin with a baseball cap on backwards and sunglasses

Stalin in the hood

[Eodor]

Stalin with a baseball cap on backwards and sunglasses

Stalin in the hood

The real MC

[Torrocca]

They get blocked from r/all and r/popular (IDK if it's different if you're subscribed to them), which are the most frequently browsed parts of Reddit. In addition, you can't access them at all on mobile unless you're subscribed already.

It's effectively censorship unless people actively search for those places.

Is your gripe more with the idea of subs full of "controversial" content only being made available to those who actively search for them or with the inconsistency?

A gripe with the inconsistency, a gripe with potential future overreach, a gripe with the fact that they're primarily doing this because their advertisers said so, etc.

[Uxupox]

Stalin with a baseball cap on backwards and sunglasses

Stalin in the hood

Stalin would probably make a very good cartel drug lord tbh.

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

Do you know what /s means?

I just looked it up: sarcasm.

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

Strasserists are Nazis. They were literally a branch of the Nazi Party. They should be treated like any other Nazis, and you know my position on Nazis.

Strasserites were kicked out the Nazi Party. More accurately, Strasserism should be defined as a tendency within modern neonazism. However, evil by any name, is still evil.

[The South Falls]

Stalin in the hood

The real MC

He'll roast your ass


literally

Stalin in the hood

Stalin would probably make a very good cartel drug lord tbh.

That's one of the true things I've heard today.

[Eodor]

The real MC

He'll roast your ass


literally

Gulag the police coming straight from the underground

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

I see no reason to treat Communists differently from Stalinists.

That has to be one of the oddest statements I have seen on any of the Left-Wing Discussion Threads. Do you not follow the discussions here where communists, like myself, absolutely reject Stalinism? I would take it one step further. Stalinists are faux communists.

[Eodor]

I see no reason to treat Communists differently from Stalinists.

That has to be one of the oddest statements I have seen on any of the Left-Wing Discussion Threads. Do you not follow the discussions here where communists, like myself, absolutely reject Stalinism? I would take it one step further. Stalinists are faux communists.

I'm going to have to stop you right there.

[Kubra]

The problem is what they popularise, which is the soviet state, particularly under Stalin, which is never really a sign of "nuance" on the topic. Get the lot to tell you about piece-wage in Capital Vol 1, see how it goes.

There's many problems on the left, many people who don't know as much as they could, or aren't doing as much as they really should. It's about taking up the responsibility of direction. If we're talking about what being a leftist is "all about" then how come it's some phony idea about people we have some obligation to defend, rather than advancing a flexible and honest political understanding appropriate for the modern day movement to abolish the state of things? I don't think that's possible by sitting back and testing people about theory, or deriding them just because they're ignorant albeit eager.

if the point you want to make is "why don't we just accept marxism-leninism for what it is", you're barking up the wrong tree. It's considered an "obligtion to defend", because it is not understood by a good number of folks here as a " flexible and honest political understanding appropriate for the modern day movement to abolish the state of things".
That aside, calling piece-wage theory is like calling money fiction. Even if you're correct, bills still gotta get paid and piece-wage is still a particularly malignant form of surplus value extraction.

I think I've said on here before that I don't necessarily hate nazi's.
The difference, of course, is that tankies are ostensibly on our "side". They might not be the best of folks, they're often the worst of folks, but they're our folks.

To plagiarise somone much smarter than me, The people that any ostensible leftist is obligated to stand up for will not always be likable. Usually they won’t even be leftists. They will have different politics, values and cultures than you. They will overcook their steaks. They will enjoy, and perhaps even prefer, the later seasons of The Simpsons. They will make atrocious decisions in facial hair, which you will suspect they styled in a pretentious effort to look “more ethnic.” They will act in bad faith. They will have bad manners. They will be dull, they will be snobs. They will get on your fucking nerves.

but, well, they're us.

Genocide is wrong, regardless of who is doing it. When the right does it, bad. When the left does it, bad. I would rather a law-abiding right-winger than a genocidal left-winger any day. One's actions effect the world, one's beliefs don't necessarily. Don't support human rights criminals just because they are on the 'same side' as you.

There is quite a difference between genocidaires and folks online who dream of one day being such, in that one group has not committed any genocide, nor is it feasibly possible for them to.

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

I'm going to have to stop you right there.

Stop me?

[Eodor]

I'm going to have to stop you right there.

Stop me?

It's Gulag for you.

In all seriousness though how are M-Ls faux communists?

[Kubra]

Stop me?

It's Gulag for you.

In all seriousness though how are M-Ls faux communists?

I don't know about "faux communist", but folks taking an ostensibly marxist position could do with a little more marxism.

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

In all seriousness though how are M-Ls faux communists?

I never said Marxist-Leninists. I said Stalinists. Not all Marxist-Leninists are Stalinists. Lukács comes to mind, but there are many others.

[Eodor]

In all seriousness though how are M-Ls faux communists?

I never said Marxist-Leninists. I said Stalinists. Not all Marxist-Leninists are Stalinists. Lukács comes to mind, but there are many others.

Stalin created Marxism-Leninism

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

Stalin created Marxism-Leninism

Trotsky would have disagreed with you.

[Orostan]

1) This is not true. The Soviet Union did not have time to sort through every person of an ethnic group that collaborated with the Germans or the resources. The Soviet Union was not racist in the slightest here, as deporting ethnic groups was not done out of a dislike of those groups. Had that been true, the USSR would not have given economic assets to them and provided supplies.

2) The issue was high rates of collaboration. The millions of Soviet partisans and Tripp’s that fought for the Soviet Union versus the groups that fought against it make for a low rate among Russians. Even then, the Soviet government took measures after the war to make sure that Russian collaborators did not get away by keeping all former POWs in camps while they sorted through them, eventually releasing 80% of them.

3) Ethnic cleansing is not legitimate, and the reason why I dispute your idea that this was ethnic cleansing is because the deported were given supplies and houses in Central Asia to establish themselves. Had the USSR wanted to remove them permanently, they’d have exiled them from the country or something.

4) Yes, there was expropriation. Yes, the exiles were a bad thing, and I’d prefer it if they could have been avoided. However, for points described above, this does not constitute evidence of racism or evidence of a master ethnicity.

5) It is not generous. It is the bare minimum the Soviet state should have done and did.

6) I can find no evidence that they starved, only that they froze and had disease problems. I already said before that I don’t like either of these things and that I do not think it was deliberate.

Also, I don’t think the NKVD killed people. I can only find some statements that they wrote down the names of those they didn’t get to deport later. I can however find claims that the NKVD did burn people to death and kill prisoners at the start of WWII. It is not a coincidence these claims come from Nazi Germany.

And lastly, I will never unironically say “stalin did nothing wrong”. Stalin made mistakes, many of which I think could have been avoided had he done things differently.

1. Judging one person by the crimes of another of their ethnicity is pretty much racism. To assert that it was justified or legitimate is ridiculous.
2. How high do the rates have to be to visit punishment on an entire ethnic group?
3. Ethnic cleansing simply means you push people from a particular ethnicity from an area. That's what it is.

1) You are ignoring the context of this. Had the government actually been racist they would have thrown all the deportees in gulags. They did not, and instead just moved them.

2) Again, you are ignoring the context of this. The Red Army did not have the time to go and root out every German collaborator.

3) That’s not what it is typically taken to mean though.

I want to make it very clear that I do not like that policy. I can see, however, why the Soviet leadership thought it necessary at the time. NKVD agents did these operations very quickly, and it’s my opinion that these deaths in transit, while they certainly could have been avoided, were not due to deliberate policy but rather the quickness of the operations. I do not pretend like “ethnic cleansing” is a good thing but you’ve got to put yourself in Stalin’s boots here. There were hostile elements among these ethnic groups in high percentages. Deporting all of them was the easiest and most effective option. And again, it was not a good option.

Hello Adolf.

The Soviet Union did not commit genocide during WWII or at any other period.