LWDT VI: Kropotkin's Bread Dead Redemption.

[Kowani]

That's how insane our power is. We can up and decide no individuals of a particular variety will exist in the countryside of the middle east and get maybe a passing grade. (Though it does mean perpetual low-level war.)

I agree. The U.S. would likely be responsible for most of the devastation.

De-Islamification of the middle east might be more desirable and practical than christianization.

That's Western colonialism. The Western world has no right to dictate the religious allegiances of people in other societies.

Daily reminder that Islamic countries are the only countries with the death penalty for apostasy.

Also, rights are meaningless without force to back them up. I may technically have the right to my own personal property, but if someone holding a pistol climbs through the window and says: Hand over your wallet, my rights are going to sit the fuck down and shut up. There's a
quote for this kind of situation that I think fits pretty well: "There is freedom of speech, but I cannot guarantee freedom after speech." And when Idi Amin fucking Dada notices the flaws in your argument, you need a better argument.

In this case, the Western world which doesn't have problems like stoning, homophobia leading to death, suppression of free speech (mostly), civil wars (Although that one's usually not exclusively the ME's fault), women having very few rights, blah blah blah, seems to be pretty justified in telling Middle Eastern cultures that some of their practices look barbaric. Yeah, some of these are cultural values, not being in civil war seems to be pretty good for everyone. Coincidentally, how many people do you think have gone free after committing crimes because the only witness against them was a woman? Oops.

[Second Empire of America]

You can't "make" people accept your supremacy over them without the threat of violence. (and vertical hierarchy is inevitably about dominance and supremacy)

There are actually plenty of people who would accept other's supremacy over them without any violence or threats. Vertical hierarchies have to start somewhere, after all. What I'm saying is that hierarchies can't grow any larger than these people without the threat of violence.

[Second Empire of America]

I agree. The U.S. would likely be responsible for most of the devastation.



That's Western colonialism. The Western world has no right to dictate the religious allegiances of people in other societies.

Daily reminder that Islamic countries are the only countries with the death penalty for apostasy.

Also, rights are meaningless without force to back them up. I may technically have the right to my own personal property, but if someone holding a pistol climbs through the window and says: Hand over your wallet, my rights are going to sit the fuck down and shut up. There's a
quote for this kind of situation that I think fits pretty well: "There is freedom of speech, but I cannot guarantee freedom after speech." And when Idi Amin fucking Dada notices the flaws in your argument, you need a better argument.

In this case, the Western world which doesn't have problems like stoning, homophobia leading to death, suppression of free speech (mostly), civil wars (Although that one's usually not exclusively the ME's fault), women having very few rights, blah blah blah, seems to be pretty justified in telling Middle Eastern cultures that some of their practices look barbaric. Yeah, some of these are cultural values, not being in civil war seems to be pretty good for everyone. Coincidentally, how many people do you think have gone free after committing crimes because the only witness against them was a woman? Oops.

In the middle ages, Christian-majority nations were be even worse on human rights issues. If Christianity can improve, Islam can too.

(I am not Christian or Muslim, so I'm impartial in this petty religious feud you have.)

[Greate Boston]

Daily reminder that Islamic countries are the only countries with the death penalty for apostasy.

Also, rights are meaningless without force to back them up. I may technically have the right to my own personal property, but if someone holding a pistol climbs through the window and says: Hand over your wallet, my rights are going to sit the fuck down and shut up. There's a
quote for this kind of situation that I think fits pretty well: "There is freedom of speech, but I cannot guarantee freedom after speech." And when Idi Amin fucking Dada notices the flaws in your argument, you need a better argument.

In this case, the Western world which doesn't have problems like stoning, homophobia leading to death, suppression of free speech (mostly), civil wars (Although that one's usually not exclusively the ME's fault), women having very few rights, blah blah blah, seems to be pretty justified in telling Middle Eastern cultures that some of their practices look barbaric. Yeah, some of these are cultural values, not being in civil war seems to be pretty good for everyone. Coincidentally, how many people do you think have gone free after committing crimes because the only witness against them was a woman? Oops.

In the middle ages, Christian-majority nations were be even worse on human rights issues. If Christianity can improve, Islam can too.

(I am not Christian or Muslim, so I'm impartial in this petty religious feud you have.)

Um, no. Christianity, at its worst, was never as bad as Islam has ever been. (And Christianity didn't 'reform' into something better, It's power in the political structure was slowly phased out after the Peace at Augsburg (maybe even before that).

[Bakery Hill]

In the middle ages, Christian-majority nations were be even worse on human rights issues. If Christianity can improve, Islam can too.

(I am not Christian or Muslim, so I'm impartial in this petty religious feud you have.)

Um, no. Christianity, at its worst, was never as bad as Islam has ever been. (And Christianity didn't 'reform' into something better, It's power in the political structure was slowly phased out after the Peace at Augsburg (maybe even before that).

Damn that's a hard statement to prove.

[Second Empire of America]

Both religions treated women like crap up until a century ago. Medieval Christians forced millions of people to convert against their will. Medieval Islam, while almost as bad, offered some protections to Christians and Jews (though not to other religions) whereas Christians persecuted everyone from all non-Christian religions. Many Christian nations killed people for homosexuality, many Christian nations had the death penalty for apostasy, etc.

[Greate Boston]

Um, no. Christianity, at its worst, was never as bad as Islam has ever been. (And Christianity didn't 'reform' into something better, It's power in the political structure was slowly phased out after the Peace at Augsburg (maybe even before that).

Damn that's a hard statement to prove.

Which part? the "its power in the political structure was slowly phased out" or "didn't reform into something better"? (because the first is easily provable by the inplementation of secularism and similar policies, something that really started in late 1400s, but didn't become relevant until after The Catholic Church had lost its power in European politics (i.e. "cuius regio, eius religio"), while the second can be seen by how similar in action the various factions of Christianity were (regarding the oppression part, of course)

Or "at its worst, never as bad as Islam has ever been"? I admit, the third statement may be somewhat addled by my personal hatred for Islam, but I do believe that while Christians have committed worse atrocities than Muslims (and the gap between the death tolls is so high you wouldn't believe it), Christianity wasn't responsible for it, while Islam as a religion was the sole reason for the murders/atrocities committed by the Muslims (because they literally did those 'فی سبیل الله' and in order to further Islam as a political religion.

Both religions treated women like crap up until a century ago. Medieval Christians forced millions of people to convert against their will. Medieval Islam, while almost as bad, offered some protections to Christians and Jews (though not to other religions) whereas Christians persecuted everyone from all non-Christian religions. Many Christian nations killed people for homosexuality, many Christian nations had the death penalty for apostasy, etc.

Are you suggesting people didn't die for homosexuality, apostasy, fornication, adultery, etc. and weren't whipped for a level of petty "crimes" that even Christianity didn't punish people for?
(And yeah, suggesting Muslims didn't forcibly convert those of other religions (i.e. Zoroastrianism in Persia, paganism in Arabia, Christianity in Byzantine Empire) to Islam upon conquering their territories? Because boy, do I have a surprise for you.

[Second Empire of America]

Are you suggesting people didn't die for homosexuality, apostasy, fornication, adultery, etc. and weren't whipped for a level of petty "crimes" that even Christianity didn't punish people for?
(And yeah, suggesting Muslims didn't forcibly convert those of other religions (i.e. Zoroastrianism in Persia, paganism in Arabia, Christianity in Byzantine Empire) to Islam upon conquering their territories? Because boy, do I have a surprise for you.

No I didn't. Try rereading my post. Islam did forcibly convert people, they just made exceptions for Christians and Jews, who had to pay discriminatory taxes instead. Christianity didn't make any exceptions, and forcibly converted people from every other religion. I don't really see much of a difference between the two.

[Painisia]

Wait, Marxists and Communists espouse the welfare state? So Communism and its tendencies is something deeper than just collectivization of property?

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

Wait, Marxists and Communists espouse the welfare state? So Communism and its tendencies is something deeper than just collectivization of property?

The Welfare State is social democracy, Keynesianism, or, in the U.S., Franklin Delano Roosevelt's New Deal, not communism.

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

I came across this libertarian Marxist tendency map, which may be useful to some people:

[Bakery Hill]

Wait, Marxists and Communists espouse the welfare state? So Communism and its tendencies is something deeper than just collectivization of property?

wut

[Torrocca]

Wait, Marxists and Communists espouse the welfare state? So Communism and its tendencies is something deeper than just collectivization of property?

The welfare state goes wholly in conflict with Marxism and Communism.

[Nekokuni]

Does anyone have a favorite left-wing poem? Mine is an anti-war poem by feminist and pacifist Yosano Akiko during the Russo-Japanese War.

Never let them kill you, brother!
His Imperial Majesty would not come out to fight ...
How could He possibly make them believe
that it is honourable to die?

[Democratic Communist Federation]

Does anyone have a favorite left-wing poem? Mine is an anti-war poem by feminist and pacifist Yosano Akiko during the Russo-Japanese War.

Mine is one I wrote, which is, I suppose, why I wrote it:

O weary wayfarer!
The Rubicon hath been crossed.
Providence, the Beloved, gazeth askance on the dust.
The protection, once proffered, is removed summarily.
In the meantime, the appointed hour doth arrive.
Oddly, no one, save a scattering, even taketh notice.

The foolish souls of the Earth are many multitudes.
They anticipate, haply sketch out, political battles.
Yea! These shalt, woefully, ne’er materialize.
Verily, abandon, ye, this world’s moribund creatures.
Grant them a return to their self–serving desires.
Whereupon their deaths wilt forthwith come to pass.
Lo! Those ill–fated beings scurry to bury one another.

Mourn now, thou voyager, for the imminent future.
Ere long, the comedy of errors resulteth in tragedy.
Posthaste, the Unifying Essence of Nature ariseth.
She is attired, befittingly, in all Her righteous glory.
Her cherubic head turneth to the left and to the right.
By and by, She mightily manifesteth Her vengeance.
The wrath of the dialectic proceedeth from Her brow.

[Proctopeo]

Does anyone have a favorite left-wing poem? Mine is an anti-war poem by feminist and pacifist Yosano Akiko during the Russo-Japanese War.

Never let them kill you, brother!
His Imperial Majesty would not come out to fight ...
How could He possibly make them believe
that it is honourable to die?

Does this count?

There once was a man from Nantucket
Who kept all his cash in a bucket.
But his daughter, named Nan,
Ran away with a man
And as for the bucket, Nantucket.

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

National Syndicalist Catgirl Thearchy

Just a question: Do you consider yourself both a Leftist and a national syndicalist? Usually, national syndicalists are right-wing, while revolutionary syndicalists are left-wing. I realize that these categories may be a bit fluid, but I thought I would ask nonetheless.

[Nekokuni]

National Syndicalist Catgirl Thearchy

Just a question: Do you consider yourself both a Leftist and a national syndicalist? Usually, national syndicalists are right-wing, while revolutionary syndicalists are left-wing. I realize that these categories may be a bit fluid, but I thought I would ask nonetheless.

Oh, no, sorry for the confusion lol. IC is short for “in-character.” it's meant to indicate what my fictional nation is, and not what I personally believe. I don't consider myself a Leftist because most of my views come from the Kokugaku (National Learning), which was an early nationalist movement centered around Nihonjinron.

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

Oh, no, sorry for the confusion lol. IC is short for “in-character.” it's meant to indicate what my fictional nation is, and not what I personally believe. I don't consider myself a Leftist because most of my views come from the Kokugaku (National Learning), which was an early nationalist movement centered around Nihonjinron.

Okay, thank you for the explanation. I would like to visit your country someday.

[Cekoviu]

Oh, no, sorry for the confusion lol. IC is short for “in-character.” it's meant to indicate what my fictional nation is, and not what I personally believe. I don't consider myself a Leftist because most of my views come from the Kokugaku (National Learning), which was an early nationalist movement centered around Nihonjinron.

Okay, thank you for the explanation. I would like to visit your country someday.

i recommend nara. the deer are absolutely amazing. it may have been my favorite place when i went.
aside from that, also hit kyōto for the cool architecture.

[Silver Commonwealth]

Does anyone have a favorite left-wing poem? Mine is an anti-war poem by feminist and pacifist Yosano Akiko during the Russo-Japanese War.

Never let them kill you, brother!
His Imperial Majesty would not come out to fight ...
How could He possibly make them believe
that it is honourable to die?

Khm, I haven't found a favorite left-wing poem yet, but I am not really into poems myself, so...

[Aellex]

Does anyone have a favorite left-wing poem? Mine is an anti-war poem by feminist and pacifist Yosano Akiko during the Russo-Japanese War.

Never let them kill you, brother!
His Imperial Majesty would not come out to fight ...
How could He possibly make them believe
that it is honourable to die?

To stay in the same spirit as your poem, here is one of the few I've ever learnt myself in my life.

C’est un trou de verdure, où chante une rivière
Accrochant follement aux herbes des haillons
D’argent; où le soleil, de la montagne fière,
Luit: c’est un petit val qui mousse de rayons.

Un soldat jeune, bouche ouverte, tête nue,
Et la nuque baignant dans le frais cresson bleu,
Dort; il est étendu dans l’herbe, sous la nue,
Pâle dans son lit vert où la lumière pleut.

Les pieds dans les glaïeuls, il dort. Souriant comme
Sourirait un enfant malade, il fait un somme:
Nature, berce-le chaudement: il a froid.

Les parfums ne font pas frissonner sa narine;
Il dort dans le soleil, la main sur sa poitrine,
Tranquille. Il a deux trous rouges au côté droit.


It’s a green hollow, where a river is singing
Crazily hanging on the grasses rags
Of silver; where the sun, from the proud mountain,
Is shinning: it’s a little valley bubbling with sunlight.

A young soldier, his mouth open, his head bare,
And the nape of his neck bathing in cool blue watercress,
Is sleeping; he is stretched out on the grass, under the skies,
Pale in his green bed where the light falls like rain.

Feet in the gladiolas, he is sleeping.Smiling like
A sick child would smile, he takes a nap:
Nature, rock him warmly: he is cold.

Fragrances do not make his nostrils quiver;
He sleeps in the sun, hand on the breast,
Peacefully. He has two red holes in his right side.

[Ostroeuropa]

They hung the man and flogged the woman who stole the goose from off the common,
but left the greater villains loose who stole the common from the goose.
The law demands that we atone when we take the things we do not own,
but leaves the lords and ladies fine who take the things of yours and mine.
We poor and wretched do not escape If we conspire the law to break
this must be so but we endure those who conspire to make the law.

(1600/1700's poem, exact date and authors unknown.)

(Refering to the privatization of common land. Taking a goose from common land would be fine. Then the lords and ladies privatized it without compensating the public or consulting them (stealing the common from the goose), and punished people for taking what would have been mere days ago their own property.)

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

i recommend nara. the deer are absolutely amazing. it may have been my favorite place when i went.
aside from that, also hit kyōto for the cool architecture.

Ty.

[Painisia]

Dumb Ideologies in a nutshell:

https://youtu.be/XmBWOIg_FCE?t=21