LWDT VI: Kropotkin's Bread Dead Redemption.

by **Ostroeuropa** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:04 pm

Idk if i'm center-left or far-left. Radical centre-left maybe.

by **Senator Huey Long** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:05 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:The reverse Mosley.

Exactly, except not as bad. The line between Kaiserreich Mosley and the real Mosley is pretty clear, whereas with Long it blurs a bit. I don't think any Kaiserreich Mosley admirers would share that admiration for the real man, whereas many Kaiserreich Long admirers do because they don't know better.

by **Torrocca** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:12 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:Idk if i'm center-left or far-left. Radical centre-left maybe.

... National Syndicalist, but self-described as leftist?

Does not compute.

NEA · by **Democratic Communist Federation** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:29 pm

Torrocca wrote:... National Syndicalist, but self-described as leftist?

Does not compute.

I once referred to him as a national syndicalist. He told me that he was not. He is a British nationalist and (separately) a syndicalist. However, I agree that his signature is a bit misleading.

by **Valgora** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:33 pm

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
Torrocca wrote:... National Syndicalist, but self-described as leftist?

Does not compute.

I once referred to him as a national syndicalist. He told me that he was not. He is a British nationalist and (separately) a syndicalist. However, I agree that his signature is a bit misleading.

It's not that misleading.
It says: British Nationalist and Syndicalist
It doesn't say: British Nationalist Syndicalist

The "and" has a reason for existing there.

NEA · by **Democratic Communist Federation** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:38 pm

Valgora wrote:It's not that misleading.
It says: British Nationalist and Syndicalist
It doesn't say: British Nationalist Syndicalist

The "and" has a reason for existing there.

Yes, but most people, including me, don't study signatures. They just look for key words.

by **Valgora** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:39 pm

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
Valgora wrote:It's not that misleading.
It says: British Nationalist and Syndicalist
It doesn't say: British Nationalist Syndicalist

The "and" has a reason for existing there.

Yes, but most people, including me, don't study signatures. They just look for key words.

Well... maybe people should pay attention to signatures.

NEA · by **Democratic Communist Federation** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:54 pm

Valgora wrote:Well... maybe people should pay attention to signatures.

Maybe, but that's the way perception works. As we speak and read, we make constant assumptions. It makes life more manageable and saves time.

That is why it is important to avoid as much ambiguity as possible in one's communications.

by **Torrocca** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:54 pm

Valgora wrote:
Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
I once referred to him as a national syndicalist. He told me that he was not. He is a British nationalist and (separately) a syndicalist. However, I agree that his signature is a bit misleading.

It's not that misleading.
It says: British Nationalist and Syndicalist
It doesn't say: British Nationalist Syndicalist

The "and" has a reason for existing there.

Personally don't feel like there's much a difference there.

by **The South Falls** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:59 pm

Radical centre-left is left.

by **Torrocca** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:02 pm

The South Falls wrote:Radical centre-left is left.

Sure, but that's not what's being put into question here.

The diametrically-opposed Nationalism and Syndicalism, while also claiming to be a leftist, is.

by **Bakery Hill** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:04 pm

Torrocca wrote:
The South Falls wrote:Radical centre-left is left.

Sure, but that's not what's being put into question here.

The diametrically-opposed Nationalism and Syndicalism, while also claiming to be a leftist, is.

Nationalism and syndicalism need not be diametrically opposed at all.

by **Bakery Hill** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:04 pm

I'm a socialist.

by **Torrocca** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:05 pm

Bakery Hill wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Sure, but that's not what's being put into question here.

The diametrically-opposed Nationalism and Syndicalism, while also claiming to be a leftist, is.

Nationalism and syndicalism need not be diametrically opposed at all.

You can't bamboozle me a second time, Falangist!

by **Nekokuni** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:05 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:Idk if i'm center-left or far-left. Radical centre-left maybe.

... National Syndicalist, but self-described as leftist?

Does not compute.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure advocating nationalist class collaboration and praising far-right thinkers (Spengler, Mosley, etc.) isn't leftist.

by **The South Falls** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:06 pm

Torrocca wrote:
The South Falls wrote:Radical centre-left is left.

Sure, but that's not what's being put into question here.

The diametrically-opposed Nationalism and Syndicalism, while also claiming to be a leftist, is.

They don't have to be.

We thought Nazism and Communism were diametrically opposed. Then NazBols came along.

by **Bakery Hill** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:06 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Bakery Hill wrote:Nationalism and syndicalism need not be diametrically opposed at all.

You can't bamboozle me a second time, Falangist!

Well it's true. They aren't opposed for the same reason national liberation movements and social patriotism don't make movements and states with a socialist character right wing.

by **The South Falls** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:07 pm

I'm a mid-left centrist with libertarian tendencies.

Center-left libertarian sometimes.

by **Torrocca** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:08 pm

Bakery Hill wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
You can't bamboozle me a second time, Falangist!

Well it's true. They aren't opposed for the same reason national liberation movements and social patriotism don't make movements and states with a socialist character right wing.

Sorry, too many bad memories to ever trust the idea of mingling nationalism with leftist ideas again.

The South Falls wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Sure, but that's not what's being put into question here.

The diametrically-opposed Nationalism and Syndicalism, while also claiming to be a leftist, is.

They don't have to be.

We thought Nazism and Communism were diametrically opposed. Then NazBols came along.

NazBols just wanna bandwagon on the train the Nazis started by pretending they're Socialists like the Nazis did.

by **Soyuz Mladorrosov** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:08 pm

The South Falls wrote:They don't have to be.

We thought Nazism and Communism were diametrically opposed. Then NazBols came along.

NazBols are literally just a silly internet meme that is completely irrelevant. National Bolsheviks however, are a real thing but they're not. fucking. nazis.

by **Uxupox** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:09 pm

Torrocca wrote:
The South Falls wrote:Radical centre-left is left.

Sure, but that's not what's being put into question here.

The diametrically-opposed Nationalism and Syndicalism, while also claiming to be a leftist, is.

Left-wing Nationalism is a thing in South America particularly since Simon Bolivar el "liberador" is kinda adopted as the head of pretty much any political movement in Latin America. Pretty much every governmental actor in South America plays with the concept Bolivarianism in one way or another.

by **Torrocca** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:10 pm

Uxupox wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Sure, but that's not what's being put into question here.

The diametrically-opposed Nationalism and Syndicalism, while also claiming to be a leftist, is.

Left-wing Nationalism is a thing in South America particularly since Simon Bolivar el "liberador" is kinda adopted as the head of pretty much any political movement in Latin America. Pretty much every governmental actor in South America plays with the concept Bolivarianism in one way or another.

That doesn't mean it's not any less spooky.

by **Bakery Hill** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:11 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Bakery Hill wrote:Well it's true. They aren't opposed for the same reason national liberation movements and social patriotism don't make movements and states with a socialist character right wing.

Sorry, too many bad memories to ever trust the idea of mingling nationalism with leftist ideas again.

The South Falls wrote:They don't have to be.

We thought Nazism and Communism were diametrically opposed. Then NazBols came along.

NazBols just wanna bandwagon on the train the Nazis started by pretending they're Socialists like the Nazis did.

So I guess just chuck every anti-colonial movement into the trash hey?

by **The South Falls** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:12 pm

Soyuz Mladorrosov wrote:
The South Falls wrote:They don't have to be.

We thought Nazism and Communism were diametrically opposed. Then NazBols came along.

NazBols are literally just a silly internet meme that is completely irrelevant. National Bolsheviks however, are a real thing but they're not. fucking. nazis.

I mean, there are many ideologies that seem opposed, but aren't.

Torrocca wrote:
Bakery Hill wrote:Well it's true. They aren't opposed for the same reason national liberation movements and social patriotism don't make movements and states with a socialist character right wing.

Sorry, too many bad memories to ever trust the idea of mingling nationalism with leftist ideas again.

The South Falls wrote:They don't have to be.

We thought Nazism and Communism were diametrically opposed. Then NazBols came along.

NazBols just wanna bandwagon on the train the Nazis started by pretending they're Socialists like the Nazis did.

I think the Nazis wanted to use it as an escape ripcord.

by **Bakery Hill** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:12 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Uxupox wrote:
Left-wing Nationalism is a thing in South America particularly since Simon Bolivar el "liberador" is kinda adopted as the head of pretty much any political movement in Latin America. Pretty much every governmental actor in South America plays with the concept Bolivarianism in one way or another.

That doesn't mean it's not any less spooky.

It's not any less spooky than internationalism. And I suppose the fact that they need be a dichotomy is the ultimate spook.

LWDT VI: Kropotkin's Bread Dead Redemption.

Which Form of Leftism is The Best?

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