Is "pro-choice" a misleading term?

by **Telconi** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:23 pm

Dogmeat wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Anyone here who advocates for the availability of abortions.

Simply a straw man, and you should know better.

Nonsense.

by **Dogmeat** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:25 pm

Telconi wrote:
Dogmeat wrote:Simply a straw man, and you should know better.

Nonsense.

What you are saying is indeed nonsense. The pro-choice camp is not in favor of abortion. And have frequently said so.

Insisting that your opponents hold beliefs they insist they do not, is indeed a straw man.

by **Northeast American Federation** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:25 pm

Dogmeat wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Anyone here who advocates for the availability of abortions.

Simply a straw man, and you should know better.

People arguing in favor of abortion being regarded as pro-abortion is a strawman now?

by **Telconi** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:26 pm

Dogmeat wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Nonsense.

What you are saying is indeed nonsense. The pro-choice camp is not in favor of abortion. And have frequently said so.

Insisting that your opponents hold beliefs they insist they do not, is indeed a straw man.

They aren't in favor of it? Then why do they protect it's access?

by **Telconi** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:30 pm

Northeast American Federation wrote:
Dogmeat wrote:Simply a straw man, and you should know better.

People arguing in favor of abortion being regarded as pro-abortion is a strawman now?

Something about "pro-[blank]" meaning to support compulsory participation or something, but only in the context of this one issue.

by **Dogmeat** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:31 pm

Telconi wrote:
Dogmeat wrote:What you are saying is indeed nonsense. The pro-choice camp is not in favor of abortion. And have frequently said so.

Insisting that your opponents hold beliefs they insist they do not, is indeed a straw man.

They aren't in favor of it? Then why do they protect it's access?

Why do people protect freedom of speech, if others sometimes say things they don't like?

by **Telconi** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:32 pm

Dogmeat wrote:
Telconi wrote:
They aren't in favor of it? Then why do they protect it's access?

Why do people protect freedom of speech, if others sometimes say things they don't like?

Because they're pro-free speech.

by **Solorni** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:35 pm

Pro-Life is a misleading term though as well particularly given the debate on what life is and the fact that being pro-life does not mean that one is against ending life through war or the death penalty. There are many pro-life people in the USA in particular who are in support of the death penalty, which is really not being pro-life.

by **Dogmeat** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:36 pm

Telconi wrote:
Dogmeat wrote:Why do people protect freedom of speech, if others sometimes say things they don't like?

Because they're pro-free speech.

Exactly. I don't want people to have abortions any more than I want them to chant "sieg heil!" However I am pro-free speech. And I am pro-freedom to have an abortion. That doesn't exactly roll off the tongue, so it is truncated to pro-choice. I could truncate it to pro-freedom if you prefer, but I suspect you'd like that even less.

by **Telconi** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:37 pm

Dogmeat wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Because they're pro-free speech.

Exactly. I don't want people to have abortions any more than I want them to chant "sieg heil!" However I am pro-free speech. And I am pro-freedom to have an abortion. That doesn't exactly roll off the tongue, so it is truncated to pro-choice. I could truncate it to pro-freedom if you prefer, but I suspect you'd like that even less.

Indeed, why not truncate it to pro-abortion?

by **Dogmeat** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:38 pm

Telconi wrote:
Dogmeat wrote:Exactly. I don't want people to have abortions any more than I want them to chant "sieg heil!" However I am pro-free speech. And I am pro-freedom to have an abortion. That doesn't exactly roll off the tongue, so it is truncated to pro-choice. I could truncate it to pro-freedom if you prefer, but I suspect you'd like that even less.

Indeed, why not truncate it to pro-abortion?

Because that would be like truncating pro-free speech to pro-Nazism.

by **Telconi** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:40 pm

Dogmeat wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Indeed, why not truncate it to pro-abortion?

Because that would be like truncating pro-free speech to pro-Nazism.

uh, no, all abortions are abortions, not all free speech is Nazism...

by **Dogmeat** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:44 pm

Telconi wrote:
Dogmeat wrote:Because that would be like truncating pro-free speech to pro-Nazism.

uh, no, all abortions are abortions, not all free speech is Nazism...

Yes, but allowing people to make a choice doesn't mean you support the choice they will make. It simply supports individual liberty. My support of 2nd Amendment rights doesn't entail the belief that everyone will use firearms responsibly or ethically, and I know that some people will not. I support their access to firearms/abortion regardless.

by **Telconi** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:46 pm

Dogmeat wrote:
Telconi wrote:
uh, no, all abortions are abortions, not all free speech is Nazism...

Yes, but allowing people to make a choice doesn't mean you support the choice they will make. It simply supports individual liberty. My support of 2nd Amendment rights doesn't entail the belief that everyone will use firearms responsibly or ethically, and I know that some people will not. I support their access to firearms/abortion regardless.

And what do we call a person who supports access to firearms?

by **Dogmeat** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:48 pm

Telconi wrote:
Dogmeat wrote:Yes, but allowing people to make a choice doesn't mean you support the choice they will make. It simply supports individual liberty. My support of 2nd Amendment rights doesn't entail the belief that everyone will use firearms responsibly or ethically, and I know that some people will not. I support their access to firearms/abortion regardless.

And what do we call a person who supports access to firearms?

Pro 2nd Amendment. I don't call myself pro-gun, and don't own any guns. It's not my problem that the "pro-gun" crowd is bad at branding.

by **Quantipapa** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:05 pm

Telconi wrote:
Dogmeat wrote:How is that any different from virtually all other monikers?

Even the outrageously particular "antidisestablishmentarianism" doesn't specify what it's talking about.

Because essentially all other political issues are a choice based concept. And yet, only the abortion debate uses "pro-choice" rather than Pro-(whatever the choice is).

we decided earlier that choice/life should be discussed specifically within the context of abortion - otherwise "life" is also applicable to everything, including drinking coffee.

by **Telconi** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:14 pm

Dogmeat wrote:
Telconi wrote:
And what do we call a person who supports access to firearms?

Pro 2nd Amendment. I don't call myself pro-gun, and don't own any guns. It's not my problem that the "pro-gun" crowd is bad at branding.

You're certainly in the minority. Do you also call yourself "Pro-Obergefell v. Hodges"? And if so, why not "Pro-Roe v. Wade?

by **Quantipapa** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:17 pm

Telconi wrote:
Dogmeat wrote:Pro 2nd Amendment. I don't call myself pro-gun, and don't own any guns. It's not my problem that the "pro-gun" crowd is bad at branding.

You're certainly in the minority. Do you also call yourself "Pro-Obergefell v. Hodges"? And if so, why not "Pro-Roe v. Wade?

Why not get less technical and focus on the topic? I think it's clear the debate on the clarity of the term is settled, seeing that no one actually has a problem recognize what you stand for when you say that you are pro-choice or pro-life. Social norm has rendered it not misleading.

by **Katganistan** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:27 pm

Northeast American Federation wrote:
Dogmeat wrote:Simply a straw man, and you should know better.

People arguing in favor of abortion being regarded as pro-abortion is a strawman now?

People repeating the same foolish statement that people are arguing for abortion that has been refuted and explained a million times are regarded as having something worth contributing to the debate now?

by **Telconi** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:56 pm

Katganistan wrote:
Northeast American Federation wrote:People arguing in favor of abortion being regarded as pro-abortion is a strawman now?

People repeating the same foolish statement that people are arguing for abortion that has been refuted and explained a million times are regarded as having something worth contributing to the debate now?

Yes.

by **Quantipapa** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:40 pm

Telconi wrote:
Katganistan wrote:People repeating the same foolish statement that people are arguing for abortion that has been refuted and explained a million times are regarded as having something worth contributing to the debate now?

Yes.

Yup. These pro-choicers insist they are not taking life.

by **The Caleshan Valkyrie** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:50 pm

Quantipapa wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Yes.

Yup. These pro-choicers insist they are not taking life.

Irrelevant. The distinction is where the priority is placed.

by **Quantipapa** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:52 pm

The Caleshan Valkyrie wrote:
Quantipapa wrote:
Yup. These pro-choicers insist they are not taking life.

Irrelevant.

I'm calling you out for making an unproductive comment.

by **The Caleshan Valkyrie** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:55 pm

Quantipapa wrote:
The Caleshan Valkyrie wrote:
Irrelevant.

I'm calling you out for making an unproductive comment.

Slow your roll, Quickdraw McGraw. Read it again.

by **Quantipapa** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:19 pm

The Caleshan Valkyrie wrote:
Quantipapa wrote:
I'm calling you out for making an unproductive comment.

Slow your roll, Quickdraw McGraw. Read it again.

I'm calling you out on posting an irrelevant comment, and name calling.

Is "pro-choice" a misleading term?

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