The Whip or the Dance of Shame?

[Infected Mushroom]

You are a high school student living in a country governed by a psychotic government. The government has given the school’s administrators 100 percent power over the students.

On a normal day, the school is run like any typical North American public school. There is a lot of bullying and social ostracization. You are not one of the Popular Kids but your reputation is Intact and you are off radar. However, the students will seize every opportunity to bully those who are vulnerable.

However, one days things change. You unwisely decide to sell some recreational drugs to some of the students. The school itself has a zero tolerance policy towards drugs. You make a few sales but one of the students snitches on you and you are brought before the school’s administrators for disciplining.

At first, the school wanted to make a huge example out of you but upon examining your records they realize that until now you are a model student and have as far as they know, conducted your duties as student with honor. Because of this, they decide to give you a choice with respect to the punishment. You must choose within 5 mins or else BOTH sets of punishments will be administered on you. Whatever you choose will be administered immediately:

Choice 1: Dance of Shame

You will be required to wear a “servant’s outfit” (prepared by the school) and “forced” to dance non stop in front of the students for three consecutive classes (about three hours) ... as the classes are being taught. The teachers will control noise levels so they can teach but they will not interfere to protect you when the students throw things at you, take pictures/recordings, or quietly snigger/mock you.

If you somehow disrespect the teachers with the way that you dance (completely subjective to the teacher’s own call) you will be beaten in full view of your class. If you get tired or for whatever reason stop dancing, the teachers will beat you in full view of the class. If the teachers feel you’re not really “dancing” (again, subjective, but their call)... yes you get beaten in full view. You have to remain standing for 100 percent of the dance period. Except for these rules, you can dance however you want.

Never in the history of the school has this public shaming method been used.

Choice 2: the Whip

It’s just like it sounds. You get on all the floor in a designated position. Then a trained administrator of corporal punishment will give you 27 very hard lashes against your bare back. If you resist, the numbers will go up.

The difference though is that this is a “confidential” punishment. Your peers won’t see it happen and the school gives you its word that it won’t leak the details of your punishment to the class. Hence your reputation and honor remains more intact.

...

There.

If faced with this unfortunate choice, what would you choose and why? Would you rather endure excruciating physical pain (but keep your reputation intact) or avoid physical pain but be completely “humiliated” in front of your peers (and be very very tired from three hours of non stop movement)? Choose and discuss.

I very reluctantly choose the Dance. 27 hard lashes is a LOT of pain, just too much... I think I could survive the three hours of dancing if I try to mentally block it all out. I would avoid making it worse by getting beaten in full view.

[The Huskar Social Union]

"Wont leak the details of your punishment to the class"

Ah no bother, no one is going to notice all the fucking blood or the whip marks and gashes all along your back and the scars they will leave, and your parents are totally not going to go fucking ballistic and get the police involved because their child was whipped in a fucking school for dealing drugs which is a ridiculously disproportionate option. As is making them fucking dance for three hours in front of people.

Tell them to fuck themselves then leave the school. Attend somewhere else.

This scenario of yours is in particular, fucking stupid.

[The New California Republic]

This scenario of yours is in particular, fucking stupid.

This.

[The Holy Therns]

This scenario of yours is in particular, fucking stupid.

This.

That.

[The Free Joy State]

So brutal, pointless, ineffective corporal punishment or brutal, pointless ritual humiliation during which your classmates will throw things at you (and in the course of which you may also receive ineffective corporal punishment)?

Attend somewhere else.

In this scenario, this is what I would do.

[Infected Mushroom]

Several things:

1. It says in the op the government has given the school 100 percent power over the students and that the government is psychotic, you’re not going to get their help here
2. The idea behind whipping your back is that you can wear clothes to cover the scars from your class
3. you can attend another school; doesn’t change the fact that as the op states, right now... you have five minutes to choose the punishment (which gets administered immediately. You have to choose or both get enforced on you.

It’s basically a horror scenario because you can’t immediately leave without the teachers immediately punishing. Also, as a student you obviously can’t physically overpower your overlords.

[Infected Mushroom]

"Wont leak the details of your punishment to the class"

Ah no bother, no one is going to notice all the fucking blood or the whip marks and gashes all along your back and the scars they will leave, and your parents are totally not going to go fucking ballistic and get the police involved because their child was whipped in a fucking school for dealing drugs which is a ridiculously disproportionate option. As is making them fucking dance for three hours in front of people.

Tell them to fuck themselves then leave the school. Attend somewhere else.

This scenario of yours is in particular, fucking stupid.

Did you read the op?

You can’t do that because then the school will force you to go through both.

[Caracasus]

Flip a coin and pick one. Get better at selling drugs discretely.

[Infected Mushroom]

Flip a coin and pick one. Get better at selling drugs discretely.

I see...

[Saiwania]

Selling drugs is an automatic expulsion where I live. Recreational or not. This situation just wouldn't follow realistically. I don't care what people think, I just want to pick whatever gets me the better outcome if in trouble. I can pick a harsher penalty if that can erase more of a bad record I have or otherwise get me off more.

[The Free Joy State]

Several things:

1. It says in the op the government has given the school 100 percent power over the students and that the government is psychotic, you’re not going to get their help here
2. The idea behind whipping your back is that you can wear clothes to cover the scars from your class
3. you can attend another school; doesn’t change the fact that as the op states, right now... you have five minutes to choose the punishment (which gets administered immediately. You have to choose or both get enforced on you.

It’s basically a horror scenario because you can’t immediately leave without the teachers immediately punishing. Also, as a student you obviously can’t physically overpower your overlords.

I underlined the last line because I take exception to it.

Teachers are not overlords. They're human beings.

And, while a child should not aim to try to physically overpower their teachers or be defiant for no good reason, there is such a thing as "pupil power" when called for and children should not ever be taught to blindly follow any authority (no matter how flawed).

True story: when I was a student, there was a hard and fast rule. Coats had to be removed all year round. One year, the heating had broken. They got it restarted, but it took several hours to warm the place up; it was bloody freezing (old post-war building -- badly built; barely 5 Celsius inside the building, sub-zero outside).

Anyway, teacher came in for the first lesson, we're all shivering (and I'm being literal -- in some offices, I'd have been sent home) in our coats. He told us to remove them. We refused. He threatened after-school detention. Long story short, we all refused to do anything unless we were allowed to keep our coats on, the teacher backed down, we kept our coats and it transpired that the same scene was repeated in most every classroom.

So, a good question would be, if the government has given anyone 100% power (which no-one should ever have), why do we still live in that country?

Also, you can't wear clothes after a whipping. The blood would make them adhere painfully to your back.

[Infected Mushroom]

Several things:

1. It says in the op the government has given the school 100 percent power over the students and that the government is psychotic, you’re not going to get their help here
2. The idea behind whipping your back is that you can wear clothes to cover the scars from your class
3. you can attend another school; doesn’t change the fact that as the op states, right now... you have five minutes to choose the punishment (which gets administered immediately. You have to choose or both get enforced on you.

It’s basically a horror scenario because you can’t immediately leave without the teachers immediately punishing. Also, as a student you obviously can’t physically overpower your overlords.

I underlined the last line because I take exception to it.

Teachers are not overlords. They're human beings.

And, while a child should not aim to try to physically overpower their teachers or be defiant for no good reason, there is such a thing as "pupil power" when called for and children should not ever be taught to blindly follow any authority (no matter how flawed).

True story: when I was a student, there was a hard and fast rule. Coats had to be removed all year round. One year, the heating had broken. They got it restarted, but it took several hours to warm the place up; it was bloody freezing (old post-war building -- badly built; barely 5 Celsius inside the building, sub-zero outside).

Anyway, teacher came in for the first lesson, we're all shivering in our coats. He told us to remove them. We refused. He threatened after-school detention. Long story short, we all refused to do anything unless we were allowed to keep our coats on, the teacher backed down, we kept our coats and it transpired that the same scene was repeated in most every classroom.

So, a good question would be, if the government has given anyone 100% power (which no-one should ever have), why do we still live in that country?

Also, you can't wear clothes after a whipping. The blood would make them adhere painfully to your back.

You make a very normatively convincing argument but the op clearly takes place in a dystopia.

Basically the teachers have been given absolute power. Even if you want to say “fuck you” to the school and/or leave the school there is still problems:

1. Right now you are being made to choose and if you don’t you will be worse off by having to endure double trouble
2. You are one kid facing a whole building of stronger and bigger, adults
3. The rest of the kids are not your friends and basic psychology says they won’t help but would rather prey on you

So it does leave you in a very bad place

[The Holy Therns]

I underlined the last line because I take exception to it.

Teachers are not overlords. They're human beings.

And, while a child should not aim to try to physically overpower their teachers or be defiant for no good reason, there is such a thing as "pupil power" when called for and children should not ever be taught to blindly follow any authority (no matter how flawed).

True story: when I was a student, there was a hard and fast rule. Coats had to be removed all year round. One year, the heating had broken. They got it restarted, but it took several hours to warm the place up; it was bloody freezing (old post-war building -- badly built; barely 5 Celsius inside the building, sub-zero outside).

Anyway, teacher came in for the first lesson, we're all shivering in our coats. He told us to remove them. We refused. He threatened after-school detention. Long story short, we all refused to do anything unless we were allowed to keep our coats on, the teacher backed down, we kept our coats and it transpired that the same scene was repeated in most every classroom.

So, a good question would be, if the government has given anyone 100% power (which no-one should ever have), why do we still live in that country?

Also, you can't wear clothes after a whipping. The blood would make them adhere painfully to your back.

You make a very normatively convincing argument but the op clearly takes place in a dystopia.

Basically the teachers have been given absolute power. Even if you want to say “fuck you” to the school and/or leave the school there is still problems:

1. Right now you are being made to choose and if you don’t you will be worse off by having to endure double trouble
2. You are one kid facing a whole building of stronger and bigger, adults
3. The rest of the kids are not your friends and basic psychology says they won’t help but would rather prey on you

So it does leave you in a very bad place

Dear gods darling, who hurt you?

[Dahon]

Roald Dahl endured repeated canes to the ass, what of las-- OK, fuck it, five minutes is plenty of time to bite your tongue, jump off, impale your heart with a sharp object... anything to end the suffering before you suffer under dicks and their dicktastic dickery.

Of course they can then do anything they want to your body, and they may even inform your loved ones that you've gone missing before you ever got to school that day, only your body's in the freezer, ready for further rounds of humiliation and mutilation, and your disappearance would only bring untold suffering upon them, but what of that? As far as you're concerned, you're dead -- your only hope as life drains out of you is that those dicks will rot off and die, rot off and die -- suffer for the suffering they have inflicted upon those who didn't want it and didn't deserve it --

[Infected Mushroom]

Roald Dahl endured repeated canes to the ass, what of las-- OK, fuck it, five minutes is plenty of time to bite your tongue, jump off, impale your heart with a sharp object... anything to end the suffering before you suffer under dicks and their dicktastic dickery.

Of course they can then do anything they want to your body, and they may even inform your loved ones that you've gone missing before you ever got to school that day, only your body's in the freezer, ready for further rounds of humiliation and mutilation, and your disappearance would only bring untold suffering upon them, but what of that? As far as you're concerned, you're dead -- your only hope as life drains out of you is that those dicks will rot off and die, rot off and die -- suffer for the suffering they have inflicted upon those who didn't want it and didn't deserve it --

Intersting...

[The Free Joy State]

I underlined the last line because I take exception to it.

Teachers are not overlords. They're human beings.

And, while a child should not aim to try to physically overpower their teachers or be defiant for no good reason, there is such a thing as "pupil power" when called for and children should not ever be taught to blindly follow any authority (no matter how flawed).

True story: when I was a student, there was a hard and fast rule. Coats had to be removed all year round. One year, the heating had broken. They got it restarted, but it took several hours to warm the place up; it was bloody freezing (old post-war building -- badly built; barely 5 Celsius inside the building, sub-zero outside).

Anyway, teacher came in for the first lesson, we're all shivering in our coats. He told us to remove them. We refused. He threatened after-school detention. Long story short, we all refused to do anything unless we were allowed to keep our coats on, the teacher backed down, we kept our coats and it transpired that the same scene was repeated in most every classroom.

So, a good question would be, if the government has given anyone 100% power (which no-one should ever have), why do we still live in that country?

Also, you can't wear clothes after a whipping. The blood would make them adhere painfully to your back.

You make a very normatively convincing argument but the op clearly takes place in a dystopia.

Basically the teachers have been given absolute power. Even if you want to say “fuck you” to the school and/or leave the school there is still problems:

1. Right now you are being made to choose and if you don’t you will be worse off by having to endure double trouble
2. You are one kid facing a whole building of stronger and bigger, adults
3. The rest of the kids are not your friends and basic psychology says they won’t help but would rather prey on you

So it does leave you in a very bad place

Okay, so let's leave the real world behind and move to the world of dystopia, a world I'm quite conversant in. I've read a few.

Name one dystopia where the hero had no friends.

Brave New World: Bernard had John and Helmholtz.
The Handmaid's Tale: Offred knew about Mayday and had Nick
Nineteen-Eighty-Four: (okay, it sucked at the end) but he had Julia
We: the hero had some people whose names I don't remember.
This Perfect Day: Chip had Lilac (and a bunch of other people for a while).

I can't think of one dystopia where the hero is hated by everyone.

And, coming back to the real world, basic psychology does not dictate that everyone else hates the person in the scenario and wants to hurt them. Humans are actually quite a social being.

[Saiwania]

As an aside, in all of K-12: I've only done one thing which is borderline expulsion worthy. That was Computer Hacking (via using an admin password that I found written down). I used it to electronically access different class grade books. I could edit my own grade to cheat if I so chose or to screw up other students' grades.

Some temptation was there, but I decided to only view the class grades. I purposely didn't make any changes. Logically, discrepancies like that are too easily noticed. That is why when caught, I only got lesser punishment. Wouldn't have gotten caught if another student didn't go up behind me and try to blackmail me. I rejected their demands and yeah- even though I was in too deep, I chose correctly in terms of not screwing myself over too much.

[Infected Mushroom]

You make a very normatively convincing argument but the op clearly takes place in a dystopia.

Basically the teachers have been given absolute power. Even if you want to say “fuck you” to the school and/or leave the school there is still problems:

1. Right now you are being made to choose and if you don’t you will be worse off by having to endure double trouble
2. You are one kid facing a whole building of stronger and bigger, adults
3. The rest of the kids are not your friends and basic psychology says they won’t help but would rather prey on you

So it does leave you in a very bad place

Okay, so let's leave the real world behind and move to the world of dystopia, a world I'm quite conversant in. I've read a few.

Name one dystopia where the hero had no friends.

Brave New World: Bernard had John and Helmholtz.
The Handmaid's Tale: Offred knew about Mayday and had Nick
Nineteen-Eighty-Four: (okay, it sucked at the end) but he had Julia
We: the hero had some people whose names I don't remember.
This Perfect Day: Chip had Lilac (and a bunch of other people for a while).

I can't think of one dystopia where the hero is hated by everyone.

And, coming back to the real world, basic psychology does not dictate that everyone else hates the person in the scenario and wants to hurt them. Humans are actually quite a social being.

In the olden times people were paraded, humiliated and brutally killed as public spectacle all the time. 98 percent of the time no one lifts a finger to help regardless of their private feelings on the justness/unfairness of the action.

If you expect your friends to risk their lives and their livelihood to save you when you’ve hit it bad with the authorities... you are in for a rude awakening.

If I’ve learned anything in my life it’s that a great deal of the worlds people are cowardly slime who’ll backstab you and join the oppressors in ridiculing you when things go south if it improves their standing.

[Caracasus]

Flip a coin and pick one. Get better at selling drugs discretely.

I see...

It sounds like a horrible school to be honest, selling some form of escape, even a chemical one, would practically be a public service at this point. Plus I would leave school with valuable work experience. I doubt the education provided at whips and ritual humiliation secondary school would be that good.

[The Free Joy State]

Okay, so let's leave the real world behind and move to the world of dystopia, a world I'm quite conversant in. I've read a few.

Name one dystopia where the hero had no friends.

Brave New World: Bernard had John and Helmholtz.
The Handmaid's Tale: Offred knew about Mayday and had Nick
Nineteen-Eighty-Four: (okay, it sucked at the end) but he had Julia
We: the hero had some people whose names I don't remember.
This Perfect Day: Chip had Lilac (and a bunch of other people for a while).

I can't think of one dystopia where the hero is hated by everyone.

And, coming back to the real world, basic psychology does not dictate that everyone else hates the person in the scenario and wants to hurt them. Humans are actually quite a social being.

In the olden times people were paraded, humiliated and brutally killed as public spectacle all the time. 98 percent of the time no one lifts a finger to help regardless of their private feelings on the justness/unfairness of the action.

If you expect your friends to risk their lives and their livelihood to save you when you’ve hit it bad with the authorities... you are in for a rude awakening.

If I’ve learned anything in my life it’s that a great deal of the worlds people are cowardly slime who’ll backstab you and join the oppressors in ridiculing you when things go south if it improves their standing.

There's always the 2%.

The White Rose in Nazi Germany stood up to an oppressive government. Their members were rounded up and killed. But they did it. Likewise, the Swing Kids. They got together to resist through music. They were imprisoned in concentration camps.

Yes, many people do take the attitude of keeping their head down and getting through. No-one knows whether they'd be one of the people saving lives or fighting for freedom until they're in that situation. Yes, I've met some truly abominable people. But I can't take a pessimistic view of humanity.

Humanity can do appalling things. They can do amazing things.

Some of the friends watching the person in this scenario being hauled away could do something surprising.

I see...

It sounds like a horrible school to be honest, selling some form of escape, even a chemical one, would practically be a public service at this point. Plus I would leave school with valuable work experience. I doubt the education provided at whips and ritual humiliation secondary school would be that good.

No, it would be a terrible school. Corporal punishment interferes with learning.

[The South Falls]

Someone might help me if I resist. Not many. But, some might.

[Infected Mushroom]

Someone might help me if I resist. Not many. But, some might.

[The South Falls]

Someone might help me if I resist. Not many. But, some might.

Not beating anyone up, I'm a weak piece of shit.

Running.

[The New California Republic]

You make a very normatively convincing argument but the op clearly takes place in a dystopia.

Basically the teachers have been given absolute power. Even if you want to say “fuck you” to the school and/or leave the school there is still problems:

1. Right now you are being made to choose and if you don’t you will be worse off by having to endure double trouble
2. You are one kid facing a whole building of stronger and bigger, adults
3. The rest of the kids are not your friends and basic psychology says they won’t help but would rather prey on you

So it does leave you in a very bad place

Dear gods darling, who hurt you?

The entire scenario has clearly soared away from reality into the flights of fancy. Based on that, my reaction to the choice will be equally ridiculous and insane: dress up in the "servant" (read: "slave" ) gear and dance. Choose both the whipping and the dancing. Bust and pop some sweet fucking dance moves while moaning sexually whenever the whip hits. Turn the entire thing into a farce. Oh, wait, it already is...

[The Holy Therns]

Dear gods darling, who hurt you?

The entire scenario has clearly soared away from reality into the flights of fancy. Based on that, my reaction to the choice will be equally ridiculous and insane: dress up in the "servant" (read: "slave" ) gear and dance. Choose both the whipping and the dancing. Bust and pop some sweet fucking dance moves while moaning sexually whenever the whip hits. Turn the entire thing into a farce. Oh, wait, it already is...

Really, these threads have increasingly turned into desperate pleas for us all to give up on life as much as IM seems to have.