Spain - Possible problems on the Horizon

[Liriena]

Lmao at this shameless fascist apologia

Not really fascist, though, because Franco wasn’t a fascist and he purged the actual fascists.

TIL dead fascist dictators are synonymous with their nations and we're supposed to lick their boots for all eternity with monuments and shit no matter what awful things they did.

Nationalism is its own parody.

Yes, yes. I suppose you would have everyone lick the boots of anarchists and marxists for all eternity with monuments instead. You will say, don’t worry about their pogroms against the Catholic Church, their murder, or their incompetence, they’re the heroes!

1. Oh, man, that changes E V E R Y T H I N G ! Feel free to continue making lazy and cowardly excuses for a dictator then.

2. What a shitty, lazy, cowardly whataboutism. Someone'a getting desperate if "the others were bad too" is the best argument you have in Franco's defense.

[Aellex]

A distinction without a difference.

Like is the case between anarchists, socialists and communists I'm sure. :^)

The sitting Conservative government has literally been ousted by a new socialist president.

It doesn't look like socialism is working in terms of reducing that. Spain needs to go the route of Nazi Germany (minus the mass murder). I'm sure with Spain's own autobahn like projects or with a massive military buildup and rearmament that their unemployment will fall to 5% or less very quickly.

lmao

[Liriena]

A distinction without a difference.

hahahaha... jesus christ... hahahahah...

I guess Stalin was a fascist as well./s

Fine. We was a far right tyrant but not specifically a fascist. What a massive fucking improvement.

[Aellex]

Fine. We was a far right tyrant but not specifically a fascist. What a massive fucking improvement.

Most people would consider that one over actual anarchy, tho.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

hahahaha... jesus christ... hahahahah...

I guess Stalin was a fascist as well./s

Fine. We was a far right tyrant but not specifically a fascist. What a massive fucking improvement.

At least you got his ideology fucking correct this time.

[Liriena]

A distinction without a difference.

Like is the case between anarchists, socialists and communists I'm sure. :^)

Why is every Franco defender here restorting to fallacies and pedantry? It's very weird. :^)

[Saiwania]

Once Spain's military is fully built up, I'd like to see Spain invade northeastern Africa to get western Sahara back again, maybe even invade more beyond that, provided it will get a buffer to keep Africans away from Ceuta and Melilla.

[Liriena]

Fine. We was a far right tyrant but not specifically a fascist. What a massive fucking improvement.

Most people would consider that one over actual anarchy, tho.

Doesn't mean he deserves to be honored in death.

I'm sure lots of Germans preferred Hitler to the commies, but we don't use that as an excuse for honoring Hitler with a fancy grave.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Once Spain's military is fully built up, I'd like to see Spain invade Portugal or to perhaps push into northeastern Africa to get western Sahara back again, maybe even invade more beyond that, provided it will get a buffer to keep Africans away from Ceuta and Melilla.

Oh, I see. You've been playing Civilization V. How cute.

[Liriena]

Once Spain's military is fully built up, I'd like to see Spain invade Portugal or to perhaps push into northeastern Africa to get western Sahara back again, maybe even invade more beyond that, provided it will get a buffer to keep Africans away from Ceuta and Melilla.

[Aellex]

Why is every Franco defender here restorting to fallacies and pedantry? It's very weird. :^)

Because every grave-digger do the same while screaming "Nazi dictator far-right!" as if it makes it suddenly ok to desacralise tombs of people they dislike.

[Liriena]

Fine. We was a far right tyrant but not specifically a fascist. What a massive fucking improvement.

At least you got his ideology fucking correct this time.

Anything else?

[Liriena]

Why is every Franco defender here restorting to fallacies and pedantry? It's very weird. :^)

Because every grave-digger do the same while screaming "Nazi dictator far-right!" as if it makes it suddenly ok to desacralise tombs of people they dislike.

If the people in question were murderous dictators? Fuck yeah.

[Aellex]

Most people would consider that one over actual anarchy, tho.

Doesn't mean he deserves to be honored in death.

I'm sure lots of Germans preferred Hitler to the commies, but we don't use that as an excuse for honoring Hitler with a fancy grave.

I addressed the first point in my responses to your posts that you've conveniently ignored.

Unlike Hitler, Franco didn't go into a campaign of genocidal conquest across Europe, tho.

[Minzerland II]

Not really fascist, though, because Franco wasn’t a fascist and he purged the actual fascists.


Yes, yes. I suppose you would have everyone lick the boots of anarchists and marxists for all eternity with monuments instead. You will say, don’t worry about their pogroms against the Catholic Church, their murder, or their incompetence, they’re the heroes!

1. Oh, man, that changes E V E R Y T H I N G ! Feel free to continue making lazy and cowardly excuses for a dictator then.

2. What a shitty, lazy, cowardly whataboutism. Someone'a getting desperate if "the others were bad too" is the best argument you have in Franco's defense.

1. Calling Franco fascist is lazing. It is also cowardly, as you’re afraid that, without the negative connotations that accompany the noun ‘fascist’, ‘Conservative Dictator’ wouldn’t elicit the intended response, which is revulsion.

In other words, leftist propaganda. :^)

2. No, the others were worse, mate. I’m not too much a fan of Franco, but I definitely prefer him to murderers of the clergy and anyone remotely right-wing. No Catholic should support a regime of people who openly persecute the Church. Btw, I love how you just ignore the Left’s atrocities to focus on Franco’s; seems like someone is desperate to not acknowledge them.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

At least you got his ideology fucking correct this time.

Anything else?

Nah, that was about it for now. Look on the bright side, next time you talk about Franco you won’t look like one of those “all dictators are fascists” guys.

[Aellex]

If the people in question were murderous dictators? Fuck yeah.

Guess it's time to break Lenin's coffin and destroy the monuments in honour of the Anars/Commies who died during the civil war in Spain, then. :^)

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Why is every Franco defender here restorting to fallacies and pedantry? It's very weird. :^)

Because every grave-digger do the same while screaming "Nazi dictator far-right!" as if it makes it suddenly ok to desacralise tombs of people they dislike.

Desacrate. I think that's the term you're looking for.

On Franco. The issue is not black and white. For some in Spain he was a dictator. For others, he was a beloved leader. So you have divided opinions in the country on what should be done here.

If it were up to me, give the remains to his family. But there are people back home who genuinely feel he should remain where he is. I don't like it anymore than many here, but it's not solely up to me and my feelings.

[Liriena]

Doesn't mean he deserves to be honored in death.

I'm sure lots of Germans preferred Hitler to the commies, but we don't use that as an excuse for honoring Hitler with a fancy grave.

I addressed the first point in my responses to your posts that you've conveniently ignored.

Unlike Hitler, Franco didn't go into a campaign of genocidal conquest across Europe, tho.

1. I'm on my phone and I hate typing on it, so I try to stick with short posts.

2. He was still a dictator who came into power through violence and staid in power through repression. He doesn't deserve shit and, in an ideal world, he would have spent his twilight years rotting in jail for his crimes against the Spanish people.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

Because every grave-digger do the same while screaming "Nazi dictator far-right!" as if it makes it suddenly ok to desacralise tombs of people they dislike.

Desacrate. I think that's the term you're looking for.

On Franco. The issue is not black and white. For some in Spain he was a dictator. For others, he was a beloved leader. So you have divided opinions in the country on what should be done here.

If it were up to me, give the remains to his family. But there are people back home who genuinely feel he should remain where he is. I don't like it anymore than many here, but it's not solely up to me and my feelings.

IIRC his family (when he died) said he wanted to be buried in Madrid, so they should have really buried him there tbh.

[Liriena]

If the people in question were murderous dictators? Fuck yeah.

Guess it's time to break Lenin's coffin and destroy the monuments in honour of the Anars/Commies who died during the civil war in Spain, then. :^)

"But what about the commies????"

^ a totally legit and serious argument that doesn't at all deflect from the actual person in question and his own legacy.

Say what you will about Saiwania, but at least he's directly defending right-wing tyranny, rather than just pointing the finger at "the other side" as if left-wingers being shitty made Franco good.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Desacrate. I think that's the term you're looking for.

On Franco. The issue is not black and white. For some in Spain he was a dictator. For others, he was a beloved leader. So you have divided opinions in the country on what should be done here.

If it were up to me, give the remains to his family. But there are people back home who genuinely feel he should remain where he is. I don't like it anymore than many here, but it's not solely up to me and my feelings.

IIRC his family (when he died) said he wanted to be buried in Madrid, so they should have really buried him there tbh.

I really can't say but if his family is willing to receive his remains, like it's been said, then the gov't should just leave it up to the family to bury him in a place of their choosing. If it's Madrid, and following any requests from him, then sure. I see no problem with giving the remains to them.

[Liriena]

Anything else?

Nah, that was about it for now. Look on the bright side, next time you talk about Franco you won’t look like one of those “all dictators are fascists” guys.

Woohoo!

[FelrikTheDeleted]

Nah, that was about it for now. Look on the bright side, next time you talk about Franco you won’t look like one of those “all dictators are fascists” guys.

Woohoo!

See, you get it!

[Aellex]

Desacrate. I think that's the term you're looking for.

Bad habit of mine than to just anglicise a French term and hopes it works instead of just googling the translation. :/

On Franco. The issue is not black and white. For some in Spain he was a dictator. For others, he was a beloved leader. So you have divided opinions in the country on what should be done here.

If it were up to me, give the remains to his family. But there are people back home who genuinely feel he should remain where he is. I don't like it anymore than many here, but it's not solely up to me and my feelings.

Tbh, I just dislike the idea of breaking monuments for the deads or digging up a corpse, no matter who they're dedicated to or how awful the person was.
Franco-ism is essentially dead in Spain from what I've heard so I don't think there is much point to do that anyway.