Spain - Possible problems on the Horizon

[Pasong Tirad]

I think it's less about being afraid of spooky fascist skelletons and more about not giving him undeserved honors by placing him in such a place. A dictator should be buried in shame, not in a place meant to honor and revere the victims of a civil war.

For many in Spain, he wasn't a fascist dictator. That's the rub. But I do understand. That's no place for him. There shouldn't be a place of remembrance for the likes of him.

Don't worry, countries giving dead dictators more honor than they deserve is a worldwide phenomenon. I can understand the people who want to just scatter his remains, but I'm personally in the camp of just burying him in an unmarked grave - give the dead some dignity, at least - so fascists can't make a pilgrimage to his body. You know, like what they're doing with Mussolini's body in Predappio.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

For many in Spain, he wasn't a fascist dictator. That's the rub. But I do understand. That's no place for him. There shouldn't be a place of remembrance for the likes of him.

Don't worry, countries giving dead dictators more honor than they deserve is a worldwide phenomenon. I'm in the camp of just burying him in an unmarked grave so fascists can't make a pilgrimage to his body. You know, like what they're doing with Mussolini's body in Predappio.

The only thing I do worry about is if this were to become just historical revisionism.

[Chan Island]

From what I understand, the Spanish economy is slowly moving to a better place nowadays. Now probably is a good time for them to focus on the cultural/structural issues that so threaten the nation's stability (and very existence).

spain is now the sick man of europe.

There is no possible metric that can be used that doesn't put Italy in that box nowadays.

[Pasong Tirad]

Don't worry, countries giving dead dictators more honor than they deserve is a worldwide phenomenon. I'm in the camp of just burying him in an unmarked grave so fascists can't make a pilgrimage to his body. You know, like what they're doing with Mussolini's body in Predappio.

The only thing I do worry about is if this were to become just historical revisionism.

If this thread's "Franco wasn't that bad!" rhetoric is a sign, then it looks like Spain already has a revisionist problem.

As are all countries with a recent history with dictators. "Golden age" ideologues and all that.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

The only thing I do worry about is if this were to become just historical revisionism.

If this thread's "Franco wasn't that bad!" rhetoric is a sign, then it looks like Spain already has a revisionist problem.

As are all countries with a recent history with dictators. "Golden age" ideologues and all that.

It's a split, yes. For many he was a dictator, for many others he was a benevolent leader.

[Imperializt Russia]

spain is now the sick man of europe.

There is no possible metric that can be used that doesn't put Italy in that box nowadays.

"Sick man of Europe" is also a blatant meme that has been used to describe the entire original EU8.

[Mystic Warriors]

I hope they don't go to the right.

[Saiwania]

I hope they don't go to the right.

Spain has had such high unemployment for so long. It is expected that it will go right.

[Catalan Democracy]

As much of a dick that Franco was, he should remain in his mausoleum. To move him would be an insult to history.

Why would someone be so twisted as to want to disturb the dead?

The family of Franco said that they want his rests.

[North Iruth]

As much of a dick that Franco was, he should remain in his mausoleum. To move him would be an insult to history.

Why would someone be so twisted as to want to disturb the dead?

The family of Franco said that they want his rests.

Because they don't want the Government to manage his rests.

[Aellex]

TIL dead fascist dictators are synonymous with their nations and we're supposed to lick their boots for all eternity with monuments and shit no matter what awful things they did.

Nationalism is its own parody.

Because exhuming someone's corpse years after his death for a cheap political point is much better and not at all a display of pathetic pettiness.

Again, whether you agree with him or not, he was a Spaniard and did enough for people to dedicate a monument to him. Do you think the Anarchists who were just a bunch of murderers themselves should have the monuments on their grave destroyed?
Is it truly so hard to just leave the deads alone?

Because he was a dictator. Dictators deserve nothing but an unmarked grave. You aren't entitled to being honored forever by an entire nation because you somehow stumbled into absolute power.

There's a reason we removed the portraits of our dictators from government buildings and military academies: "important national figures" or not, they were absolute pieces of tyrannical shit in life and should be treated as national embarrassments, not something deserving of reverence or honors. Build monuments to their victims and the people who resisted their tyranny instead.

I completely disagree on the wider point. If they had been puppets installed by foreign powers, you might have a point but the people you mentioned all came to power after civil wars or population backed coups. Like it or not, agree with their ideas and actions or not, they had the mandate of the people and if people viewed it fits to give them honours, people who came fifty years after don't get to just destroy everything because they didn't like it.
Not that most do anyway, Napoléon and De Gaulle both were dictators and absolutists, both had revolts against them and yet both are still honoured and their graves left undesacralised.

[Albrenia]

Because exhuming someone's corpse years after his death for a cheap political point is much better and not at all a display of pathetic pettiness.

Well, I mean, it does sound petty as all hell and doesn't actually accomplish much at all.

I'm still not against it, what with the nature of the 'hero' in question.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

TIL dead fascist dictators are synonymous with their nations and we're supposed to lick their boots for all eternity with monuments and shit no matter what awful things they did.

Nationalism is its own parody.

>Franco wasn’t a fascist

Is a dictator by default a fascist for you?

[FelrikTheDeleted]

To be honest, he should be reburied in Madrid, that’s where he wanted to be buried IIRC.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

Also, fuck Franco and his remains. Throw them into the sea.

Get stuffed, mate.

[Imperializt Russia]

I hope they don't go to the right.

Spain has had such high unemployment for so long. It is expected that it will go right.

The sitting Conservative government has literally been ousted by a new socialist president.

[Minzerland II]

He was the better party in the entire war, though.

Lmao at this shameless fascist apologia

Not really fascist, though, because Franco wasn’t a fascist and he purged the actual fascists.

He definitely deserves a memorial for defeating the anarchists and communists, and that monstrosity that was the Republic, who were mass murderers themselves.

If you honestly believe that, then... I guess? Maybe a different memorial then, but definitely not at the same place where his victims were buried. The Valley of the Fallen is for people who, well, fell during the Civil War. Far as I can tell, Franco's didn't get killed, but was the one that did the killing.

I would agree to that if his wishes were to be buried elsewhere. However, this attack on his grave is just a pointless desecration, its purpose to win petty revenge.

Oy. He should be honored just for having crushed the Anarchists alone.
But that aside, whether you agree with his politics or not, you don't remove the tomb of a national figure from his own soil. That's an insult on the Nation itself.

TIL dead fascist dictators are synonymous with their nations and we're supposed to lick their boots for all eternity with monuments and shit no matter what awful things they did.

Nationalism is its own parody.

Yes, yes. I suppose you would have everyone lick the boots of anarchists and marxists for all eternity with monuments instead. You will say, don’t worry about their pogroms against the Catholic Church, their murder, or their incompetence, they’re the heroes!

[Uxupox]

He was the better party in the entire war, though.

Lmao at this shameless fascist apologia

it was either get killed by the reds or get killed by the whites.

[Liriena]

Lmao at this shameless fascist apologia

it was either get killed by the reds or get killed by the whites.

I reject your false dichotomy.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

As much of a dick that Franco was, he should remain in his mausoleum. To move him would be an insult to history.

Why would someone be so twisted as to want to disturb the dead?

The family of Franco said that they want his rests.

If his family wants to get his remains, we probably should give them to them. I'm sure they can then take care of private funerary arrangements then.

[Liriena]

TIL dead fascist dictators are synonymous with their nations and we're supposed to lick their boots for all eternity with monuments and shit no matter what awful things they did.

Nationalism is its own parody.

>Franco wasn’t a fascist

Is a dictator by default a fascist for you?

A distinction without a difference.

[Saiwania]

The sitting Conservative government has literally been ousted by a new socialist president.

It doesn't look like socialism is working in terms of reducing that. Spain needs to go the route of Nazi Germany (minus the mass murder). I'm sure with Spain's own autobahn like projects or with a massive military buildup and rearmament that their unemployment will fall to 5% or less very quickly.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

The sitting Conservative government has literally been ousted by a new socialist president.

It doesn't look like socialism is working in terms of reducing that. Spain needs to go the route of Nazi Germany (minus the mass murder). I'm sure with Spain's own autobahn like projects or with a massive military buildup and rearmament that their unemployment will fall to 5% or less very quickly.

And, of course, you would say that. Genius.

[Aellex]

it was either get killed by the reds or get killed by the whites.

Tbh, both sides were utter cunts who acted like total, malicious retards like is the case in most civil wars.
No matter who would have won, Spain would have still lost like is the case, again, in most civil wars.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

>Franco wasn’t a fascist

Is a dictator by default a fascist for you?

A distinction without a difference.

hahahaha... jesus christ... hahahahah...

I guess Stalin was a fascist as well./s