Muslim sues for "discrimination" for not accommodating her.

[Kramanica]

Lol. Where'd you get that strawman from?

Put it away, plz.

De har också uppgett att förhållanden som bacillskräck och autism är legitima skäl för attinte ta i hand.

Wow what a strawman I made

Yeah, fuck me for not speaking Swedish, right?

>medical reasons are more acceptable than religious reasons

I see no problem with this.

[Conserative Morality]

Perhaps to you. Others might not see it that way. A company not wanting to take that risk is perfectly understandable and acceptable.

Bowing is a customary form of greeting for the Japanese. If she was ethnically Japanese, and bowed instead of shaking hands, would anyone be making a fuss?

Forcing physical contact on a person that does not want said physical contact is far more impolite than placing your hand over your heart.

'Person'

You presume that the objectors acknowledge Muslims are people.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Except that the cause for removal, as far as they were consciously aware, was her refusal to abide by the same rules they have for everyone else. By what standard does anything else count?

No, it was an assumption made by the interviewer that she refused to shake hands with him, a male, because she was Muslim. He thought that this would lead her to shake hands with women, which would go against the company's non-discriminatory policies. Not shaking hands isn't a problem, by the company's own admission. The Interviewer wrongly assumed that she would be discriminatory towards the customers because of her religion.

What gets me is she was going for an interpreter position, so you would assume her closely practicing the cultural standards of the people she’d presumably be working with would be a huge plus

[United Muscovite Nations]

Ah. Good.

There are two kinds of supporters of laicite: those who live in nations where religion threatens to overwhelm the secular government, and those who have extremely thin skin who can't stand the thought of religions they don't follow being allowed but don't have the guts to call for state atheism.

Religion has already overwhelmed the secular government where I live. Religious privileges are enshrined in law. We have a literal state church.

A state church that almost no one believes in.

[Conserative Morality]

Yeah, fuck me for not speaking Swedish, right?

Sorry that you don't live in the 21st century, where translating common languages is as easy as clicking twice. =^)

>medical reasons are more acceptable than religious reasons

I see no problem with this.

>> germaphobia, a belief that leads to fear, is a medical reason

Anything to keep those dirty musselmen out!

[Ostroeuropa]

No, it was an assumption made by the interviewer that she refused to shake hands with him, a male, because she was Muslim. He thought that this would lead her to shake hands with women, which would go against the company's non-discriminatory policies. Not shaking hands isn't a problem, by the company's own admission. The Interviewer wrongly assumed that she would be discriminatory towards the customers because of her religion.

What gets me is she was going for an interpreter position, so you would assume her closely practicing the cultural standards of the people she’d presumably be working with would be a huge plus

This is the strongest argument in her favor yes, and it's one i'd probably concede justifies her being hired, even if being a bit of a numpty and not hiring the best candidate is not a lawsuit worthy offence, especially when that fact is mired within this kind of issue.

[Conserative Morality]

What gets me is she was going for an interpreter position, so you would assume her closely practicing the cultural standards of the people she’d presumably be working with would be a huge plus

No, it is far more important that the Swedes show Muslims that Sweden is a White Man's Country

That really is, at the end of the day, what this is all about. The veils used to hide it are pathetically transparent.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

In other news...

Muslim couple denied Swiss citizenship over no handshake

Denying citizenship application over a handshake is pretty dickish, but no doubt the usual suspects will applaud especially since it only applies to Dirty Muslims.

That makes absolutely no sense. Since we respect Christian religious beliefs

Who's "we?" Certainly not liberals, since we've funded birth control pills and stem cell research between authorizing gay marriages and letting people work on Sunday. We've already said "fuck you" to bakers who invoke Christian beliefs who refuse to decorate LGBTQ symbols into their cakes, which sometimes I wonder if it might border on compelled speech, religious issues be damned. If that isn't a bridge too far, why is standing up to religious accommodations in this context?

Anti-Islamic Christians might happen to hold the opposite double standard, but they've already lost. Let's not shoot them in the back while they run away.

why not respect Muslim ones? The ones that don't pose harm, anyway.

In theory, you can pick and choose based on which ones you like. It's supposed to be a package deal, but what that package deal looks like is up in the air based on Qur'an contradictions.

But where do you draw the line, if not at compelling someone else to circumvent their own rules to accommodate your religious beliefs?

[United Muscovite Nations]

Memri TV.

That creepy mouse-hosting channel? If so, welcome to a world where everything should die.

Memri TV isn't a channel, it's an Israeli company that subtitles videos from Arab TV, usually videos showing either anti-semitism or fighting, because the company has the intent of portraying the Arabs as a barbarous people.

[Camicon]

Bowing is a customary form of greeting for the Japanese. If she was ethnically Japanese, and bowed instead of shaking hands, would anyone be making a fuss?

If she refused to shake their hand and bowed instead then yeah, probably. It's not really her placing her hand on her heart that is the issue. It's just the straight up refusal to shake hands.

No, the problem was the incorrect assumption of the interviewer that she would be discriminatory in her greetings because of her religion.

Forcing physical contact on a person that does not want said physical contact is far more impolite than placing your hand over your heart.

Then she should probably have found a different place to work.

Physical contact is not necessary for the work of interpreting. The company in question said that not shaking hands it not a problem.

Not, it was an assumption made by the interviewer that she refused to shake hands with him, a male, because she was Muslim. He thought that this would lead her to shake hands with women, which would go against the company's non-discriminatory policies. Not shaking hands isn't a problem, by the company's own admission. The Interviewer wrongly assumed that she would be discriminatory towards the customers because of her religion.

Did she make any effort to dispel this notion?

Suppose I say in an interview, for whatever reason, that I hate sluts. Would it be their fault or mine to conclude I hated promiscuous women but I actually hate both promiscuous men and women?

Communication is a thing and she was not effective at communicating her stance here. That's a pretty damning thing for an interpreter.

She could very well have tried to correct the interviewer's incorrect assumption. Maybe she decided that she didn't want to work for a company that had a knob like him conducting their interviews, didn't press the matter because she no longer wanted the job. It doesn't matter. It doesn't change the fact that she was discriminated against.

If someone punches me in the face because they think I insulted their brother/sister, explaining to them that I did not doesn't change the fact that I was assaulted.

[Kramanica]

Yeah, fuck me for not speaking Swedish, right?

Sorry that you don't live in the 21st century, where translating common languages is as easy as clicking twice. =^)

I'm on a phone, m8.

>medical reasons are more acceptable than religious reasons

I see no problem with this.

>> germaphobia, a belief that leads to fear, is a medical reason

Anything to keep those dirty musselmen out!

>psychological conditions are beliefs

I guess your bi-polar disorder is just a belief too, eh?

[Internationalist Bastard]

What gets me is she was going for an interpreter position, so you would assume her closely practicing the cultural standards of the people she’d presumably be working with would be a huge plus

No, it is far more important that the Swedes show Muslims that Sweden is a White Man's Country

That really is, at the end of the day, what this is all about. The veils used to hide it are pathetically transparent.

Oh I agree this is an open shut case

[Ostroeuropa]

If she refused to shake their hand and bowed instead then yeah, probably. It's not really her placing her hand on her heart that is the issue. It's just the straight up refusal to shake hands.

No, the problem was the incorrect assumption of the interviewer that she would be discriminatory in her greetings because of her religion.

Then she should probably have found a different place to work.

Physical contact is not necessary for the work of interpreting. The company in question said that not shaking hands it not a problem.

Did she make any effort to dispel this notion?

Suppose I say in an interview, for whatever reason, that I hate sluts. Would it be their fault or mine to conclude I hated promiscuous women but I actually hate both promiscuous men and women?

Communication is a thing and she was not effective at communicating her stance here. That's a pretty damning thing for an interpreter.

She could very well have tried to correct the interviewer's incorrect assumption. Maybe she decided that she didn't want to work for a company that had a knob like him conducting their interviews, didn't press the matter because she no longer wanted the job. It doesn't matter. It doesn't change the fact that she was discriminated against.

If someone punches me in the face because they think I insulted their brother/sister, explaining to them that I did not doesn't change the fact that I was assaulted.

Not hiring you isn't the same as assaulting you.
if they think you insulted their brother/sister and its a reasonable interpretation of what you said, and then they want nothing to do with you, that is not an assault on you or your rights.

additionally;
If you look at her statement, it's clear that it IS her religion that causes her to think shaking hands with MALES is bad, but it's her adherence to culture of treating people the same way that causes her to treat women the same way.
She doesn't believe shaking hands with women is bad in and of itself like she does for men.

No matter how you slice it, that's a sexist attitude.

There's also lawsuit and safety implications given religion is her motivation. There are circumstances where she should touch people or be okay with being touched for health, safety, and so on, which her religion makes her less likely to do, and which opens the company up to lawsuits from her and so on, or from the people whom she refused to assist.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Yeah, fuck me for not speaking Swedish, right?

Sorry that you don't live in the 21st century, where translating common languages is as easy as clicking twice. =^)

>medical reasons are more acceptable than religious reasons

I see no problem with this.

>> germaphobia, a belief that leads to fear, is a medical reason

Anything to keep those dirty musselmen out!

You do realize some people have compromised immune systems, right?

Also, even for ordinary immune systems, there can be scrapes and scratches on the skin through which germs can enter.

[Conserative Morality]

I'm on a phone, m8.

Then you should have recognized that you were short on information and not pressed the matter instead of making yourself look like a fool.

>psychological conditions are beliefs

[G]enerally people with germaphobia benefit from psychological therapy to question their beliefs about the severity and likelihood of contamination and the possible outcomes of it.

Thank you for proving my point. You are being exceptionally helpful today!

I guess your bi-polar disorder is just a belief too, eh?

It's actually an imbalance of neurochemicals (particularly dopamine and serotonin) that runs in cycles, but I wouldn't expect you to understand that. That would require more than two clicks to cure your ignorance on the matter, after all!

[Conserative Morality]

You do realize some people have compromised immune systems, right?

Also, even for ordinary immune systems, there can be scrapes and scratches on the skin through which germs can enter.

Are you aware that germophobia is not a compromised immune system? Or that I don't oppose letting people not shake hands for that reason?

But sure, let's pretend that an irrational belief in the danger of germs everywhere is significantly less ridiculous than a religious compunction!

[Camicon]

No, the problem was the incorrect assumption of the interviewer that she would be discriminatory in her greetings because of her religion.


Physical contact is not necessary for the work of interpreting. The company in question said that not shaking hands it not a problem.


She could very well have tried to correct the interviewer's incorrect assumption. Maybe she decided that she didn't want to work for a company that had a knob like him conducting their interviews, didn't press the matter because she no longer wanted the job. It doesn't matter. It doesn't change the fact that she was discriminated against.

If someone punches me in the face because they think I insulted their brother/sister, explaining to them that I did not doesn't change the fact that I was assaulted.

Not hiring you isn't the same as assaulting you.
if they think you insulted their brother/sister and its a reasonable interpretation of what you said, and then they want nothing to do with you, that is not an assault on you or your rights.

additionally;
If you look at her statement, it's clear that it IS her religion that causes her to think shaking hands with MALES is bad, but it's her adherence to culture of treating people the same way that causes her to treat women the same way.
She doesn't believe shaking hands with women is bad in and of itself like she does for men.

No matter how you slice it, that's a sexist attitude.

Way to completely miss the point.

Correcting an assumption after having been discriminated against/assaulted doesn't change the fact that someone was discriminated against/assaulted.

Doing X does not mean that Y never happened.

Blaming the victim for being victimized is a shitty cop out.

And Farah interprets her religion as proscribing physical contact based on the relationship between the men and women in question. Spouses are not proscribed against touching each other, only others of the opposite sex to whom they are not married. This is prudish, not sexist.

[Ostroeuropa]

You do realize some people have compromised immune systems, right?

Also, even for ordinary immune systems, there can be scrapes and scratches on the skin through which germs can enter.

Are you aware that germophobia is not a compromised immune system? Or that I don't oppose letting people not shake hands for that reason?

But sure, let's pretend that an irrational belief in the danger of germs everywhere is significantly less ridiculous than a religious compunction!

At least germs exist and do transfer on occasion, so yes, it's significantly less ridiculous to be afraid of things that actually exist and kill people than to be afraid of the wrath of a non-existent entity.

[Conserative Morality]

Are you aware that germophobia is not a compromised immune system? Or that I don't oppose letting people not shake hands for that reason?

But sure, let's pretend that an irrational belief in the danger of germs everywhere is significantly less ridiculous than a religious compunction!

At least germs exist and do transfer on occasion, so yes, it's significantly less ridiculous to be afraid of things that actually exist and kill people than to be afraid of the wrath of a non-existent entity.

Thank you for proving my point that this has nothing to do with sexism or suitability for the job, but your anti-theistic prejudices that would not be out of place for a 15-year-old newly deconverted from fundamentalism who thinks that he has found The Secret that has been hidden from the world.

[Ostroeuropa]

Not hiring you isn't the same as assaulting you.
if they think you insulted their brother/sister and its a reasonable interpretation of what you said, and then they want nothing to do with you, that is not an assault on you or your rights.

additionally;
If you look at her statement, it's clear that it IS her religion that causes her to think shaking hands with MALES is bad, but it's her adherence to culture of treating people the same way that causes her to treat women the same way.
She doesn't believe shaking hands with women is bad in and of itself like she does for men.

No matter how you slice it, that's a sexist attitude.

Way to completely miss the point.

Correcting an assumption after having been discriminated against/assaulted doesn't change the fact that someone was discriminated against/assaulted.

Doing X does not mean that Y never happened.

And Farah interprets her religion as proscribing physical contact based on the relationship between the men and women in question. Spouses are not proscribed against touching each other, only others of the opposite sex to whom they are not married. This is prudish, not sexist.

It's not an assumption if you communicate a certain stance without being clear about it.

If she had explicitly told the man "I do not shake hands with men because of my religion." would you say he's "Assuming" shit by thinking that's the extent of her position despite her not elaborating?

Then why not IMPLICITLY communicating that fact?

She views touching men other than her husband as bad in and of itself, and does not view touching women the same way.

[Ostroeuropa]

At least germs exist and do transfer on occasion, so yes, it's significantly less ridiculous to be afraid of things that actually exist and kill people than to be afraid of the wrath of a non-existent entity.

Thank you for proving my point that this has nothing to do with sexism or suitability for the job, but your anti-theistic prejudices that would not be out of place for a 15-year-old newly deconverted from fundamentalism who thinks that he has found The Secret that has been hidden from the world.

You're the one who pretended religion isn't more ridiculous. I'm pointing out that factually speaking, you're wrong about that. That's not a prejudice.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

What gets me is she was going for an interpreter position, so you would assume her closely practicing the cultural standards of the people she’d presumably be working with would be a huge plus

No, it is far more important that the Swedes show Muslims that Sweden is a White Man's Country

That really is, at the end of the day, what this is all about. The veils used to hide it are pathetically transparent.

So sure of yourself on this, huh?

Tell me, were you just as sure of yourself about the "cutting up hijab with scissors" hoax? Or what about the Yasmin Seweid one?

[Conserative Morality]

Thank you for proving my point that this has nothing to do with sexism or suitability for the job, but your anti-theistic prejudices that would not be out of place for a 15-year-old newly deconverted from fundamentalism who thinks that he has found The Secret that has been hidden from the world.

You're the one who pretended religion isn't more ridiculous. I'm pointing out that factually speaking, you're wrong about that. That's not a prejudice.

"It's not a prejudice, it's a fact!"

You really make the parallels too easy.

[Gravlen]

If she refused to shake their hand and bowed instead then yeah, probably. It's not really her placing her hand on her heart that is the issue. It's just the straight up refusal to shake hands.

No, the problem was the incorrect assumption of the interviewer that she would be discriminatory in her greetings because of her religion.

Then she should probably have found a different place to work.

Physical contact is not necessary for the work of interpreting. The company in question said that not shaking hands it not a problem.

Did she make any effort to dispel this notion?

Suppose I say in an interview, for whatever reason, that I hate sluts. Would it be their fault or mine to conclude I hated promiscuous women but I actually hate both promiscuous men and women?

Communication is a thing and she was not effective at communicating her stance here. That's a pretty damning thing for an interpreter.

She could very well have tried to correct the interviewer's incorrect assumption. Maybe she decided that she didn't want to work for a company that had a knob like him conducting their interviews, didn't press the matter because she no longer wanted the job. It doesn't matter. It doesn't change the fact that she was discriminated against.

If someone punches me in the face because they think I insulted their brother/sister, explaining to them that I did not doesn't change the fact that I was assaulted.

It is also unclear if she got a chance to explain herself, as the interviewer "immediately" ended the interview process.

[The South Falls]

Every religious book has its contradictions, and I know it's bad to engage in whataboutism, but what if it was the bible?

Show me where I advocated for religious accommodation based on Christian beliefs.

Did not ever say that. It seems like we hold Christian beliefs in high regard, yet the belief she held in order not to shake such a hand is disregarded.