Muslim sues for "discrimination" for not accommodating her.

[Ethel mermania]

Assuming all men are only interested in one thing, and shaking hands is only encouraging that demon, is very much sexist.

Please be advised that it is the men in the most sexist part of that culture that insist women be covered to avoid tempting them, and who stone women to death or imprison them for the crime of being raped.

This is not to say "All Muslim Men" or even "all men", but the "she's a sexist" nonsense is a fairy tale. This is imposed on Muslim women by men, not a "men are evil so I will not show them my body!" kind of thing.

This is Stockholm, if she fears a stoning there are bigger issues.

Just because she has internalized the sexist oppression , doesn't mean it isn't sexist.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

For once, I'm more inclined towards the politically correct side of this debacle. It's a dick move to end an interview immediately just because someone won't shake your hand. Unless the denial of the handshake was out of intentional disrespect, which it wasn't.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Assuming all men are only interested in one thing, and shaking hands is only encouraging that demon, is very much sexist.

Please be advised that it is the men in the most sexist part of that culture that insist women be covered to avoid tempting them, and who stone women to death or imprison them for the crime of being raped.

This is not to say "All Muslim Men" or even "all men", but the "she's a sexist" nonsense is a fairy tale. This is imposed on Muslim women by men, not a "men are evil so I will not show them my body!" kind of thing.

Many Muslim women, including Muslim feminists, would disagree with you. For example, most Saudi feminists have embraced the Niqab:

(People) lose sight of the bigger issues like jobs and education. That's the issue of women's rights, not the meaningless things like passing legislation in France or Quebec to ban the burqa ... Non-Saudis presume to know what's best for Saudis, like Saudis should modernize and join the 21st century or that Saudi women need to be free of the veil and abaya ... And by freeing Saudi women, the West really means they want us to be just like them, running around in short skirts, nightclubbing and abandoning our religion and culture.

[Galloism]

Melanie was his child. The court states that he owes a duty of support to his child, not to the mother of his child.

Oh, so we just punished rape victims by forcing them to pay for the result of a crime committed against them.

Let's charge rape victims for rape kits while we're at it.

Damn, it appears we already do that. The fuck people. We need to stop charging victims for being victims of crimes.

[Galloism]

https://metro.co.uk/2018/08/16/muslim-woman-rejected-from-job-for-not-shaking-mans-hand-is-awarded-3000-7849508/

TL;DR: Muslim woman refuses to shake job interviewer's hand. Cites religious faith. Claims discrimination when not given the job.

If you're going to do a TL;DR, you should do it accurately.

TL;DR: Muslim woman refuses to shake job interviewer's hand. Cites religious faith. Isn't allowed to finish the interview, and is told that she won't get the job. Interviewer says it would have been OK if she had refused to shake hands because of a fear of germs or due to autism, but not for religious reasons. Claims discrimination when not given the job.

The verdict is found here.

This is a very important part of the decision.

There were already exceptions to shaking hands for those who suffer autism and are uncomfortable with shaking hands as a result. That shows it wasn’t an absolute job requirement.

[Fartsniffage]

Melanie was his child. The court states that he owes a duty of support to his child, not to the mother of his child.

Oh, so we just punished rape victims by forcing them to pay for the result of a crime committed against them.

Let's charge rape victims for rape kits while we're at it.

Damn, it appears we already do that. The fuck people. We need to stop charging victims for being victims of crimes.

You live in the US. People are charged after they get shot all of the time. It's a bigger fix than you think it is.

[Galloism]

Oh, so we just punished rape victims by forcing them to pay for the result of a crime committed against them.

Let's charge rape victims for rape kits while we're at it.

Damn, it appears we already do that. The fuck people. We need to stop charging victims for being victims of crimes.

You live in the US. People are charged after they get shot all of the time. It's a bigger fix than you think it is.

Hmm.

I suggest we fix this by adopting universal healthcare, plus a few other judicious changes.

[Fartsniffage]

You live in the US. People are charged after they get shot all of the time. It's a bigger fix than you think it is.

Hmm.

I suggest we fix this by adopting universal healthcare, plus a few other judicious changes.

Good luck with that.

Obama tried with a Republican idea that was essentially welfare for corporations and the Republicans still kicked off. An actual universal healthcare plan would be DOA in the US.

[Minoa]

What perplexes me is how the company did not just acknowledge her religious beliefs and be done with it. It kind of reminds me of one of the phrases from Les Shadoks:

Why should it be simple when it can be complicated?

[Yohannes]

This is a very complicated story and I can understand why she felt offended by what the men did to her. At the same time (and please correct me here if I've missed this part somewhere) the article doesn't say whether she's born in Sweden or not - it only says "Muslim", which is just sensationalist reporting and it means nothing. Could anyone clarify/tell me whether she was born (and raised) in Sweden (or not)?

[Infected Mushroom]

What a troublemaker

[Camicon]

This is a very complicated story and I can understand why she felt offended by what the men did to her. At the same time (and please correct me here if I've missed this part somewhere) the article doesn't say whether she's born in Sweden or not - it only says "Muslim", which is just sensationalist reporting and it means nothing. Could anyone clarify/tell me whether she was born (and raised) in Sweden (or not)?

It doesn't matter where she was born, nor is it sensationalist to note that she is Muslim; the former is irrelevant, and the latter is a fundamental part of the story, it's why she was discriminated against.

[Yohannes]

This is a very complicated story and I can understand why she felt offended by what the men did to her. At the same time (and please correct me here if I've missed this part somewhere) the article doesn't say whether she's born in Sweden or not - it only says "Muslim", which is just sensationalist reporting and it means nothing. Could anyone clarify/tell me whether she was born (and raised) in Sweden (or not)?

It doesn't matter where she was born, nor is it sensationalist to note that she is Muslim; the former is irrelevant, and the latter is a fundamental part of the story, it's why she was discriminated against.

This is my personal belief - feel free to disagree. When coming to or living in another country, you must respect (and at least try to) follow your host country's tradition. If not, you are free to go back to where you came from - you are under no obligation to stay in your host country and be discriminated against because you have chosen to stick to your native country's ways and culture, instead of trying to contribute to your host country's society.

If the host country's culture says it is the polite thing for you to smile and not be rude to other people by ignoring them when they have tried their hardest to be professional and nice to you, then you follow that culture. If you don't, then you have withdrawn your right to be treated politely by the recipients of your rude behaviour.

This is my personal belief - do unto others as you would have them do unto you

[Vassenor]

It doesn't matter where she was born, nor is it sensationalist to note that she is Muslim; the former is irrelevant, and the latter is a fundamental part of the story, it's why she was discriminated against.

This is my personal belief - feel free to disagree. When coming to or living in another country, you must respect (and at least try to) follow your host country's tradition. If not, you are free to go back to where you came from - you are under no obligation to stay in your host country and be discriminated against because you have chosen to stick to your native country's ways and culture, instead of trying to contribute to your host country's society.

If the host country's culture says it is the polite thing for you to smile and not be rude to other people by ignoring them when they have tried their hardest to be professional and nice to you, then you follow that culture. If you don't, then you have withdrawn your right to be treated politely by the recipients of your rude behaviour.

This is my personal belief - do unto others as you would have them do unto you

And from the looks of things you didn't read the facts of the case. Because she didn't ignore the handshake, she just didn't shake his hand.

[Yohannes]

And from the looks of things you didn't read the facts of the case. Because she didn't ignore the handshake, she just didn't shake his hand.

Hi Vassenor, I am here to simply say it the way I feel it is. If you disagree with my personal belief, feel free to disagree and I am cool with that (and I am open to debating with you about my personal belief). But it would be lovely if you can avoid trying to make it off-topic by telling me things like "you didn't read the facts of the case." Thank you

[Vassenor]

And from the looks of things you didn't read the facts of the case. Because she didn't ignore the handshake, she just didn't shake his hand.

Hi Vassenor, I am here to simply say it the way I feel it is. If you disagree with my personal belief, feel free to disagree and I am cool with that (and I am open to debating with you about my personal belief). But it would be lovely if you can avoid trying to make it off-topic by telling me things like "you didn't read the facts of the case." Thank you

So how is pointing out that what you just said doesn't fit what happened in the scenario that the topic is about constitute "trying to make it off-topic"?

[Camicon]

It doesn't matter where she was born, nor is it sensationalist to note that she is Muslim; the former is irrelevant, and the latter is a fundamental part of the story, it's why she was discriminated against.

This is my personal belief - feel free to disagree. When coming to or living in another country, you must respect (and at least try to) follow your host country's tradition. If not, you are free to go back to where you came from - you are under no obligation to stay in your host country and be discriminated against because you have chosen to stick to your native country's ways and culture, instead of trying to contribute to your host country's society.

If the host country's culture says it is the polite thing for you to smile and not be rude to other people by ignoring them when they have tried their hardest to be professional and nice to you, then you follow that culture. If you don't, then you have withdrawn your right to be treated politely by the recipients of your rude behaviour.

This is my personal belief - do unto others as you would have them do unto you

Farah didn't disrespect Sweden's culture, nor did she ignore the interviewer or was in any way rude to him. Go read the article before you stick your foot any farther down your throat.

And from the looks of things you didn't read the facts of the case. Because she didn't ignore the handshake, she just didn't shake his hand.

Hi Vassenor, I am here to simply say it the way I feel it is. If you disagree with my personal belief, feel free to disagree and I am cool with that (and I am open to debating with you about my personal belief). But it would be lovely if you can avoid trying to make it off-topic by telling me things like "you didn't read the facts of the case." Thank you

You didn't read the facts of the case. That makes your opinion stupid.

[Yohannes]

---

Alright, I have said the warning (politely). It seems you both are not familiar with me. You both want to play tough internet name calling (using emotive words like "Stupid", heh), I'll play your partisan NSG game. I guess discussing things in a civilised manner can be hard for some people, after all - especially when they want armchair general internet brownie points

Hi Vassenor, I am here to simply say it the way I feel it is. If you disagree with my personal belief, feel free to disagree and I am cool with that (and I am open to debating with you about my personal belief). But it would be lovely if you can avoid trying to make it off-topic by telling me things like "you didn't read the facts of the case." Thank you

So how is pointing out that what you just said doesn't fit what happened in the scenario that the topic is about constitute "trying to make it off-topic"?

You are trying to deflect the discussion away from my position. What made you think I "didn't read the facts of the case"?

Was it the part where she didn't hold her heart? Yes, I read that part. Is holding your heart the same as shaking the hand of the other person? No, it is not. I don't care if it is holding your heart; I don't care if it is jumping up and down; I don't care if it is smiling and saying nothing whilst the other person has extended their hand - if someone extends their hand in a business setting, and that is the local custom, you shake their hands. Simple as that.

Your religion says you can't? Tough luck big guy (or big girl). I am a Christian and I would gladly not do some of the things the Bible (or my religion) say if it means that I can be respectful towards other people from different cultures (especially if I happen to visit/stay in their country).

Why do people have to be treated shit because your religion says so? Why do people have to received different treatments from you because your religion says so?

Holding her heart? Give me a break. Shake his hands and abandon your medieval sounding, uncivilised and backward religious practice - you are a visitor/immigrant/refugee/non-citizen in a civilised, twenty-first century Sweden. Their country, their rules. Their homes, their say.

The fact that she won the case in fact shows how tolerant Swedish people are. If you try doing the same shit she tries to pull in bloody Saudi Arabia or wherever the fuck she came from, you can bet your arse that she would be put in jail or worse

So, which part did I miss? Tell me Sailor Astraea.

This is my personal belief - feel free to disagree. When coming to or living in another country, you must respect (and at least try to) follow your host country's tradition. If not, you are free to go back to where you came from - you are under no obligation to stay in your host country and be discriminated against because you have chosen to stick to your native country's ways and culture, instead of trying to contribute to your host country's society.

If the host country's culture says it is the polite thing for you to smile and not be rude to other people by ignoring them when they have tried their hardest to be professional and nice to you, then you follow that culture. If you don't, then you have withdrawn your right to be treated politely by the recipients of your rude behaviour.

This is my personal belief - do unto others as you would have them do unto you

Farah didn't disrespect Sweden's culture, nor did she ignore the interviewer or was in any way rude to him. Go read the article before you stick your foot any farther down your throat.

Hi Vassenor, I am here to simply say it the way I feel it is. If you disagree with my personal belief, feel free to disagree and I am cool with that (and I am open to debating with you about my personal belief). But it would be lovely if you can avoid trying to make it off-topic by telling me things like "you didn't read the facts of the case." Thank you

You didn't read the facts of the case. That makes your opinion stupid.

Did she shake their hands? No, she did not. I don't give a fuck whether she hold her heart, I don't give a fuck whether she then says "I can't touch your hand because you are non Believers, non Arabs, or because you are a man (or woman)", and I certainly don't give a fuck whether she then smiles without saying "Sorry to discriminate - I have to follow my religion: it says I have to treat people differently although they have tried to treat me equally"

So, was she born in Sweden or not? If she was not, then she is not a Swedish citizen nor is she born and bred Swede. If she don't like Sweden's ways of doing things, she can go back to where she came from. Don't like the host country? Then go back to your home country! When I visit the NationStates forum, I don't go around trolling, flaming, and spamming pictures in the NSG sub-forum because all those are against the forum rules. When I come to Sweden, I don't go around avoiding shaking people's hands, treat women differently than men, be sexist towards women (or men), and hurt other people because my Bible or some silly medieval sounding Holy Book says so. When in Sweden, follow the way Swedes do thing. If you don't do that, that's your freedom and that is fine - but then don't expect Swedes to treat you like you are one of them. Simple as.

[Ifreann]

When in Sweden, follow the way Swedes do thing.

In Sweden there are laws against discriminating based on religion.

Just my personal opinion, but I think that people in Sweden should obey Sweden's laws, regardless of where they were born.

[Yohannes]

When in Sweden, follow the way Swedes do thing.

In Sweden there are laws against discriminating based on religion.

Just my personal opinion, but I think that people in Sweden should obey Sweden's laws, regardless of where they were born.

Yup, which brings us back to my first (original) post in this thread

This is a very complicated story and I can understand why she felt offended by what the men did to her. At the same time (and please correct me here if I've missed this part somewhere) the article doesn't say whether she's born in Sweden or not - it only says "Muslim", which is just sensationalist reporting and it means nothing. Could anyone clarify/tell me whether she was born (and raised) in Sweden (or not)?

It's complicated. Discriminatory practice by both sides I am a well known "SJW" (as the partisan people would like to call people like me in a disparaging way). But even I must go "ehhh..." reading these kind of stuff. It's just iffy.... I really, really, really wanted to support her position (the "Muslim" lady), but at the same time once she started going "My religion says I must treat people differently ", then I immediately went "Yeah.... okay...."

[Camicon]

---

Alright, I have said the warning (politely). It seems you both are not familiar with me. You both want to play tough internet name calling (using emotive words like "Stupid", heh), I'll play your partisan NSG game. I guess discussing things in a civilised manner can be hard for some people, after all - especially when they want armchair general internet brownie points

Oh, put your dick away. Nobody gives a shit.

Farah didn't disrespect Sweden's culture, nor did she ignore the interviewer or was in any way rude to him. Go read the article before you stick your foot any farther down your throat.


You didn't read the facts of the case. That makes your opinion stupid.

Did she shake their hands? No, she did not.

Doesn't justify the discrimination she faced from the interviewer.

I don't give a fuck whether she hold her heart, I don't give a fuck whether she then says "I can't touch your hand because you are non Believers, non Arabs, or because you are a man (or woman)", and I certainly don't give a fuck whether she then smiles without saying "Sorry to discriminate - I have to follow my religion: it says I have to treat people differently although they have tried to treat me equally"

Except that she's not discriminating against anyone by not shaking anyone's hands. Treating everyone equally kind've precludes the possibility of being discriminatory.

So, was she born in Sweden or not?

Irrelevant.

When I visit the NationStates forum, I don't go around trolling, flaming, and spamming pictures in the NSG sub-forum because all those are against the forum rules. When I come to Sweden, I don't go around avoiding shaking people's hands, treat women differently than men, be sexist towards women (or men), and hurt other people because my Bible or some silly medieval sounding Holy Book says so.

That's a poor analogy. It's not illegal to not shake someone's hand in Sweden (which would be the real-world equivalent to breaking forum rules on NS). The NS equivalent would be greeting people by saying "hello" instead of... anything else.

Seriously, hand-shaking is a loosely and haphazardly practiced social convention, even in countries where it is "normal". Placing your hand over your heart, instead of shaking hands, isn't some kind of great crime or socially transgressive act.

When in Sweden, follow the way Swedes do thing. If you don't do that, that's your freedom and that is fine - but then don't expect Swedes to treat you like you are one of them. Simple as.

No, not "simple as". Sweden has laws against discrimination, and where a person was born has no bearing on whether or not they are applied.

[Yohannes]

Oh, put your dick away. Nobody gives a shit.

Lol aren't you the one who started by making this whole thing fun by calling my (humbly and respectfully written) opinion "stupid"? Oh, and Sailor Astraea too. You both tried to make this whole thing fun so why can't I do the same?

"Stupid"? I guess your opinion is shit. I disagree with it tbf, and I won't try to reach you in the middle ground (where we can both agree to disagree). Instead, I will call it stupid and shit, and I hope you will reply to my emotive words

Maybe you should do what you preach so well - put your dick away first before trying to tell other people to put their dicks away? Just a thought, wouldn't hurt.

Farah didn't disrespect Sweden's culture, nor did she ignore the interviewer or was in any way rude to him. Go read the article before you stick your foot any farther down your throat.

You are pulling a good one here. She didn't shake their hands back. She ignored their professional (and possibly friendly) handshakes. Because her religion or pretty Holy Book said so... she treats other people differently... because her religion said so.

How the fuck is that not discriminating against others? How is she any different than my hardcore Christian uncle who wouldn't shake hands with my lesbian best friend because apparently she's "dirty" and it's against his religion to do so? She is no different than my hardcore Christian uncle - the "Muslim" (ugh, I really really dislike having to keep bringing this "Muslim" part up, it's like I can't just call her "lady") lady and my uncle will get along pretty well I do say so: because they both like to discriminate against other people because their religions said so.

I don't care whether it's not touching the hand of my lesbian best friend. I don't care whether it's not holding the hands of your interviewers (or the other people who have tried to be open-minded to embrace you by giving you a fucking interview in the first place)

If someone treats other people differently or do not want to treat people equally because their religions or belief said so, then they are being discriminatory as fuck. Christians or Muslims or Atheists or non Believers or whatever. I don't give a fuck

Treat people equally and be nice to others regardless of what your outdated, medieval sounding Holy Book or religion or some organised movement said you must do. Why is this so hard for some people to understand?

You didn't read the facts of the case. That makes your opinion stupid.

Yeah yeah yeah. Didn't read the facts of the case this that this that. And your opinion is shit. One internet armchair general brownie point for you, Mr/Ms tough guy/girl.

Lel

No, not "simple as". Sweden has laws against discrimination, and where a person was born has no bearing on whether or not they are applied.

Read my first post in this thread

This is a very complicated story

I know that already. So as you can see, I am a bit iffy with this whole thing. I really, really, really wanted to support her, but how can I? It would be like supporting my LGBT hating uncle. I can't bring myself to do that - it would go against my belief: that you should treat people equally/nicely regardless of what your (outdated) religion said you can or can't do

What else you gonna say now? Let me guess - you are going to say that it is not against the law in Sweden to not shake hands with your Swedish (or non Swedish) interviewers because your religion said so. And that is fine. Oh, you can also subtly harass women and subtly treat women differently than men because your religion said so - it's not against the law in Sweden! Of course it's not. But it's called discrimination nevertheless. And I won't accept that kind of stuff - not from Muslims. Not from Christians. Not from Atheists. Not from Bigtopians, Rastafarians, or Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster believers.

And if you don't like my position - that I want everyone to be treated equally? Go ahead and call it stupid.

[Kubumba Tribe]

AlHamdulillah that the sister won her case. What's the company she was trying to get hired for called?

[Camicon]

Oh, put your dick away. Nobody gives a shit.

Lol aren't you the one who started by making this whole thing fun by calling my (humbly and respectfully written) opinion "stupid"? Oh, and Sailor Astraea too. You both tried to make this whole thing fun so why can't I do the same?

"Stupid"? I guess your opinion is shit. I disagree with it tbf, and I won't try to reach you in the middle ground (where we can both agree to disagree). Instead, I will call it stupid and shit, and I hope you will reply to my emotive words

Maybe you should do what you preach so well - put your dick away first before trying to tell other people to put their dicks away? Just a thought, wouldn't hurt.

It's possible that I could care less about your faux posturing, but that would require me to spend a modicum of time towards considering the matter, and I certainly don't care enough to do that.

Farah didn't disrespect Sweden's culture, nor did she ignore the interviewer or was in any way rude to him. Go read the article before you stick your foot any farther down your throat.

You are pulling a good one here. She didn't shake their hands back. She ignored their professional (and possibly friendly) handshakes. Because her religion or pretty Holy Book said so... she treats other people differently... because her religion said so.

Farah doesn't treat anyone differently. She treats everyone the same, in that she does not shake anyone's hands.

You, on the other hand, seem to think it's OK to treat other people differently because of where they were born. ₂₆Fe

How the fuck is that not discriminating against others? How is she any different than my hardcore Christian uncle who wouldn't shake hands with my lesbian best friend because apparently she's "dirty" and it's against his religion to do so? She is no different than my hardcore Christian uncle - the "Muslim" (ugh, I really really dislike having to keep bringing this "Muslim" part up, it's like I can't just call her "lady") lady and my uncle will get along pretty well I do say so: because they both like to discriminate against other people because their religions said so.

You don't seem to have a very good grasp of this whole "analogy" thing. See, refusing to shake someone's hand because they are homosexual is being discriminatory, because you are treating people who are homosexual differently than people who are not homosexual. This is not what Farah is doing by refusing handshakes.

For Farah's actions to be discriminatory she would have to treat some people differently than she treats other people. If she shook the hands of women, but not men, then she would be acting in a discriminatory fashion; she is aware of this, which is why she does not shake anyone's hands. Farah is not being discriminatory by not physically touching anyone, because she is treating everyone equally.

This makes the story of your hardcore Christian uncle a bad analogy, because it is not comparing like situations. You uncle is being discriminatory because he treats homosexuals and non-homosexuals differently (shaking the hands of the latter but not the former); Farah is not being discriminatory because she treats everyone equally (by not shaking the hands of anyone).

By-the-by, if you don't want to refer to Farah as "the Muslim" you could trying using her name.

I don't care whether it's not touching the hand of my lesbian best friend. I don't care whether it's not holding the hands of your interviewers (or the other people who have tried to be open-minded to embrace you by giving you a fucking interview in the first place)

If someone treats other people differently or do not want to treat people equally because their religions or belief said so, then they are being discriminatory as fuck. Christians or Muslims or Atheists or non Believers or whatever. I don't give a fuck

Treat people equally and be nice to others regardless of what your outdated, medieval sounding Holy Book or religion or some organised movement said you must do. Why is this so hard for some people to understand?

Personally, I'm having trouble figuring out why you still think Farah was being discriminatory by treating everyone equally. My current theory is that you don't understand what "discrimination" actually is.

You didn't read the facts of the case. That makes your opinion stupid.

Yeah yeah yeah. Didn't read the facts of the case this that this that. And your opinion is shit. One internet armchair general brownie point for you, Mr/Ms tough guy/girl.

Lel

You can think my opinion is shit all you want. At least it's factually correct.

No, not "simple as". Sweden has laws against discrimination, and where a person was born has no bearing on whether or not they are applied.

Read my first post in this thread

I did. While impressively ignorant it was, on whole, decidedly boring.

And if you don't like my position - that I want everyone to be treated equally? Go ahead and call it stupid.

How is making the application of anti-discrimination legislation dependent on your place of birth...

*snip*
When in Sweden, follow the way Swedes do thing. If you don't do that, that's your freedom and that is fine - but then don't expect Swedes to treat you like you are one of them. Simple as.

... "treating everyone equally"?

[Kubumba Tribe]

You are pulling a good one here. She didn't shake their hands back. She ignored their professional (and possibly friendly) handshakes. Because her religion or pretty Holy Book said so... she treats other people differently... because her religion said so.

The Holy Qur'an doesn't say anything about shaking hands, that's in the aHadith. And even then, I haven't come across the Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) telling us not to shake hands with the opposite sex.