Masterpiece Cakeshop back to court.

[US-SSR]

Disagree. If the Mona Lisa was delicious it would in no way diminish it's artistic merit.

I hope you take the time to reflect on the life choices that resulted in making this absurd statement.

Beauty must be edible or not at all. -- Dali

[Ors Might]

You should be ashamed of yourself for that.

/s

yeah, I'm pretty ashamed, considering it doesn't even apply well.

You’re going to meme jail, buddy, along with the people still making Harambe references.

[Des-Bal]

yeah, I'm pretty ashamed, considering it doesn't even apply well.

I assumed that you meant it was a lie because the customer was probably a plant to test the law and never wanted them to make the cake at all. But now you've confessed and I see you for a fraud sir.

[US-SSR]

Boxing is an art. Art is free speech. Beating the crap out of a homophobe is free speech.

Or if you prefer, God is love, love is blind, Ray Charles is blind, Ray Charles is God.

Boxing isn't an art, and assault is a crime.

But I'm not advocating assault, I'm advocating artistic expression. My chosen form of artistic expression is beating the crap out of homophobes. I'm not breaking the law. Because art.

[Ors Might]

Boxing isn't an art, and assault is a crime.

But I'm not advocating assault, I'm advocating artistic expression. My chosen form of artistic expression is beating the crap out of homophobes. I'm not breaking the law. Because art.

Once you prove that sports are considered artistic expression, I’ll completely support your right to beat the shit out of consenting adults.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Boxing isn't an art, and assault is a crime.

But I'm not advocating assault, I'm advocating artistic expression. My chosen form of artistic expression is beating the crap out of homophobes. I'm not breaking the law. Because art.

And you would have a point, if beating out homophobes were considered artistic expression.

[Bombadil]

I hope you take the time to reflect on the life choices that resulted in making this absurd statement.

Well Bombadil, is not that absurd when you consider that indeed, some people make cakes into art form. There are competitions even.

It may not be as relevant as say, The Mona Lisa, but it is an art form in certain venues. And I've seen some masterpieces.

Well sure.. but in general a baker doesn't think 'today I shall express the duality of the human conditions of hate and love in my interpretation of the classic Apple Pie through the contradiction between the sweet and bitter cinnamon taste'..

I mean.. while baking can be taken to an artistic form it's primary purpose is to make something that can be eaten. That is not the same as painting the Mona Lisa.

[US-SSR]

Two great boxers call themselves artists, ergo boxing is as much as an art as decorating cakes.

That would be a sensible comparison if the baker was an artist solely because he said so. But that's not the case, so that's not the case.

Boxing involves practice, dedication, creativity and courage, all of which are as much artistic as decorating cakes. Great boxers are admired for their artistic sense and ability just as are great cake decorators. I fail to discern any meaningful difference between boxers and bakers when it comes to their status as artists.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Well Bombadil, is not that absurd when you consider that indeed, some people make cakes into art form. There are competitions even.

It may not be as relevant as say, The Mona Lisa, but it is an art form in certain venues. And I've seen some masterpieces.

Well sure.. but in general a baker doesn't think 'today I shall express the duality of the human conditions of hate and love in my interpretation of the classic Apple Pie through the contradiction between the sweet and bitter cinnamon taste'..

I mean.. while baking can be taken to an artistic form it's primary purpose is to make something that can be eaten. That is not the same as painting the Mona Lisa.

This particular baker considers his commissioned cakes artistic expression. I don't particularly find his cakes aesthetically appealing, and I agree that cakes are a thing to be eaten, but the truth is it takes skill to do some of these cakes. I invite you to check some of the videos about them on YT. I saw a woman make a cake that looked like Caesar salad. It was so detailed, had I not known it was a cake, I would've been fooled into thinking it was salad.

[Bombadil]

Well sure.. but in general a baker doesn't think 'today I shall express the duality of the human conditions of hate and love in my interpretation of the classic Apple Pie through the contradiction between the sweet and bitter cinnamon taste'..

I mean.. while baking can be taken to an artistic form it's primary purpose is to make something that can be eaten. That is not the same as painting the Mona Lisa.

This particular baker considers his commissioned cakes artistic expression. I don't particularly find his cakes aesthetically appealing, and I agree that cakes are a thing to be eaten, but the truth is it takes skill to do some of these cakes. I invite you to check some of the videos about them on YT. I saw a woman make a cake that looked like Caesar salad. It was so detailed, had I not known it was a cake, I would've been fooled into thinking it was salad.

I'm not oblivious to artistic cakes, there's a good documentary on chefs receiving some insignia for their pastries.. and some of the concoctions are spectacular.. but I'm specifically responding to the idea that baking and the Mona Lisa are the same - I'm not diminishing on over the other but saying one is purely artistic expression and the other is mixing some eggs, sugar and flour..

[The Two Jerseys]

Tell us where SCOTUS said that he did violate the law.

Nevertheless, while those religious and philosophical objections are protected, it is a general rule that such objections do not allow business owners and other actors in the economy and in society to deny protected persons equal access to goods and services under a neutral and generally applicable public accommodations law. (p.10)

Or as cited in the masterful, scathing dissent:

There is much in the Court’s opinion with which I agree. “[I]t is a general rule that [religious and philosophical] objections do not allow business owners and other actors in the economy and in society to deny protected persons equal access to goods and services under a neutral and generally applicable public accommodations law.” Ante, at 9. “Colorado law can protect gay persons, just as it can protect other classes of individuals, in acquiring whatever products and services they choose on the same terms and conditions as are offered to other members of the public.” Ante, at 10. “[P]urveyors of goods and services who object to gay marriages for moral and religious reasons [may not] put up signs saying ‘no goods or services will be sold if they will be used for gay marriages.’ ” Ante, at 12. Gay persons may be spared from “indignities when they seek goods and services in an open market.” Ante, at 18.1

So they did not say that this individual baker broke the law in this case, got it.

[US-SSR]

To be fair here, its not the baking that makes it an art. Its the decorating and design work.

Very much so. Chiseling a stone into a brick is not art, chiseling a stone into a statue is.

If painting "A. Mutt" on the side of a urinal and tipping it over is art, then so is chiseling stone into a brick or stepping into a ring with one man who wants to hurt you and another who can't help you. The quality that makes an object or performance art is not the quality of the object but the quality of the creator. If that were not so than any homophobic jerk who can ice a cake would be calling him- or herself an artist.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

This particular baker considers his commissioned cakes artistic expression. I don't particularly find his cakes aesthetically appealing, and I agree that cakes are a thing to be eaten, but the truth is it takes skill to do some of these cakes. I invite you to check some of the videos about them on YT. I saw a woman make a cake that looked like Caesar salad. It was so detailed, had I not known it was a cake, I would've been fooled into thinking it was salad.

I'm not oblivious to artistic cakes, there's a good documentary on chefs receiving some insignia for their pastries.. and some of the concoctions are spectacular.. but I'm specifically responding to the idea that baking and the Mona Lisa are the same - I'm not diminishing on over the other but saying one is purely artistic expression and the other is mixing some eggs, sugar and flour..

Usually, you'd be right. But in this case, because of what goes into making these cakes (effort, skill) I see artistry involved. It may not be as noteworthy as The Mona Lisa, but they're both artistic expression.

[Bombadil]

Very much so. Chiseling a stone into a brick is not art, chiseling a stone into a statue is.

If painting "A. Mutt" on the side of a urinal and tipping it over is art, then so is chiseling stone into a brick or stepping into a ring with one man who wants to hurt you and another who can't help you. The quality that makes an object or performance art is not the quality of the object but the quality of the creator. If that were not so than any homophobic jerk who can ice a cake would be calling him- or herself an artist.

No the difference is in the intent.. is the basic intent to bake a cake or to create a statement on the human condition or whatever artistic statement someone wants to make.

Quite honestly making a cake with blue bits and red bits and icing 'congratulations on..' whatever.. is not artistic expression.

I'd also like to see if an artist can refuse a commissions specifically on the grounds that the person asking is gay or black or Jewish or Transgender.. I mean people can not want to do things for a variety of reasons but if they express their reasoning is such as the above I'm not sure they'd be in the clear just by claiming they're 'an artiste dahling..'

[US-SSR]

So they did not say that this individual baker broke the law in this case, got it.

In fairness they could hardly say that if their intention was to let him slide for denying a public accommodation to members of a protected class. As I said a few pages ago their decision was that the Colorado commission said mean things about his homophobic beliefs and hurted his snowflake feels.

On the other hand not even the majority of the most activist Court in living memory was willing to carve out some broad First Amendment exception to public accommodation law, as apparently believed by their fellow-thinkers who have not bothered to read their decision. Not yet, anyway.

[The South Falls]

This guy should have served them, but the law seems to be against him making the cake himself. I would think that the cake is a cake, and his homophobia shouldn't stop him from reducing his business. But, fine, that's him. The law is on his side, but I am not.

[Washington Resistance Army]

This guy should have served them, but the law seems to be against him making the cake himself. I would think that the cake is a cake, and his homophobia shouldn't stop him from reducing his business. But, fine, that's him. The law is on his side, but I am not.

He offered to serve them, he just wouldn't make a custom cake that endorsed something he didn't believe in.

[Ors Might]

This guy should have served them, but the law seems to be against him making the cake himself. I would think that the cake is a cake, and his homophobia shouldn't stop him from reducing his business. But, fine, that's him. The law is on his side, but I am not.

That’s a position I can more or less respect. The man’s a dick and I wouldn’t be opposed to boycotting him. I draw the line at the government compelling artistic expression though.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

This guy should have served them, but the law seems to be against him making the cake himself. I would think that the cake is a cake, and his homophobia shouldn't stop him from reducing his business. But, fine, that's him. The law is on his side, but I am not.

Services were not denied. Just not a custom cake that endorsed something that goes contrary to his beliefs.

[Bombadil]

Art.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsN40iv5nzg

[The South Falls]

This guy should have served them, but the law seems to be against him making the cake himself. I would think that the cake is a cake, and his homophobia shouldn't stop him from reducing his business. But, fine, that's him. The law is on his side, but I am not.

That’s a position I can more or less respect. The man’s a dick and I wouldn’t be opposed to boycotting him. I draw the line at the government compelling artistic expression though.

Yea, the government shouldn't force him to make the art. But, he is a dick who I'd have no problem not buying from.

This guy should have served them, but the law seems to be against him making the cake himself. I would think that the cake is a cake, and his homophobia shouldn't stop him from reducing his business. But, fine, that's him. The law is on his side, but I am not.

Services were not denied. Just not a custom cake that endorsed something that goes contrary to his beliefs.

The service of the custom cake was denied.

[Ors Might]

Art.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsN40iv5nzg

Hey man, I’ve seen some pretty shitty pieces in galleries. Compared to them, this guy is Van Gogh

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

That’s a position I can more or less respect. The man’s a dick and I wouldn’t be opposed to boycotting him. I draw the line at the government compelling artistic expression though.

Yea, the government shouldn't force him to make the art. But, he is a dick who I'd have no problem not buying from.

Services were not denied. Just not a custom cake that endorsed something that goes contrary to his beliefs.

The service of the custom cake was denied.

Again, the customer was not denied a cake. What was denied was for the shop owner to custom make a cake that endorsed something that goes against his beliefs.

[Ors Might]

That’s a position I can more or less respect. The man’s a dick and I wouldn’t be opposed to boycotting him. I draw the line at the government compelling artistic expression though.

Yea, the government shouldn't force him to make the art. But, he is a dick who I'd have no problem not buying from.

Services were not denied. Just not a custom cake that endorsed something that goes contrary to his beliefs.

The service of the custom cake was denied.

Depending how good the cake is, I’d maybe buy a chocolate on chocolate cake or maybe one of those big cookie pizza cakes if he sells them before joining the boycott. I’m a shameless glutton.

[US-SSR]

This guy should have served them, but the law seems to be against him making the cake himself. I would think that the cake is a cake, and his homophobia shouldn't stop him from reducing his business. But, fine, that's him. The law is on his side, but I am not.

Services were not denied. Just not a custom cake that endorsed something that goes contrary to his beliefs.

Say I run a lunch counter. You come in to my lunch counter and order lunch. I say, "sorry, it's against my sincerely held religious beliefs to serve lunch to you, but I will sell you a teddy bear. See, I'm not denying services, just a custom lunch that endorses something that goes contrary to my beliefs." btw I consider my lunches works of art, which is valid because food. I'm good with the law then, right?

Frankly I tire of arguing absurdities tonight.