Masterpiece Cakeshop back to court.

[Farnhamia]

They should have won last time but they should definitely win here.

Sure, what the heck, someone could publish something like the Negro Motorist Green Book, only listing places where gay people or Muslims or what-have-you can do business without being discriminated against. Excellent idea. Forward to the past!

The discrimination in the era that book was published was so extensive that it had a significant impact on the US economy, which is the justification for the Civil Rights Act. I am not persuaded those concerns are still valid.

Right, that awful discrimination problem with the black folks is over, the economy is doing great, we can drop all the anti-discrimination laws because no one would dare try it again. I mean, really, who wants sit-ins and ... stuff that that all over again? Please.

[The Republic of Fore]

Yes let's sue anyone who refuses to kiss the rear end of whatever minority group It's cool to champion this week. Because as we all know, having to spend their money somewhere else would cause them great trauma. Forward to a society where hurting someone's feelings is a crime!

Yeah, like taking down Confederate statues.. really hurt the feelings of those snowflake racists.

Because wanting to preserve part of our nations history = Throwing a tantrum like a two year old because you have to spend money somewhere else. For what It's worth though, the statues should be in museums.

[Bombadil]

Yeah, like taking down Confederate statues.. really hurt the feelings of those snowflake racists.

Because wanting to preserve part of our nations history = Throwing a tantrum like a two year old because you have to spend money somewhere else. For what It's worth though, the statues should be in museums.

What you and everyone else who runs this line of argument fails to understand is that this is not a case of a single person wanting a cake from a specific shop, it's about the right of people to not be segregated into different places in which they can be served because of their colour, race, gender or sexuality.

In order to get a ruling on that right a specific case is required for the courts.. so this whole 'just go to a different shop' argument is missing the entire point.

[The Republic of Fore]

They should have won last time but they should definitely win here.



The discrimination in the era that book was published was so extensive that it had a significant impact on the US economy, which is the justification for the Civil Rights Act. I am not persuaded those concerns are still valid.

Right, that awful discrimination problem with the black folks is over, the economy is doing great, we can drop all the anti-discrimination laws because no one would dare try it again. I mean, really, who wants sit-ins and ... stuff that that all over again? Please.

Oh please, nobody is saying that. Why must you immediately jump to ridiculous extremes? It's not the 1960's. There's plenty of other bakeries that would be happy to take the job. He or she can whine and scream until their hearts content. It won't change anything.

[Farnhamia]

Yeah, like taking down Confederate statues.. really hurt the feelings of those snowflake racists.

Because wanting to preserve part of our nations history = Throwing a tantrum like a two year old because you have to spend money somewhere else. For what It's worth though, the statues should be in museums.

So you're okay with some people being second-class citizens who have to consider where they shop to avoid the trouble of being refused because the merchant's religion or sensibilities are offended by them? That is what you're talking about. People who are straight can shop anywhere but if you aren't, well, better look around for someone who'll serve "your kind." Not my idea of America.

[US-SSR]

This guy needs to get out of the bakery business. It's 2018, there are public accommodation laws and you can't just open a bakery and make cakes for people of whom you approve. Go ahead, argue you don't like them, but as long as they are on the books this snowflake homophobe is determined to break them. And it's not a First Amendment thing either, no one is forcing him to operate a public accommodation, if he wants to sell cakes out of his house to his homophobic friends he can do that.

[Kowani]

They should have won last time but they should definitely win here.



The discrimination in the era that book was published was so extensive that it had a significant impact on the US economy, which is the justification for the Civil Rights Act. I am not persuaded those concerns are still valid.

Right, that awful discrimination problem with the black folks is over, the economy is doing great, we can drop all the anti-discrimination laws because no one would dare try it again. I mean, really, who wants sit-ins and ... stuff that that all over again? Please.

The thing is, the baker’s not saying that he won’t serve them because of their transgenderism, but rather that he won’t perform certain services because they are both compelled speech, and clash with beliefs. Even with all the discrimination laws, you cannot make someone go “I love black people”, and claim discrimination if they don’t say it. And that, is a crucial difference. If he had said, “Get the fuck out of my store, pervert”, or something along those lines, merely upon the customer announcing that she was transgender, you would be right. But that’s not what happened. He was just fine making the cake, at least until he knew what the message was supposed to be.

[Des-Bal]

Right, that awful discrimination problem with the black folks is over, the economy is doing great, we can drop all the anti-discrimination laws because no one would dare try it again. I mean, really, who wants sit-ins and ... stuff that that all over again? Please.

See there's the problem, the justification for the civil rights act is not that some people could discriminate it's that the collective impact of extensive discrimination is so severe that the damage it does to the national economy meets the threshold to trigger the federal governments commerce clause powers.

[The South Falls]

Right, that awful discrimination problem with the black folks is over, the economy is doing great, we can drop all the anti-discrimination laws because no one would dare try it again. I mean, really, who wants sit-ins and ... stuff that that all over again? Please.

The thing is, the baker’s not saying that he won’t serve them because of their transgenderism, but rather that he won’t perform certain services because they are both compelled speech, and clash with beliefs. Even with all the discrimination laws, you cannot make someone go “I love black people”, and claim discrimination if they don’t say it. And that, is a crucial difference. If he had said, “Get the fuck out of my store, pervert”, or something along those lines, merely upon the customer announcing that she was transgender, you would be right. But that’s not what happened. He was just fine making the cake, at least until he knew what the message was supposed to be.

He is making it in icing. If I make something for someone else, as part of a business, I do not say I espouse those beliefs.

[Telconi]

Because wanting to preserve part of our nations history = Throwing a tantrum like a two year old because you have to spend money somewhere else. For what It's worth though, the statues should be in museums.

So you're okay with some people being second-class citizens who have to consider where they shop to avoid the trouble of being refused because the merchant's religion or sensibilities are offended by them? That is what you're talking about. People who are straight can shop anywhere but if you aren't, well, better look around for someone who'll serve "your kind." Not my idea of America.

>Second class citizens

Oh, look, something nobody said...

[Farnhamia]

So you're okay with some people being second-class citizens who have to consider where they shop to avoid the trouble of being refused because the merchant's religion or sensibilities are offended by them? That is what you're talking about. People who are straight can shop anywhere but if you aren't, well, better look around for someone who'll serve "your kind." Not my idea of America.

>Second class citizens

Oh, look, something nobody said...

Did I say he said that? No, I didn't. That is the result of his line of thinking, though.

[The Two Jerseys]

This guy needs to get out of the bakery business. It's 2018, there are public accommodation laws and you can't just open a bakery and make cakes for people of whom you approve. Go ahead, argue you don't like them, but as long as they are on the books this snowflake homophobe is determined to break them. And it's not a First Amendment thing either, no one is forcing him to operate a public accommodation, if he wants to sell cakes out of his house to his homophobic friends he can do that.

Making custom goods on commission is not a public accommodation.

He's willing to sell any off-the-shelf item to anyone who comes in and wants to buy it, therefore he is in compliance with public accommodation laws.

[Petrasylvania]

Yeah, like taking down Confederate statues.. really hurt the feelings of those snowflake racists.

Because wanting to preserve part of our nations history = Throwing a tantrum like a two year old because you have to spend money somewhere else. For what It's worth though, the statues should be in museums.

Oh right, a monument telling blacks they need to know their places is preserving the nation's history.

[Ors Might]

>Second class citizens

Oh, look, something nobody said...

Did I say he said that? No, I didn't. That is the result of his line of thinking, though.

Christians not baking “coming out as trans” celebration cakes for anyone, no matter their identity, will create second class citizens?

[Fartsniffage]

Because wanting to preserve part of our nations history = Throwing a tantrum like a two year old because you have to spend money somewhere else. For what It's worth though, the statues should be in museums.

Oh right, a monument telling blacks they need to know their places is preserving the nation's history.

It really is. Or do you think that bit of American history should be swept under the carpet?

[Len Hyet]

This guy needs to get out of the bakery business. It's 2018, there are public accommodation laws and you can't just open a bakery and make cakes for people of whom you approve. Go ahead, argue you don't like them, but as long as they are on the books this snowflake homophobe is determined to break them. And it's not a First Amendment thing either, no one is forcing him to operate a public accommodation, if he wants to sell cakes out of his house to his homophobic friends he can do that.

Not only are you wrong, you are laughably, incredibly, and completely wrong.

You are in fact, so wrong, that if you were any more wrong you would have to be literally saying that the 1st Amendment makes no mention of religion or speech at all.

[Petrasylvania]

Oh right, a monument telling blacks they need to know their places is preserving the nation's history.

It really is. Or do you think that bit of American history should be swept under the carpet?

No. It shouldn't be out in the open for lionization either.

[Telconi]

>Second class citizens

Oh, look, something nobody said...

Did I say he said that? No, I didn't. That is the result of his line of thinking, though.

No, it isn't...

[The South Falls]

Put the statues in a museum, not out in public.

[Fartsniffage]

It really is. Or do you think that bit of American history should be swept under the carpet?

No. It shouldn't be out in the open for lionization either.

You say lionization, I say not forgetting.

The USA can't do with slavery what Germany did with the Nazis. They did it quickly and once and for all, the US kept up with being assholes for a century after slavery got banned. When you tear down statues of Civil War figures you're not just damaging knowledge of the Civil War, your denying your recent history as well.

Keep that shit up, put information plaques up next to it. Educate people rather than just trying to hide history.

[US-SSR]

This guy needs to get out of the bakery business. It's 2018, there are public accommodation laws and you can't just open a bakery and make cakes for people of whom you approve. Go ahead, argue you don't like them, but as long as they are on the books this snowflake homophobe is determined to break them. And it's not a First Amendment thing either, no one is forcing him to operate a public accommodation, if he wants to sell cakes out of his house to his homophobic friends he can do that.

Making custom goods on commission is not a public accommodation.

He's willing to sell any off-the-shelf item to anyone who comes in and wants to buy it, therefore he is in compliance with public accommodation laws.

It is if you sell them out of a bakery. Review the last Supreme Court decision, even the majority agreed he had violated public accommodation law.

[US-SSR]

This guy needs to get out of the bakery business. It's 2018, there are public accommodation laws and you can't just open a bakery and make cakes for people of whom you approve. Go ahead, argue you don't like them, but as long as they are on the books this snowflake homophobe is determined to break them. And it's not a First Amendment thing either, no one is forcing him to operate a public accommodation, if he wants to sell cakes out of his house to his homophobic friends he can do that.

Not only are you wrong, you are laughably, incredibly, and completely wrong.

You are in fact, so wrong, that if you were any more wrong you would have to be literally saying that the 1st Amendment makes no mention of religion or speech at all.

Got an argument to go with that or are you too sophisticated for any of that? Who exactly is prohibiting him from freely exercising his religion, or is he one of those bakery cultists?

[Des-Bal]

You say lionization, I say not forgetting.

The USA can't do with slavery what Germany did with the Nazis. They did it quickly and once and for all, the US kept up with being assholes for a century after slavery got banned. When you tear down statues of Civil War figures you're not just damaging knowledge of the Civil War, your denying your recent history as well.

Keep that shit up, put information plaques up next to it. Educate people rather than just trying to hide history.

Whose saying forget? The idea is "hey you know how we put up a statute and said it represented our enduring commitment that whites and blacks should never be equal? Maybe take it down?" Declining to hoard shitty statues and monuments isn't the same thing as stopping people from talking about slavery.

[Len Hyet]

Making custom goods on commission is not a public accommodation.

He's willing to sell any off-the-shelf item to anyone who comes in and wants to buy it, therefore he is in compliance with public accommodation laws.

It is if you sell them out of a bakery. Review the last Supreme Court decision, even the majority agreed he had violated public accommodation law.

Mm, no. The Majority held that Phelps did not violate the Public Accommodation law, because he was willing to sell them a cake. He was not however, willing to create a cake that would celebrate gay marriage, which would have been compelled speech.

[Ors Might]

Making custom goods on commission is not a public accommodation.

He's willing to sell any off-the-shelf item to anyone who comes in and wants to buy it, therefore he is in compliance with public accommodation laws.

It is if you sell them out of a bakery. Review the last Supreme Court decision, even the majority agreed he had violated public accommodation law.

You don’t see the problem with the state forcing artists to accept commissions?