“Nerds” vs “Jocks” – Reversal of Roles?

[The Holy Therns]

I've met some damn nerdy jocks, how do they fit in to all of this?

They're being reversed into jocky nerds.

Those dastardly nerds and their stereotype-inverting superscience.

[Thermodolia]

I think the article missed a couple of jocks, like Vick, Rice, Peterson, etc. You do bring up an interesting point Sharania:

Cited examples of “good jocks” are black. Cited examples of the “bad jocks” (Josh Hader of the Milwaukee Brewers and Sean Newcomb of the Atlanta Braves) are white. The article fails to emphasize that.

As someone who knows quite a bit about sports, there are plenty of good white jocks and bad nonwhite jocks. It is interesting that the New York Times chose whites as bad jocks and blacks as good jocks. And you're right, they didn't emphasize that. If they're so into identity politics, what're they afraid of? The Truth? Iraqi WMDs?

Good white jocks: the Sedins, Lundquist, Parros...

(Yep, I have a bias, I think NHL players > NFL players. Also, Subban rocks!)

Sean Newcomb did even do anything bad, outside of a few offensive tweets. Which is really tame compared to Rice. NYT has their ass stuck in their head again

[Ifreann]

They're being reversed into jocky nerds.

Those dastardly nerds and their stereotype-inverting superscience.

Reversing polarities all over the place, the mad feckers.

[Ostroeuropa]

Said video games are one of the few retreats that men have and women inserting themselves into it is pissing off a lot of men, because they're finding it difficult to have environments and time for themselves. All the while women are demanding women-only spaces to escape men.

Yeah pretty much tbh. Hows that suicide rate looking again?

Most of your post pretty much covers it.

Tell you what. Let's all dump a bunch of social obligations on women that they have to suddenly do all the cooking and clothes making again, and if they fuck it up, it's because they're deliberately callous and trying to poison us and/or are deliberately trying to control our sexuality and censor it by making us look unfashionable.

us?

No,we won't bother doing more of the work, just criticize. But if we did do it, we'd obviously be superior, natch, because unlike women we're not completely toxic people who love poisoning others and get off on it. After all, How often does a man poisoned a woman with his cooking (Which is something we mostly refuse to do and they are socially obligated to do instead)? exactly. (This is the level of thinking which is now mainstream for these issues. This is how feminists encourage women to see the world. Beyond that, this is apparently convincing to many of them.)

Fact is a lot of this "Harassment" and women complaining about what they think is sexism boils down to socially awkward men still having to do courting while socially awkward women don't. Womens ineptitude therefore is not on display. But that doesn't let them blame men for it and engage in another round of gynocentric solipsism and might result in them, gasp, having to change their mindsets themselves to achieve parity, and that simply won't do.

Far more sensible and achievable to simply demand an end to social awkwardness from men and engage in a bunch of borderline ableist stuff just to cater to womens prejudices and preconceptions about how the world works and their staggering levels of in-group bias that makes many of them reflexively unwilling to take responsibility for things if they can blame a man or men in general instead, even when it makes no sense the moment you stop viewing it in a gynocentric manner.

[Uxupox]

I think the article missed a couple of jocks, like Vick, Rice, Peterson, etc. You do bring up an interesting point Sharania:

Cited examples of “good jocks” are black. Cited examples of the “bad jocks” (Josh Hader of the Milwaukee Brewers and Sean Newcomb of the Atlanta Braves) are white. The article fails to emphasize that.

As someone who knows quite a bit about sports, there are plenty of good white jocks and bad nonwhite jocks. It is interesting that the New York Times chose whites as bad jocks and blacks as good jocks. And you're right, they didn't emphasize that. If they're so into identity politics, what're they afraid of? The Truth? Iraqi WMDs?

Good white jocks: the Sedins, Lundquist, Parros...

(Yep, I have a bias, I think NHL players > NFL players. Also, Subban rocks!)

absolutely heinous.

[Ifreann]

Said video games are one of the few retreats that men have and women inserting themselves into it is pissing off a lot of men, because they're finding it difficult to have environments and time for themselves. All the while women are demanding women-only spaces to escape men.

Yeah pretty much tbh. Hows that suicide rate looking again?

Maybe one of you can tell me when it was ever the case that women didn't play video games.

[Ostroeuropa]

Yeah pretty much tbh. Hows that suicide rate looking again?

Maybe one of you can tell me when it was ever the case that women didn't play video games.

They always have but the culture has been primarily male dominated and the space has been catered to men and their comfort. I even accept that criticism of it. The problem is twofold;

1. feminists aren't the people to fix that and will inevitably fuck it up and turn it to female supremacy like they do with almost everything
2. There's almost no explicit male spaces and they get shut down when they try to make them. Changing gaming as a consequence is going to leave men with even less areas that are sensitive to their needs and wellbeing and so on. It's also the case that substantial swathes of society are geared toward women, and changing another part of it to be the same isn't a step toward equality, but merely exacerbating already existing problems.

[Torisakia]

Damn. I thought calling myself a nerd would keep me from ridicule from society. I do tend to harass and flame people whether they're women or not (I don't know because I never see their face) and not really an incel but just destined to be alone forever because of my own doing. I agree with most everyone else that this is just bullshit generalizations.

[Sovaal]

Jocks Rule, Nerds Drool

I used to love nerds. Or at least, I loved the idea of nerds. In the ’80s, ’90s and 2000s, there was an endless stream of movies and media, from “Revenge of the Nerds” to “Spider-Man” to “Beauty and the Geek,” dedicated to telling women that they’d be better off with nerds than with the arrogant jocks who would grunt cavemanlike in response to anything women said, before kicking sand in a nerd’s face.

Nerds were smart and decent underdogs who just needed a good-hearted lady to notice them and maybe get them a pair of contact lenses.

Boy, that stereotype does not hold up in 2018.

On the one hand we have “nerds” that:
- Harass female colleagues in tech companies
- Harass women during Gamergate
- Hang out on incel boards “talking about how Elliot Rodger was right to kill “blonde sorority sluts.””
- Elon Musk, “King of the Nerds”, “tweeted that a diver who assisted in rescuing 12 boys trapped in a cave in Thailand was a pedophile.”
- Chloe Dykstra, the ex-girlfriend of the Nerdist founder Chris Hardwick (whom Rolling Stone has called “King of the Nerds”), wrote in an essay that her boyfriend of three years had emotionally and sexually abused her.

Nerds are the overdogs now. If they got into tech early, they’re obscenely wealthy, and all of America now likes the stuff they enjoyed as kids. But they’re not wielding that power in a way that is especially kind or thoughtful.

On the other hand:
- On July 30, the N.B.A. star LeBron James opened a school in Akron, Ohio, that promises free lunches, bicycles and tuition to all its students, as well as guaranteed tuition at the University of Akron for all of its graduates. Many on Twitter pointed out that this might be a more generous use of wealth than attempting to fund space travel, as Mr. Musk hopes to do.
- Last week, another N.B.A. player, Stephen Curry, raised over $21,000 through a live-streamed event to help benefit the family of Nia Wilson, a young woman who was stabbed to death at a train station in Oakland, Calif.
- In June, the former N.F.L. player-turned-actor Terry Crews gave Senate testimony in which he spoke about having been sexually assaulted and warned against the “cult of toxic masculinity” that led him to believe he was more important than women.
- And of course there’s Colin Kaepernick, the former 49ers quarterback, who drew national attention to police brutality by kneeling during the national anthem.

In response to the peaceful protests Mr. Kaepernick inspired, President Trump suggested N.F.L. owners should “get that son of a bitch off the field right now.” In a fit of truly bizarre pettiness last September, the president uninvited Mr. Curry to the White House after Mr. Curry said he did not plan to go. On Aug. 3, after Mr. James criticized Mr. Trump during an interview about the new school, Mr. Trump tweeted, “Lebron James was just interviewed by the dumbest man on television, Don Lemon. He made Lebron look smart, which isn’t easy to do.” Mr. Curry quickly responded that the tweet was “based in some longstanding racism.”

The article fails to mention several important things:
- “Nerds” are deplorably often found among the Alt-Right and most toxic, hateful, racist boards like Reddit.
- Cited examples of “good jocks” are black. Cited examples of the “bad jocks” (Josh Hader of the Milwaukee Brewers and Sean Newcomb of the Atlanta Braves) are white. The article fails to emphasize that.

I think the article is right in delivering one simple clear message – “nerds” should not get a free pass anymore. Abused became abusers. They failed, by and large, to live up to be responsible with the newfound power of our modern age. It’s time for them to admit that and change accordingly. Meanwhile the society must learn to appreciate the heroes that already contribute greatly to it.

Do you agree? What is your opinion? Where do you stand in this debate?

This entire post is idiotic. People can be nice or terrible regareldess of their race, sex, or "jockieness" or "nerdieness". To placd the blame on entierely one gorup or race is fucking idiotic and I hope whoever subscribes to such an idea takes a nice long hard look at themelseves.

[Wabexer]

Doesn't matter anymore. The anonymity of the Interet allows even those with "almost no money" and who, seemingly, "wield no social power" to harass people they don't like very effectively. In fact - you just described Alt-Right footsoldiers of the Net.

Anyone can do that, though. Harassing people on the internet is not a trait exclusive to nerds, nor are internet hate mobs in general.

Controversies and scandals - this year alone - show that the article, actually, underreports them.

I'm sorry, "underreports"? This thread was started off of you quoting an opinion piece if I'm not mistaken, it had no statistics. And trying to prove some sort of point specifically from the number of scandals the media has covered really doesn't help your case. I can do the exact same thing. And I don't see how "nerds are ahead" because of some trolling online.

[Shofercia]

As someone who knows quite a bit about sports, there are plenty of good white jocks and bad nonwhite jocks. It is interesting that the New York Times chose whites as bad jocks and blacks as good jocks. And you're right, they didn't emphasize that. If they're so into identity politics, what're they afraid of? The Truth? Iraqi WMDs?

Probably the idea that generosity and charity aren't qualities that are defined by melanin levels. After all, there's a dominating narrative within the millennial left that all white people are evil.

Including themselves... And then they wonder why they cannot find jobs, since most employers are white males. If you want a job, it's best not to refer to a hiring manager as Dr. Evil, no matter how shaggalific you think you are.

I think the article missed a couple of jocks, like Vick, Rice, Peterson, etc. You do bring up an interesting point Sharania:



As someone who knows quite a bit about sports, there are plenty of good white jocks and bad nonwhite jocks. It is interesting that the New York Times chose whites as bad jocks and blacks as good jocks. And you're right, they didn't emphasize that. If they're so into identity politics, what're they afraid of? The Truth? Iraqi WMDs?

Good white jocks: the Sedins, Lundquist, Parros...

(Yep, I have a bias, I think NHL players > NFL players. Also, Subban rocks!)

Sean Newcomb did even do anything bad, outside of a few offensive tweets. Which is really tame compared to Rice. NYT has their ass stuck in their head again

Seems to be a tradition for 'em since 2003, but now the people are finally catching on.

[Ifreann]

Maybe one of you can tell me when it was ever the case that women didn't play video games.

They always have but the culture has been primarily male dominated and the space has been catered to men and their comfort. I even accept that criticism of it. The problem is twofold;

1. feminists aren't the people to fix that and will inevitably fuck it up and turn it to female supremacy like they do with almost everything
2. There's almost no explicit male spaces and they get shut down when they try to make them. Changing gaming as a consequence is going to leave men with even less areas that are sensitive to their needs and wellbeing and so on. It's also the case that substantial swathes of society are geared toward women, and changing another part of it to be the same isn't a step toward equality, but merely exacerbating already existing problems.

So you accept that video gaming has never really belonged to men, but women no longer being ignored is a somehow them invading and stealing men's space.

Maybe the problem here is wanting a whole category of media to belong to men.

[Internationalist Bastard]

You’re such a polynygmion

[The Serbian Empire]

You also see the likes of Slava Voynov, Ray Rice, Aroldis Chapman, Roberto Osuna, and Greg Hardy with a history of domestic violence. The truth is, there's good guys and bad guys in every group whether nerds or jocks. You mostly hear about the bad eggs in their midst ignoring the LeBron James, Brandon Inge, or P.K. Subban types of the world doing acts of good since pro athlete visiting the sick kids at the hospital every week or building schools usually only gets local or regional coverage.

[Petrasylvania]

They always have but the culture has been primarily male dominated and the space has been catered to men and their comfort. I even accept that criticism of it. The problem is twofold;

1. feminists aren't the people to fix that and will inevitably fuck it up and turn it to female supremacy like they do with almost everything
2. There's almost no explicit male spaces and they get shut down when they try to make them. Changing gaming as a consequence is going to leave men with even less areas that are sensitive to their needs and wellbeing and so on. It's also the case that substantial swathes of society are geared toward women, and changing another part of it to be the same isn't a step toward equality, but merely exacerbating already existing problems.

So you accept that video gaming has never really belonged to men, but women no longer being ignored is a somehow them invading and stealing men's space.

Maybe the problem here is wanting a whole category of media to belong to men.

There's porn.

[Anollasia]

Like any group of people, there's bound to be its good and bad. Good nerds, bad nerds, good jocks, bad jocks. Not to mention that most people don't fit in either group, or maybe they fit in both.

[Shofercia]

You also see the likes of Slava Voynov, Ray Rice, Aroldis Chapman, Roberto Osuna, and Greg Hardy with a history of domestic violence. The truth is, there's good guys and bad guys in every group whether nerds or jocks. You mostly hear about the bad eggs in their midst ignoring the LeBron James, Brandon Inge, or P.K. Subban types of the world doing acts of good since pro athlete visiting the sick kids at the hospital every week or building schools usually only gets local or regional coverage.

You do know that with Voynov it was a single incident, for which he apologized profusely, and that his victim accepted his apology and remained his wife, right? Even though she didn't have to, as he offered millions in compensation. What Voynov did was terrible, and there's no excuse for that kind of behavior, but if someone is truly remorseful, and changes, and remains changed for years, shouldn't that be taken into consideration?

Again, not an excuse for what he did, and he deserved to spend some time in jail. Also, I don't blame Bettman for what he did to Voynov. I do blame Bettman for fucking up the Kings' salary cap situation the following week.

[Sovaal]

So you accept that video gaming has never really belonged to men, but women no longer being ignored is a somehow them invading and stealing men's space.

Maybe the problem here is wanting a whole category of media to belong to men.

There's porn.

I'd imagine that not every single consumer of porn is male either.

[Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft]

So you accept that video gaming has never really belonged to men, but women no longer being ignored is a somehow them invading and stealing men's space.

Maybe the problem here is wanting a whole category of media to belong to men.

There's porn.

Not all people who watch porn, by any means, are men

[Ostroeuropa]

They always have but the culture has been primarily male dominated and the space has been catered to men and their comfort. I even accept that criticism of it. The problem is twofold;

1. feminists aren't the people to fix that and will inevitably fuck it up and turn it to female supremacy like they do with almost everything
2. There's almost no explicit male spaces and they get shut down when they try to make them. Changing gaming as a consequence is going to leave men with even less areas that are sensitive to their needs and wellbeing and so on. It's also the case that substantial swathes of society are geared toward women, and changing another part of it to be the same isn't a step toward equality, but merely exacerbating already existing problems.

So you accept that video gaming has never really belonged to men, but women no longer being ignored is a somehow them invading and stealing men's space.

Maybe the problem here is wanting a whole category of media to belong to men.

I laid out my concerns very specifically and you've decided to ignore them in favor of a misrepresentation of the concerns, Is there a particular reason for that?

[Shofercia]

There's porn.

Not all people who watch porn, by any means, are men

There's also robot porn, which is rated PG-13: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fvh32fQ8nNI

[The Serbian Empire]

You also see the likes of Slava Voynov, Ray Rice, Aroldis Chapman, Roberto Osuna, and Greg Hardy with a history of domestic violence. The truth is, there's good guys and bad guys in every group whether nerds or jocks. You mostly hear about the bad eggs in their midst ignoring the LeBron James, Brandon Inge, or P.K. Subban types of the world doing acts of good since pro athlete visiting the sick kids at the hospital every week or building schools usually only gets local or regional coverage.

You do know that with Voynov it was a single incident, for which he apologized profusely, and that his victim accepted his apology and remained his wife, right? Even though she didn't have to, as he offered millions in compensation. What Voynov did was terrible, and there's no excuse for that kind of behavior, but if someone is truly remorseful, and changes, and remains changed for years, shouldn't that be taken into consideration?

Again, not an excuse for what he did, and he deserved to spend some time in jail. Also, I don't blame Bettman for what he did to Voynov. I do blame Bettman for fucking up the Kings' salary cap situation the following week.

And Chapman's incident involved no physical harm, but rather discharging a weapon in the garage after a domestic argument. Not exactly a good thing psychologically to do to your SO, though. The Osuna and Voynov suspensions were probably the best in terms of punishment though.

[Petrasylvania]

There's porn.

I'd imagine that not every single consumer of porn is male either.

There's porn.

Not all people who watch porn, by any means, are men

Porn as media however is primarily dominated by and caters to men. No icky poo feminazis trying to ruin the industry, just women doing what they're told.

[Costa Fierro]

Maybe one of you can tell me when it was ever the case that women didn't play video games.

Neither of us have made that claim, so whatever attempted gotcha you're trying to make here, it hasn't worked.

So you accept that video gaming has never really belonged to men, but women no longer being ignored is a somehow them invading and stealing men's space.

Video game markets in many Western countries and video game fandoms are largely dominated by men, as men compose the largest share of the market. Therefore it makes sense for video game developers and companies to cater to the largest market demographic. The problem is, feminists and other associated social justice types have complained about this and want to cater it to their tastes and to those of women, meaning we end up with abominations and market backlash against games which the majority of buyers would rather not have.

Porn as media however is primarily dominated by and caters to men. No icky poo feminazis trying to ruin the industry, just women doing what they're told.

Feminists have been trying to get pornography banned for decades.

[The Two Jerseys]

Biased op-ed pieces using cherrypicked talking points are bad and the NYT should feel bad.