“Nerds” vs “Jocks” – Reversal of Roles?

[Sharania]

Jocks Rule, Nerds Drool

I used to love nerds. Or at least, I loved the idea of nerds. In the ’80s, ’90s and 2000s, there was an endless stream of movies and media, from “Revenge of the Nerds” to “Spider-Man” to “Beauty and the Geek,” dedicated to telling women that they’d be better off with nerds than with the arrogant jocks who would grunt cavemanlike in response to anything women said, before kicking sand in a nerd’s face.

Nerds were smart and decent underdogs who just needed a good-hearted lady to notice them and maybe get them a pair of contact lenses.

Boy, that stereotype does not hold up in 2018.

On the one hand we have “nerds” that:
- Harass female colleagues in tech companies
- Harass women during Gamergate
- Hang out on incel boards “talking about how Elliot Rodger was right to kill “blonde sorority sluts.””
- Elon Musk, “King of the Nerds”, “tweeted that a diver who assisted in rescuing 12 boys trapped in a cave in Thailand was a pedophile.”
- Chloe Dykstra, the ex-girlfriend of the Nerdist founder Chris Hardwick (whom Rolling Stone has called “King of the Nerds”), wrote in an essay that her boyfriend of three years had emotionally and sexually abused her.

Nerds are the overdogs now. If they got into tech early, they’re obscenely wealthy, and all of America now likes the stuff they enjoyed as kids. But they’re not wielding that power in a way that is especially kind or thoughtful.

On the other hand:
- On July 30, the N.B.A. star LeBron James opened a school in Akron, Ohio, that promises free lunches, bicycles and tuition to all its students, as well as guaranteed tuition at the University of Akron for all of its graduates. Many on Twitter pointed out that this might be a more generous use of wealth than attempting to fund space travel, as Mr. Musk hopes to do.
- Last week, another N.B.A. player, Stephen Curry, raised over $21,000 through a live-streamed event to help benefit the family of Nia Wilson, a young woman who was stabbed to death at a train station in Oakland, Calif.
- In June, the former N.F.L. player-turned-actor Terry Crews gave Senate testimony in which he spoke about having been sexually assaulted and warned against the “cult of toxic masculinity” that led him to believe he was more important than women.
- And of course there’s Colin Kaepernick, the former 49ers quarterback, who drew national attention to police brutality by kneeling during the national anthem.

In response to the peaceful protests Mr. Kaepernick inspired, President Trump suggested N.F.L. owners should “get that son of a bitch off the field right now.” In a fit of truly bizarre pettiness last September, the president uninvited Mr. Curry to the White House after Mr. Curry said he did not plan to go. On Aug. 3, after Mr. James criticized Mr. Trump during an interview about the new school, Mr. Trump tweeted, “Lebron James was just interviewed by the dumbest man on television, Don Lemon. He made Lebron look smart, which isn’t easy to do.” Mr. Curry quickly responded that the tweet was “based in some longstanding racism.”

The article fails to mention several important things:
- “Nerds” are deplorably often found among the Alt-Right and most toxic, hateful, racist boards like Reddit.
- Cited examples of “good jocks” are black. Cited examples of the “bad jocks” (Josh Hader of the Milwaukee Brewers and Sean Newcomb of the Atlanta Braves) are white. The article fails to emphasize that.

I think the article is right in delivering one simple clear message – “nerds” should not get a free pass anymore. Abused became abusers. They failed, by and large, to live up to be responsible with the newfound power of our modern age. It’s time for them to admit that and change accordingly. Meanwhile the society must learn to appreciate the heroes that already contribute greatly to it.

Do you agree? What is your opinion? Where do you stand in this debate?

[Conserative Morality]

>> when alt-right types are more likely to mourn not being 'Chads' themselves than embrace nerdom
>> 'b-but nerds are rich now'

tbqh this is more of the same that we saw in the 90s and 2000s, only this line of thinking is less popular now that being a 'nerd' is more widespread and less socially ostracizing. But whatever you need to do to allay your fears of the Dreaded Other, especially if they're riding the tide of the future and you aren't.

[Webus]

I would agree with pretty much all of that, aside from that i don't like the assertion that space research is a waste (despite the major problems with privatisation of space). It would seem that people's attitudes on sports/video games are certainly not indicative of being a good person.

[Sharania]

>> when alt-right types are more likely to mourn not being 'Chads' themselves than embrace nerdom

That's why they allay their "fears of the Dreaded Other" by cyber-bullying, harassment, mysoginy and racism?

[Dark Socialism]

The gamers have risen up long ago

[Longweather]

Looks like it's easy to try to make a point for a role reversal between "nerds" and "jocks" when you cherry pick data. Seems disingenuous to exclude things like the billions the Bill Gates gives through his foundation or the many instances of spousal abuse by athletes.

[Cetacea]

it really just emphasises that the dominating patriarchal systems are sophisticated enough to adapt different modes of toxic masculinity be it the old emphasis on athleticism or the modern importance of intellectualism. Either way doiminant structurea are going to be put in place that enbsure that women and ehtnic minorities are disempowered within mainstream structures.

The corraly is that those who have been disempowered will be more likely to use the resources they gain to benefit other disenfranchised communities to which they feel affinity - hence Lebrons school donation

[Crockerland]

- Harass women during Gamergate

Lol, what a joke.

[Wabexer]

On the one hand we have “nerds” that:
- Harass female colleagues in tech companies
- Harass women during Gamergate
- Hang out on incel boards “talking about how Elliot Rodger was right to kill “blonde sorority sluts.””
- Elon Musk, “King of the Nerds”, “tweeted that a diver who assisted in rescuing 12 boys trapped in a cave in Thailand was a pedophile.”
- Chloe Dykstra, the ex-girlfriend of the Nerdist founder Chris Hardwick (whom Rolling Stone has called “King of the Nerds”), wrote in an essay that her boyfriend of three years had emotionally and sexually abused her.

Nerds are the overdogs now. If they got into tech early, they’re obscenely wealthy, and all of America now likes the stuff they enjoyed as kids. But they’re not wielding that power in a way that is especially kind or thoughtful.

I don't think "nerd" is as solid a social demographic as this quote would suggest, but whatever, I'll humor it. In the eyes of most people, I would appear much closer to a "nerd" than to a "jock". I have almost no money and I wield no social power. I don't care about any supposed systems, either, I haven't benefited from it.

I think the article is right in delivering one simple clear message – “nerds” should not get a free pass anymore. Abused became abusers. They failed, by and large, to live up to be responsible with the newfound power of our modern age. It’s time for them to admit that and change accordingly. Meanwhile the society must learn to appreciate the heroes that already contribute greatly to it.

Do you agree? What is your opinion? Where do you stand in this debate?

I agree, nobody should be getting free passes. I think the abused becoming abusers is inevitable. I don't think "nerds" are as ahead as this article might suggest--there are still very many people who are nerdy, social outcasts who are no better off than they were before, and I don't think "nerds," collectively, have to admit anything. "Underdogs" love to think of themselves as humane, as still being magnanimous to their current overlords once the reins of power change hands, but this is never the case.

[Cedoria]

- Harass women during Gamergate

Lol, what a joke.

Not a very funny one, if you saw some of the hideous stuff that was circulating at the time.

[Neu Leonstein]

Meh, this is just another generalisation. It's not about who is or isn't a nerd. It's about who chooses to be an arsehole to people and who doesn't. There are people of every stripe who struggle with mental health issues to such a degree that they have a hard time appreciating the here and now. A balanced person's life is characterised by interactions with all sorts of people and governed by simple and intuitive codes of ethical behaviour to one another - ultimately some version of the Golden Rule. Instead some people end up spending their limited time on earth not having those interactions and, sensing that there's something missing from what they're doing with themselves, clinging to their perceptions of their (or their ingroup's) superiority when compared to some outgroup. When one is a martyr for one's tribe, then there's less painful time spent thinking about "personal" failings, be their academic, athletic, economic, social or romantic.

That's probably always been the case, though one can ask questions about the degree to which social media and the internet more generally has maybe been detrimental to mental health. What seems to be pretty much beyond argument though is that social media, and the way news and opinion dissemination has been linked up with advertisement revenue and thereby with outrage economics, has given those unbalanced people a way louder voice than they might have had before, a way to link up with one another and through that a way to pretend that their grievances are somehow more general and ideological than they really are.

[Dumb Ideologies]

>nerds used to get a "free pass"

The tiny subsection who got stinking rich, maybe. There was never a free pass. Most media has always been anti-nerd, and even modern "pro-nerd" media tends to be either niche and subcultural or the kind of "pro-nerd" where the entire structure of the jokes is to continually laugh at them.

>"nerds" are less responsible than "jocks"

If you only look at specific bad "nerds", while focusing only on the good "jocks", writing off all those sports people who spend all their money only on themselves, cheat or beat on their partners, or set a bad example to kids with their on-pitch conduct, the jocks seem more responsible. WHO'D HAVE THOUGHT IT?

[Shofercia]

I think the article missed a couple of jocks, like Vick, Rice, Peterson, etc. You do bring up an interesting point Sharania:

Cited examples of “good jocks” are black. Cited examples of the “bad jocks” (Josh Hader of the Milwaukee Brewers and Sean Newcomb of the Atlanta Braves) are white. The article fails to emphasize that.

As someone who knows quite a bit about sports, there are plenty of good white jocks and bad nonwhite jocks. It is interesting that the New York Times chose whites as bad jocks and blacks as good jocks. And you're right, they didn't emphasize that. If they're so into identity politics, what're they afraid of? The Truth? Iraqi WMDs?

Good white jocks: the Sedins, Lundquist, Parros...

(Yep, I have a bias, I think NHL players > NFL players. Also, Subban rocks!)

[Sharania]

Looks like it's easy to try to make a point for a role reversal between "nerds" and "jocks" when you cherry pick data. Seems disingenuous to exclude things like the billions the Bill Gates gives through his foundation or the many instances of spousal abuse by athletes.

Bill Gates is not a good example.

I don't think "nerd" is as solid a social demographic as this quote would suggest, but whatever, I'll humor it. In the eyes of most people, I would appear much closer to a "nerd" than to a "jock". I have almost no money and I wield no social power. I don't care about any supposed systems, either, I haven't benefited from it.

Doesn't matter anymore. The anonymity of the Interet allows even those with "almost no money" and who, seemingly, "wield no social power" to harass people they don't like very effectively. In fact - you just described Alt-Right footsoldiers of the Net.

I don't think "nerds" are as ahead as this article might suggest

Controversies and scandals - this year alone - show that the article, actually, underreports them.

>nerds used to get a "free pass"

The tiny subsection who got stinking rich, maybe. There was never a free pass. Most media has always been anti-nerd, and even modern "pro-nerd" media tends to be either niche and subcultural or the kind of "pro-nerd" where the entire structure of the jokes is to continually laugh at them.

Maybe you should read the article?

As someone who knows quite a bit about sports, there are plenty of good white jocks and bad nonwhite jocks.

Yes, indeed. Megan Rapinoe followed Kaepernick's example. "Good white (male) jocks" is virtually an oxymoron. Something like "a moderate Republican", only even more rare.

It is interesting that the New York Times chose whites as bad jocks and blacks as good jocks. And you're right, they didn't emphasize that. If they're so into identity politics, what're they afraid of? The Truth? Iraqi WMDs?

And how would *you* punish these... "enemies of the people" that write stuff that you don't like?

P.S. As I suspected - most are unapologetic.

[Dumb Ideologies]

>nerds used to get a "free pass"

The tiny subsection who got stinking rich, maybe. There was never a free pass. Most media has always been anti-nerd, and even modern "pro-nerd" media tends to be either niche and subcultural or the kind of "pro-nerd" where the entire structure of the jokes is to continually laugh at them.

Maybe you should read the article?

I have. Maybe you shouldn't valorate poorly-founded clickbait opinion pieces, go beyond even what they argue, and then whine that people can't have read them if they don't agree with your post? Just a suggestion.

"The article and your post give a very partial and misleading picture"..
"YOU HAVEN'T READ IT!!1!!11!"

Suppose we can take this as your concession that you don't actually want to debate but just bait like a little child? Take that shit to twitter, lad.

[Chan Island]

An interesting case of role reversal, but I suspect that the majority of people from both groups are actually decent people on the whole, most of the time.

[Shofercia]

As someone who knows quite a bit about sports, there are plenty of good white jocks and bad nonwhite jocks.

Yes, indeed. Megan Rapinoe followed Kaepernick's example. "Good white (male) jocks" is virtually an oxymoron. Something like "a moderate Republican", only even more rare.

It is interesting that the New York Times chose whites as bad jocks and blacks as good jocks. And you're right, they didn't emphasize that. If they're so into identity politics, what're they afraid of? The Truth? Iraqi WMDs?

And how would *you* punish these... "enemies of the people" that write stuff that you don't like?

P.S. As I suspected - most are unapologetic.

Most NSGers are unapologetic to clickbait. You punish liars by humiliating them with the truth. Repeatedly. Altough I wouldn't call a lying opinion article writer an enemy of the people. As far as good white athletes are concerned - there are plenty of them. Same goes for every other skin color. There's yet to be a study that's legitimate and associates skin color with greed.

[Ifreann]

I don't know if this is a reversal of roles so much as "nerd culture", having reached considerable prominence in society, is now being subjected to critical examination, just like "jock culture" has been.

[Saiwania]

There is probably nothing wrong with being in either category. It is possible to be both a jock and a nerd, just that it is rare. It isn't necessarily diametrically opposed. There are good and bad people in either group. A jock will be heavily into sports whilst a nerd will know quite a lot about something that isn't necessarily important such as Star Wars.

Everyone to some extent should play a sport (its quite healthy) but if that isn't their forte, nothing wrong with being a more intellectual type. In the end, people will make their own choices or gravitate towards what is more familiar and comfortable for themselves.

[Right wing humour squad]

Jocks Rule, Nerds Drool

I used to love nerds. Or at least, I loved the idea of nerds. In the ’80s, ’90s and 2000s, there was an endless stream of movies and media, from “Revenge of the Nerds” to “Spider-Man” to “Beauty and the Geek,” dedicated to telling women that they’d be better off with nerds than with the arrogant jocks who would grunt cavemanlike in response to anything women said, before kicking sand in a nerd’s face.

Nerds were smart and decent underdogs who just needed a good-hearted lady to notice them and maybe get them a pair of contact lenses.

Boy, that stereotype does not hold up in 2018.

On the one hand we have “nerds” that:
- Harass female colleagues in tech companies
- Harass women during Gamergate
- Hang out on incel boards “talking about how Elliot Rodger was right to kill “blonde sorority sluts.””
- Elon Musk, “King of the Nerds”, “tweeted that a diver who assisted in rescuing 12 boys trapped in a cave in Thailand was a pedophile.”
- Chloe Dykstra, the ex-girlfriend of the Nerdist founder Chris Hardwick (whom Rolling Stone has called “King of the Nerds”), wrote in an essay that her boyfriend of three years had emotionally and sexually abused her.

Nerds are the overdogs now. If they got into tech early, they’re obscenely wealthy, and all of America now likes the stuff they enjoyed as kids. But they’re not wielding that power in a way that is especially kind or thoughtful.

On the other hand:
- On July 30, the N.B.A. star LeBron James opened a school in Akron, Ohio, that promises free lunches, bicycles and tuition to all its students, as well as guaranteed tuition at the University of Akron for all of its graduates. Many on Twitter pointed out that this might be a more generous use of wealth than attempting to fund space travel, as Mr. Musk hopes to do.
- Last week, another N.B.A. player, Stephen Curry, raised over $21,000 through a live-streamed event to help benefit the family of Nia Wilson, a young woman who was stabbed to death at a train station in Oakland, Calif.
- In June, the former N.F.L. player-turned-actor Terry Crews gave Senate testimony in which he spoke about having been sexually assaulted and warned against the “cult of toxic masculinity” that led him to believe he was more important than women.
- And of course there’s Colin Kaepernick, the former 49ers quarterback, who drew national attention to police brutality by kneeling during the national anthem.

In response to the peaceful protests Mr. Kaepernick inspired, President Trump suggested N.F.L. owners should “get that son of a bitch off the field right now.” In a fit of truly bizarre pettiness last September, the president uninvited Mr. Curry to the White House after Mr. Curry said he did not plan to go. On Aug. 3, after Mr. James criticized Mr. Trump during an interview about the new school, Mr. Trump tweeted, “Lebron James was just interviewed by the dumbest man on television, Don Lemon. He made Lebron look smart, which isn’t easy to do.” Mr. Curry quickly responded that the tweet was “based in some longstanding racism.”

The article fails to mention several important things:
- “Nerds” are deplorably often found among the Alt-Right and most toxic, hateful, racist boards like Reddit.
- Cited examples of “good jocks” are black. Cited examples of the “bad jocks” (Josh Hader of the Milwaukee Brewers and Sean Newcomb of the Atlanta Braves) are white. The article fails to emphasize that.

I think the article is right in delivering one simple clear message – “nerds” should not get a free pass anymore. Abused became abusers. They failed, by and large, to live up to be responsible with the newfound power of our modern age. It’s time for them to admit that and change accordingly. Meanwhile the society must learn to appreciate the heroes that already contribute greatly to it.

Do you agree? What is your opinion? Where do you stand in this debate?

I think you subscribe to a even more retarded form of identity politics than is common with your shitty, inaccurate cherry picked examples and poor justification.

[The Holy Therns]

I've met some damn nerdy jocks, how do they fit in to all of this?

[Costa Fierro]

Jesus Fucking Christ, so many hot takes it's difficult to pick a place to start, and that's just in the OP:

On the one hand we have “nerds” that:

Before we start, let's make things quite clear here. "Nerds" as I remember them were stereotyped as being smart but awkward and lonely kids who either excelled in maths or in science. The assumption that people in tech or enjoy a specific fandom or hobby are still "nerds" is not only ridiculous, it's also wrong, given that both of those are virtually mainstream things, not fringe stuff like older ideas of "nerd culture" or on the social fringes where nerds are typically portrayed as being.

And now for the meat'n'veg:

- Harass female colleagues in tech companies

This is hilariously wrong to the point of being fantastical. Most "harassment" is either imagined by those who claimed to be "victims" (like the women who had to take a day off after James Damore's memo was published because they were offended by it), or quite often, mistakes in social cues by actual nerds who spend most of the time doing proper tech stuff (don't ask me what it is because it's all fucking Greek to me) and therefore don't socialise that much. Especially when tech companies are filling their employee rosters with women whose sole qualification for being hired in the first place having a vagina. Because very few women actually have an interest in IT and tech and even fewer are willing to work the long hours many men do in order to actually get to where they are today. It's why "women in tech" is an absolute fucking joke. There's very few actual developers and technicians, it's basically just quota fillers swooning around the office with an entitlement the size of Manhattan.

- Harass women during Gamergate

Let's have a little bit of context here: Gamergate came about because one developer was more than happy to suck some dick if she got a good review. Then along come a bunch of feminists who defended her blatant prostitution and started calling male gamers every name under the sun and suggesting game companies cater to women. Cue most dudes not being happy about being labelled a bunch of woman-abusing misogynists for enjoying video games. Said video games are one of the few retreats that men have and women inserting themselves into it is pissing off a lot of men, because they're finding it difficult to have environments and time for themselves. All the while women are demanding women-only spaces to escape men.

Let alone the fact that we only know the names of women like Anita Sarkeesian purely because she claimed to be a victim of online harassment. Something which she milks to this day.

- Hang out on incel boards “talking about how Elliot Rodger was right to kill “blonde sorority sluts.””

Socially awkward doesn't automatically equate being a nerd, and vice versa. If you're going to sit there and say "all nerds are incels", then by rights I should get to make such generalisations of the same magnitude.

- Elon Musk, “King of the Nerds”, “tweeted that a diver who assisted in rescuing 12 boys trapped in a cave in Thailand was a pedophile.”

No, that's Elon Musk being a fuckwit. I have a pet hate for him because people portray him as some sort of mad genius. He's a genius in marketing, in that he manages to distract people from the latest bad news about Tesla's fortunes.

- Chloe Dykstra, the ex-girlfriend of the Nerdist founder Chris Hardwick (whom Rolling Stone has called “King of the Nerds”), wrote in an essay that her boyfriend of three years had emotionally and sexually abused her.

These weren't outright claims, these were insinuations that it was Hardwick. Which is somewhat worse than an outright accusation because it relies on others making the interpretations for themselves. Also largely discredits the allegations as well, given that if she wouldn't name the abuser outright (and in the current #MeToo climate, who the fuck wouldn't), it's likely because the allegations are as false as most of Dolly Parton's face.

- “Nerds” are deplorably often found among the Alt-Right and most toxic, hateful, racist boards like Reddit.

According to the New York Times, who will soon be appointing this lovely woman right here to their editorial board. Because she's a "decent" human being.

- Cited examples of “good jocks” are black. Cited examples of the “bad jocks” (Josh Hader of the Milwaukee Brewers and Sean Newcomb of the Atlanta Braves) are white. The article fails to emphasize that.

Ah yes, where would we be without the "Evil White Men" theorem. We're also ignoring that one of the most well known philanthropists in recent history is a lovely middle aged "computer nerd" Bill Gates, who over the years has given away the equivalent of $50 billion to charity.

I think the article is right in delivering one simple clear message – “nerds” should not get a free pass anymore.

Implying we're giving men free passes anyway.

Abused became abusers. They failed, by and large, to live up to be responsible with the newfound power of our modern age. It’s time for them to admit that and change accordingly. Meanwhile the society must learn to appreciate the heroes that already contribute greatly to it.

Such as Bill Gates.

[Costa Fierro]

it really just emphasises that the dominating patriarchal systems are sophisticated enough to adapt different modes of toxic masculinity be it the old emphasis on athleticism or the modern importance of intellectualism. Either way doiminant structurea are going to be put in place that enbsure that women and ehtnic minorities are disempowered within mainstream structures.

The overuse of meaningless and vapid buzzwords aside, the idea that the dominant structures currently, or perhaps will be, in place that ensure the continued "oppression" of women and ethnic minorities is a rather fanciful one, especially given the current drives to ensure that women and minorities are receiving an increasing share of the social pie. And given women are a privileged class in society, the discussion should really focus around ethnic minorities who do suffer from some genuine disadvantages.

[Ifreann]

I've met some damn nerdy jocks, how do they fit in to all of this?

They're being reversed into jocky nerds.

[Costa Fierro]

As someone who knows quite a bit about sports, there are plenty of good white jocks and bad nonwhite jocks. It is interesting that the New York Times chose whites as bad jocks and blacks as good jocks. And you're right, they didn't emphasize that. If they're so into identity politics, what're they afraid of? The Truth? Iraqi WMDs?

Probably the idea that generosity and charity aren't qualities that are defined by melanin levels. After all, there's a dominating narrative within the millennial left that all white people are evil.