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MAGAThread XIV: All persons born or naturalized ...

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Gravlen
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17261
Founded: Jul 01, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Gravlen » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:06 pm

Vassenor wrote:So does anyone have any response to Trump's protester comments that don't involve whataboutism regarding guns?

Eh, apart from the fact that he's showing of his stupidity again (as Iffy points out), it's not something I would spend time on, given the context.
EnragedMaldivians wrote:That's preposterous. Gravlens's not a white nationalist; Gravlen's a penguin.

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Sovaal
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13695
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Sovaal » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:06 pm

Galloism wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
"You need to own a TV to observe what our government is doing" is not a good precedent.

Oddly, I don't actually own a TV.

At least, I don't own a TV being used as a TV, in the traditional sense.

I too use a TV as a cutting board.
Most of the time I have no idea what the hell I'm doing or talking about.

”Many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe.
No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is
the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time." -
Winston Churchill, 1947.

"Rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon – so long as there is no answer to it – gives claws to the weak.” - George Orwell

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Ngelmish
Minister
 
Posts: 3071
Founded: Dec 06, 2009
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ngelmish » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:07 pm

Thyerata wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Because a judge is a person, a person has opinions, and opinions effect decisions.


In the UK, judges are people, they have opinions (but they're very good at impartiality) and I'm sure their opinions affect decisions. Still, no politics here


The premise -- and it's shared by members and politicians of both parties, though it's slanted more heavily towards one than the other -- is that judicial impartiality doesn't really exist because political outcomes are effected by judicial interpretation.

Of course, those arguing that point would piously argue in favor of judicial restraint, impartiality and the importance of political norms if they were confident that the judges currently in power would consistently rule in favor of their political outcomes. It's about authoritarian contempt for the idea that there are any meaningful rules to the game, not genuine principle.

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Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 68113
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:23 pm

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Tobleste
Minister
 
Posts: 2713
Founded: Dec 27, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tobleste » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:23 pm

Proctopeo wrote:
Vassenor wrote:Here's the thing though. How does only having a protest ban cover one room make it magically not a FA violation?

There are obviously some places forbidden from civilian protest, like pretty much the entire White House property, as well as many other government locations. Allowing protest in, say, the Situation Room, would be just silly. This is the same thinking behind not being allowed to yell "fire" in a crowded theater when there isn't an actual fire.
Where, exactly, are Kavanaugh hearings taking place, and what's the nature of the protest?


The protests seem to be about his threat to women's reproductive rights. As for the location, I think it's in some senate committee room.
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Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 68113
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:25 pm

Proctopeo wrote:
Vassenor wrote:Here's the thing though. How does only having a protest ban cover one room make it magically not a FA violation?

There are obviously some places forbidden from civilian protest, like pretty much the entire White House property, as well as many other government locations. Allowing protest in, say, the Situation Room, would be just silly. This is the same thinking behind not being allowed to yell "fire" in a crowded theater when there isn't an actual fire.
Where, exactly, are Kavanaugh hearings taking place, and what's the nature of the protest?


So how are these protests intended to incite imminent lawless action?
Last edited by Vassenor on Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jenny / Sailor Astraea
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MtF trans and proud - She / Her / etc.
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"Have you ever had a moment online, when the need to prove someone wrong has outweighed your own self-preservation instincts?"

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Jerzylvania
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14833
Founded: Aug 10, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Jerzylvania » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:38 pm

Sovaal wrote:
Jerzylvania wrote:I Am Part of the Resistance Inside the Trump Administration

Schizoprenic administration detected. Here's the whole thing in case you can't access the NYT...

President Trump is facing a test to his presidency unlike any faced by a modern American leader.

It’s not just that the special counsel looms large. Or that the country is bitterly divided over Mr. Trump’s leadership. Or even that his party might well lose the House to an opposition hellbent on his downfall.

The dilemma — which he does not fully grasp — is that many of the senior officials in his own administration are working diligently from within to frustrate parts of his agenda and his worst inclinations.

I would know. I am one of them.

To be clear, ours is not the popular “resistance” of the left. We want the administration to succeed and think that many of its policies have already made America safer and more prosperous.

But we believe our first duty is to this country, and the president continues to act in a manner that is detrimental to the health of our republic.

That is why many Trump appointees have vowed to do what we can to preserve our democratic institutions while thwarting Mr. Trump’s more misguided impulses until he is out of office.

The root of the problem is the president’s amorality. Anyone who works with him knows he is not moored to any discernible first principles that guide his decision making.

Although he was elected as a Republican, the president shows little affinity for ideals long espoused by conservatives: free minds, free markets and free people. At best, he has invoked these ideals in scripted settings. At worst, he has attacked them outright.

In addition to his mass-marketing of the notion that the press is the “enemy of the people,” President Trump’s impulses are generally anti-trade and anti-democratic.

Don’t get me wrong. There are bright spots that the near-ceaseless negative coverage of the administration fails to capture: effective deregulation, historic tax reform, a more robust military and more.

But these successes have come despite — not because of — the president’s leadership style, which is impetuous, adversarial, petty and ineffective.

From the White House to executive branch departments and agencies, senior officials will privately admit their daily disbelief at the commander in chief’s comments and actions. Most are working to insulate their operations from his whims.

Meetings with him veer off topic and off the rails, he engages in repetitive rants, and his impulsiveness results in half-baked, ill-informed and occasionally reckless decisions that have to be walked back.

“There is literally no telling whether he might change his mind from one minute to the next,” a top official complained to me recently, exasperated by an Oval Office meeting at which the president flip-flopped on a major policy decision he’d made only a week earlier.

The erratic behavior would be more concerning if it weren’t for unsung heroes in and around the White House. Some of his aides have been cast as villains by the media. But in private, they have gone to great lengths to keep bad decisions contained to the West Wing, though they are clearly not always successful.

It may be cold comfort in this chaotic era, but Americans should know that there are adults in the room. We fully recognize what is happening. And we are trying to do what’s right even when Donald Trump won’t.

The result is a two-track presidency.

Take foreign policy: In public and in private, President Trump shows a preference for autocrats and dictators, such as President Vladimir Putin of Russia and North Korea’s leader, Kim Jong-un, and displays little genuine appreciation for the ties that bind us to allied, like-minded nations.

Astute observers have noted, though, that the rest of the administration is operating on another track, one where countries like Russia are called out for meddling and punished accordingly, and where allies around the world are engaged as peers rather than ridiculed as rivals.

On Russia, for instance, the president was reluctant to expel so many of Mr. Putin’s spies as punishment for the poisoning of a former Russian spy in Britain. He complained for weeks about senior staff members letting him get boxed into further confrontation with Russia, and he expressed frustration that the United States continued to impose sanctions on the country for its malign behavior. But his national security team knew better — such actions had to be taken, to hold Moscow accountable.

This isn’t the work of the so-called deep state. It’s the work of the steady state.

Given the instability many witnessed, there were early whispers within the cabinet of invoking the 25th Amendment, which would start a complex process for removing the president. But no one wanted to precipitate a constitutional crisis. So we will do what we can to steer the administration in the right direction until — one way or another — it’s over.

The bigger concern is not what Mr. Trump has done to the presidency but rather what we as a nation have allowed him to do to us. We have sunk low with him and allowed our discourse to be stripped of civility.

Senator John McCain put it best in his farewell letter. All Americans should heed his words and break free of the tribalism trap, with the high aim of uniting through our shared values and love of this great nation.

We may no longer have Senator McCain. But we will always have his example — a lodestar for restoring honor to public life and our national dialogue. Mr. Trump may fear such honorable men, but we should revere them.

There is a quiet resistance within the administration of people choosing to put country first. But the real difference will be made by everyday citizens rising above politics, reaching across the aisle and resolving to shed the labels in favor of a single one: Americans.

The writer is a senior official in the Trump administration.

1; Im sure he is.
2: Still, would any of us here be surprised if it came out that Trump did basically fuck all?


There are a few diehards on this forum who will go down to the bottom with the Trump ship. I figure this happens when the midterms are a GOP disaster in the House and Trump points fingers at everyone but him. Meanwhile the GOP congressional delegation will finally lay blame to Trump. OTOH, if the Senate somehow goes to the Dems, then it's all over for Donnie and enough of them jump off the Trump ship to convict. He resigns by Jan 3rd 2019 when the new congress convenes and Pence gives him a blanket pardon. Then the GOP commences to pretend they were on the right side of this all along. Just wait and see.
Last edited by Jerzylvania on Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Donald Trump has no clue as to what "insuring the domestic tranquility" means

The Baltimore Orioles are shocking the baseball world!

Jerzylvania is the NFL Picks League Champion in 2018 and in 2020 as puppet Traffic Signal and AGAIN in 2023 as puppet Joe Munchkin !!!

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Proctopeo
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12370
Founded: Sep 26, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Proctopeo » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:40 pm

Tobleste wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:There are obviously some places forbidden from civilian protest, like pretty much the entire White House property, as well as many other government locations. Allowing protest in, say, the Situation Room, would be just silly. This is the same thinking behind not being allowed to yell "fire" in a crowded theater when there isn't an actual fire.
Where, exactly, are Kavanaugh hearings taking place, and what's the nature of the protest?


The protests seem to be about his threat to women's reproductive rights. As for the location, I think it's in some senate committee room.

That's a bit of a gray area then. Protest seems inappropriate for the situation and location, but allowing it isn't particularly wrong or weird there.

Vassenor wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:There are obviously some places forbidden from civilian protest, like pretty much the entire White House property, as well as many other government locations. Allowing protest in, say, the Situation Room, would be just silly. This is the same thinking behind not being allowed to yell "fire" in a crowded theater when there isn't an actual fire.
Where, exactly, are Kavanaugh hearings taking place, and what's the nature of the protest?

So how are these protests intended to incite imminent lawless action?

You avoided the entire other half of my post, lol
try rereading it
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Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 68113
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:42 pm

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Jerzylvania
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14833
Founded: Aug 10, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Jerzylvania » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:58 pm



That word is unusual. The fact it keeps turning up in Pence's words year after year is telling. The 25th amendment which is mentioned by the author is all about replacing Trump with Pence. Wow.

If this would be true, will Trump try and fire Pence? Oh Lordy.
Donald Trump has no clue as to what "insuring the domestic tranquility" means

The Baltimore Orioles are shocking the baseball world!

Jerzylvania is the NFL Picks League Champion in 2018 and in 2020 as puppet Traffic Signal and AGAIN in 2023 as puppet Joe Munchkin !!!

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Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 73175
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:59 pm

Jerzylvania wrote:


That word is unusual. The fact it keeps turning up in Pence's words year after year is telling. The 25th amendment which is mentioned by the author is all about replacing Trump with Pence. Wow.

If this would be true, will Trump try and fire Pence? Oh Lordy.

Trump can't fire Pence. He's an elected official.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Jerzylvania
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Posts: 14833
Founded: Aug 10, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Jerzylvania » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:01 pm

Galloism wrote:
Jerzylvania wrote:
That word is unusual. The fact it keeps turning up in Pence's words year after year is telling. The 25th amendment which is mentioned by the author is all about replacing Trump with Pence. Wow.

If this would be true, will Trump try and fire Pence? Oh Lordy.

Trump can't fire Pence. He's an elected official.


Thanks for that newsflash. I know, but does idiot Trump?

If Trump's head hasn't exploded yet this may do it. OTOH, maybe the actual author chose this word to throw off the scent of the bloodhounds?

If Trump's base thinks Mike Pence wrote this, then Pence's compromised politically going forward. He'd never win election in 2020. Think about it.
Last edited by Jerzylvania on Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Donald Trump has no clue as to what "insuring the domestic tranquility" means

The Baltimore Orioles are shocking the baseball world!

Jerzylvania is the NFL Picks League Champion in 2018 and in 2020 as puppet Traffic Signal and AGAIN in 2023 as puppet Joe Munchkin !!!

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Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 68113
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:04 pm

Also he may be randomly shouting about treason again.
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"Have you ever had a moment online, when the need to prove someone wrong has outweighed your own self-preservation instincts?"

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Jerzylvania
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Posts: 14833
Founded: Aug 10, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Jerzylvania » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:05 pm

A category 7 tweet storm is in the forecast.
Donald Trump has no clue as to what "insuring the domestic tranquility" means

The Baltimore Orioles are shocking the baseball world!

Jerzylvania is the NFL Picks League Champion in 2018 and in 2020 as puppet Traffic Signal and AGAIN in 2023 as puppet Joe Munchkin !!!

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Major-Tom
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15697
Founded: Mar 09, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Major-Tom » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:42 pm

Jerzylvania wrote:
Galloism wrote:Trump can't fire Pence. He's an elected official.


Thanks for that newsflash. I know, but does idiot Trump?

If Trump's head hasn't exploded yet this may do it. OTOH, maybe the actual author chose this word to throw off the scent of the bloodhounds?

If Trump's base thinks Mike Pence wrote this, then Pence's compromised politically going forward. He'd never win election in 2020. Think about it.


I have a feeling it was an author using the word to throw off the scent, as you said. That seems most plausible. Or coincidence (though even I had never heard of the word lodestar, to be quite honest).

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Jerzylvania
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Posts: 14833
Founded: Aug 10, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Jerzylvania » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:15 pm

Major-Tom wrote:
Jerzylvania wrote:
Thanks for that newsflash. I know, but does idiot Trump?

If Trump's head hasn't exploded yet this may do it. OTOH, maybe the actual author chose this word to throw off the scent of the bloodhounds?

If Trump's base thinks Mike Pence wrote this, then Pence's compromised politically going forward. He'd never win election in 2020. Think about it.


I have a feeling it was an author using the word to throw off the scent, as you said. That seems most plausible. Or coincidence (though even I had never heard of the word lodestar, to be quite honest).


FWIW, I'm pretty old and went to college etc etc etc. and I don't recall ever hearing the word before either. I'm also wondering who else uses that word regularly, going back at least to the 1990s (the earliest record found so far of the many times Pence used it was as an IN rep at a congressional hearing on the EPA in 2001). Pence picked it up somewhere in his life. I'd be interested in where and why he loves that odd word so much.

Now, the motive of another high WH official using it is simple. Ruin Pence. So they must support someone else for the 2020 GOP nomination other than Trump or Pence. Maybe low energy Jeb has a low friend in a high place who's very clever.
Last edited by Jerzylvania on Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Donald Trump has no clue as to what "insuring the domestic tranquility" means

The Baltimore Orioles are shocking the baseball world!

Jerzylvania is the NFL Picks League Champion in 2018 and in 2020 as puppet Traffic Signal and AGAIN in 2023 as puppet Joe Munchkin !!!

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Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 163884
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:20 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Ifreann wrote:And that's fucking demented, and therefore the posters lining up to agree with him just to be contrarian should stop doing so.


I don't think you understand what we're agreeing with.

I understand perfectly. You were very clear.
Washington Resistance Army wrote:He's absolutely correct in that it's embarrassing for the country to allow morons to stand up and start screeching about shit while we're trying to evaluate the merits of a potential Justice.

But you don't allow that. You arrested people for doing that. TWhat am I going to hear next, you allowed Ted Bundy to kill all those people?


Telconi wrote:
Ifreann wrote:And that's fucking demented, and therefore the posters lining up to agree with him just to be contrarian should stop doing so.


Murder is illegal, do you consider those who want gun free zones in schools 'fucking demented'?

You must be lost, this is the Trump thread, not the gun control thread.

The Police stopping a man who has done nothing wrong and then harassing him, or worse, framing him for drug possession or something is illegal, do you consider people who advocate for police body cameras to be 'fucking demented'?

We could go on...

I'm sure you could. Maybe if you went on for long enough you might realise that what I am calling demented is the President somehow failing to understand that since people were arrested for screaming from the gallery, they very obviously are not allowed to scream from the gallery, and it is very obviously not true that nothing was done to stop them screaming from the gallery.

But gosh, this is so inconsiderate of me. You keep trying to talk about whether Congress should have public galleries, and here I am talking about Trump and his mind-boggling ignorance.
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we never run from the devil
we never summon the devil
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we never

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Scomagia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18703
Founded: Apr 14, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Scomagia » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:41 pm

Look, I dislike Trump, but am I the only one who has concerns about insubordination in the White House? He may be a completely unqualified, amoral business crook but he is The President.
Insert trite farewell here

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The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34994
Founded: Dec 18, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:50 pm

Jerzylvania wrote:I Am Part of the Resistance Inside the Trump Administration

Schizoprenic administration detected. Here's the whole thing in case you can't access the NYT...
President Trump is facing a test to his presidency unlike any faced by a modern American leader.

It’s not just that the special counsel looms large. Or that the country is bitterly divided over Mr. Trump’s leadership. Or even that his party might well lose the House to an opposition hellbent on his downfall.

The dilemma — which he does not fully grasp — is that many of the senior officials in his own administration are working diligently from within to frustrate parts of his agenda and his worst inclinations.

I would know. I am one of them.

To be clear, ours is not the popular “resistance” of the left. We want the administration to succeed and think that many of its policies have already made America safer and more prosperous.

But we believe our first duty is to this country, and the president continues to act in a manner that is detrimental to the health of our republic.

That is why many Trump appointees have vowed to do what we can to preserve our democratic institutions while thwarting Mr. Trump’s more misguided impulses until he is out of office.

The root of the problem is the president’s amorality. Anyone who works with him knows he is not moored to any discernible first principles that guide his decision making.

Although he was elected as a Republican, the president shows little affinity for ideals long espoused by conservatives: free minds, free markets and free people. At best, he has invoked these ideals in scripted settings. At worst, he has attacked them outright.

In addition to his mass-marketing of the notion that the press is the “enemy of the people,” President Trump’s impulses are generally anti-trade and anti-democratic.

Don’t get me wrong. There are bright spots that the near-ceaseless negative coverage of the administration fails to capture: effective deregulation, historic tax reform, a more robust military and more.

But these successes have come despite — not because of — the president’s leadership style, which is impetuous, adversarial, petty and ineffective.

From the White House to executive branch departments and agencies, senior officials will privately admit their daily disbelief at the commander in chief’s comments and actions. Most are working to insulate their operations from his whims.

Meetings with him veer off topic and off the rails, he engages in repetitive rants, and his impulsiveness results in half-baked, ill-informed and occasionally reckless decisions that have to be walked back.

“There is literally no telling whether he might change his mind from one minute to the next,” a top official complained to me recently, exasperated by an Oval Office meeting at which the president flip-flopped on a major policy decision he’d made only a week earlier.

The erratic behavior would be more concerning if it weren’t for unsung heroes in and around the White House. Some of his aides have been cast as villains by the media. But in private, they have gone to great lengths to keep bad decisions contained to the West Wing, though they are clearly not always successful.

It may be cold comfort in this chaotic era, but Americans should know that there are adults in the room. We fully recognize what is happening. And we are trying to do what’s right even when Donald Trump won’t.

The result is a two-track presidency.

Take foreign policy: In public and in private, President Trump shows a preference for autocrats and dictators, such as President Vladimir Putin of Russia and North Korea’s leader, Kim Jong-un, and displays little genuine appreciation for the ties that bind us to allied, like-minded nations.

Astute observers have noted, though, that the rest of the administration is operating on another track, one where countries like Russia are called out for meddling and punished accordingly, and where allies around the world are engaged as peers rather than ridiculed as rivals.

On Russia, for instance, the president was reluctant to expel so many of Mr. Putin’s spies as punishment for the poisoning of a former Russian spy in Britain. He complained for weeks about senior staff members letting him get boxed into further confrontation with Russia, and he expressed frustration that the United States continued to impose sanctions on the country for its malign behavior. But his national security team knew better — such actions had to be taken, to hold Moscow accountable.

This isn’t the work of the so-called deep state. It’s the work of the steady state.

Given the instability many witnessed, there were early whispers within the cabinet of invoking the 25th Amendment, which would start a complex process for removing the president. But no one wanted to precipitate a constitutional crisis. So we will do what we can to steer the administration in the right direction until — one way or another — it’s over.

The bigger concern is not what Mr. Trump has done to the presidency but rather what we as a nation have allowed him to do to us. We have sunk low with him and allowed our discourse to be stripped of civility.

Senator John McCain put it best in his farewell letter. All Americans should heed his words and break free of the tribalism trap, with the high aim of uniting through our shared values and love of this great nation.

We may no longer have Senator McCain. But we will always have his example — a lodestar for restoring honor to public life and our national dialogue. Mr. Trump may fear such honorable men, but we should revere them.

There is a quiet resistance within the administration of people choosing to put country first. But the real difference will be made by everyday citizens rising above politics, reaching across the aisle and resolving to shed the labels in favor of a single one: Americans.

The writer is a senior official in the Trump administration.


Wow.

User avatar
Seangoli
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5998
Founded: Sep 24, 2006
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Seangoli » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:52 pm

Sovaal wrote:1; Im sure he is.
2: Still, would any of us here be surprised if it came out that Trump did basically fuck all?


To 1, Sarah Sanders more or less admitted to believing the person is actually in the administration by stating they should resign. It seems the administration believes whomever wrote the op-ed is the real deal.

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Sovaal
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13695
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Sovaal » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:53 pm

Seangoli wrote:
Sovaal wrote:1; Im sure he is.
2: Still, would any of us here be surprised if it came out that Trump did basically fuck all?


To 1, Sarah Sanders more or less admitted to believing the person is actually in the administration by stating they should resign. It seems the administration believes whomever wrote the op-ed is the real deal.

Eh, I'd be surprised if anything comes from it if true.
Most of the time I have no idea what the hell I'm doing or talking about.

”Many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe.
No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is
the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time." -
Winston Churchill, 1947.

"Rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon – so long as there is no answer to it – gives claws to the weak.” - George Orwell

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Jerzylvania
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14833
Founded: Aug 10, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Jerzylvania » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:54 pm

Scomagia wrote:Look, I dislike Trump, but am I the only one who has concerns about insubordination in the White House? He may be a completely unqualified, amoral business crook but he is The President.


Sorry but no, I doubt there is much concern about it considering the overall situation.
Donald Trump has no clue as to what "insuring the domestic tranquility" means

The Baltimore Orioles are shocking the baseball world!

Jerzylvania is the NFL Picks League Champion in 2018 and in 2020 as puppet Traffic Signal and AGAIN in 2023 as puppet Joe Munchkin !!!

User avatar
Geneviev
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16432
Founded: Mar 03, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Geneviev » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:55 pm

Jerzylvania wrote:I Am Part of the Resistance Inside the Trump Administration

Schizoprenic administration detected. Here's the whole thing in case you can't access the NYT...

President Trump is facing a test to his presidency unlike any faced by a modern American leader.

It’s not just that the special counsel looms large. Or that the country is bitterly divided over Mr. Trump’s leadership. Or even that his party might well lose the House to an opposition hellbent on his downfall.

The dilemma — which he does not fully grasp — is that many of the senior officials in his own administration are working diligently from within to frustrate parts of his agenda and his worst inclinations.

I would know. I am one of them.

To be clear, ours is not the popular “resistance” of the left. We want the administration to succeed and think that many of its policies have already made America safer and more prosperous.

But we believe our first duty is to this country, and the president continues to act in a manner that is detrimental to the health of our republic.

That is why many Trump appointees have vowed to do what we can to preserve our democratic institutions while thwarting Mr. Trump’s more misguided impulses until he is out of office.

The root of the problem is the president’s amorality. Anyone who works with him knows he is not moored to any discernible first principles that guide his decision making.

Although he was elected as a Republican, the president shows little affinity for ideals long espoused by conservatives: free minds, free markets and free people. At best, he has invoked these ideals in scripted settings. At worst, he has attacked them outright.

In addition to his mass-marketing of the notion that the press is the “enemy of the people,” President Trump’s impulses are generally anti-trade and anti-democratic.

Don’t get me wrong. There are bright spots that the near-ceaseless negative coverage of the administration fails to capture: effective deregulation, historic tax reform, a more robust military and more.

But these successes have come despite — not because of — the president’s leadership style, which is impetuous, adversarial, petty and ineffective.

From the White House to executive branch departments and agencies, senior officials will privately admit their daily disbelief at the commander in chief’s comments and actions. Most are working to insulate their operations from his whims.

Meetings with him veer off topic and off the rails, he engages in repetitive rants, and his impulsiveness results in half-baked, ill-informed and occasionally reckless decisions that have to be walked back.

“There is literally no telling whether he might change his mind from one minute to the next,” a top official complained to me recently, exasperated by an Oval Office meeting at which the president flip-flopped on a major policy decision he’d made only a week earlier.

The erratic behavior would be more concerning if it weren’t for unsung heroes in and around the White House. Some of his aides have been cast as villains by the media. But in private, they have gone to great lengths to keep bad decisions contained to the West Wing, though they are clearly not always successful.

It may be cold comfort in this chaotic era, but Americans should know that there are adults in the room. We fully recognize what is happening. And we are trying to do what’s right even when Donald Trump won’t.

The result is a two-track presidency.

Take foreign policy: In public and in private, President Trump shows a preference for autocrats and dictators, such as President Vladimir Putin of Russia and North Korea’s leader, Kim Jong-un, and displays little genuine appreciation for the ties that bind us to allied, like-minded nations.

Astute observers have noted, though, that the rest of the administration is operating on another track, one where countries like Russia are called out for meddling and punished accordingly, and where allies around the world are engaged as peers rather than ridiculed as rivals.

On Russia, for instance, the president was reluctant to expel so many of Mr. Putin’s spies as punishment for the poisoning of a former Russian spy in Britain. He complained for weeks about senior staff members letting him get boxed into further confrontation with Russia, and he expressed frustration that the United States continued to impose sanctions on the country for its malign behavior. But his national security team knew better — such actions had to be taken, to hold Moscow accountable.

This isn’t the work of the so-called deep state. It’s the work of the steady state.

Given the instability many witnessed, there were early whispers within the cabinet of invoking the 25th Amendment, which would start a complex process for removing the president. But no one wanted to precipitate a constitutional crisis. So we will do what we can to steer the administration in the right direction until — one way or another — it’s over.

The bigger concern is not what Mr. Trump has done to the presidency but rather what we as a nation have allowed him to do to us. We have sunk low with him and allowed our discourse to be stripped of civility.

Senator John McCain put it best in his farewell letter. All Americans should heed his words and break free of the tribalism trap, with the high aim of uniting through our shared values and love of this great nation.

We may no longer have Senator McCain. But we will always have his example — a lodestar for restoring honor to public life and our national dialogue. Mr. Trump may fear such honorable men, but we should revere them.

There is a quiet resistance within the administration of people choosing to put country first. But the real difference will be made by everyday citizens rising above politics, reaching across the aisle and resolving to shed the labels in favor of a single one: Americans.

The writer is a senior official in the Trump administration.

This is exactly what the world needs right now. A sign that the White House isn't completely insane.
"Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins." 1 Peter 4:8

User avatar
Jerzylvania
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14833
Founded: Aug 10, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Jerzylvania » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:58 pm

Seangoli wrote:
Sovaal wrote:1; Im sure he is.
2: Still, would any of us here be surprised if it came out that Trump did basically fuck all?


To 1, Sarah Sanders more or less admitted to believing the person is actually in the administration by stating they should resign. It seems the administration believes whomever wrote the op-ed is the real deal.


The NYT knows exactly who wrote it. They wouldn't publish it otherwise. I also believe they wouldn't try publish a low level WH employee, like a speech writer. This has to be a big fish.
Donald Trump has no clue as to what "insuring the domestic tranquility" means

The Baltimore Orioles are shocking the baseball world!

Jerzylvania is the NFL Picks League Champion in 2018 and in 2020 as puppet Traffic Signal and AGAIN in 2023 as puppet Joe Munchkin !!!

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 163884
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:08 pm

Seangoli wrote:
Sovaal wrote:1; Im sure he is.
2: Still, would any of us here be surprised if it came out that Trump did basically fuck all?


To 1, Sarah Sanders more or less admitted to believing the person is actually in the administration by stating they should resign. It seems the administration believes whomever wrote the op-ed is the real deal.

Shyamalan twist: It was Trump.


Geneviev wrote:
Jerzylvania wrote:I Am Part of the Resistance Inside the Trump Administration

Schizoprenic administration detected. Here's the whole thing in case you can't access the NYT...

President Trump is facing a test to his presidency unlike any faced by a modern American leader.

It’s not just that the special counsel looms large. Or that the country is bitterly divided over Mr. Trump’s leadership. Or even that his party might well lose the House to an opposition hellbent on his downfall.

The dilemma — which he does not fully grasp — is that many of the senior officials in his own administration are working diligently from within to frustrate parts of his agenda and his worst inclinations.

I would know. I am one of them.

To be clear, ours is not the popular “resistance” of the left. We want the administration to succeed and think that many of its policies have already made America safer and more prosperous.

But we believe our first duty is to this country, and the president continues to act in a manner that is detrimental to the health of our republic.

That is why many Trump appointees have vowed to do what we can to preserve our democratic institutions while thwarting Mr. Trump’s more misguided impulses until he is out of office.

The root of the problem is the president’s amorality. Anyone who works with him knows he is not moored to any discernible first principles that guide his decision making.

Although he was elected as a Republican, the president shows little affinity for ideals long espoused by conservatives: free minds, free markets and free people. At best, he has invoked these ideals in scripted settings. At worst, he has attacked them outright.

In addition to his mass-marketing of the notion that the press is the “enemy of the people,” President Trump’s impulses are generally anti-trade and anti-democratic.

Don’t get me wrong. There are bright spots that the near-ceaseless negative coverage of the administration fails to capture: effective deregulation, historic tax reform, a more robust military and more.

But these successes have come despite — not because of — the president’s leadership style, which is impetuous, adversarial, petty and ineffective.

From the White House to executive branch departments and agencies, senior officials will privately admit their daily disbelief at the commander in chief’s comments and actions. Most are working to insulate their operations from his whims.

Meetings with him veer off topic and off the rails, he engages in repetitive rants, and his impulsiveness results in half-baked, ill-informed and occasionally reckless decisions that have to be walked back.

“There is literally no telling whether he might change his mind from one minute to the next,” a top official complained to me recently, exasperated by an Oval Office meeting at which the president flip-flopped on a major policy decision he’d made only a week earlier.

The erratic behavior would be more concerning if it weren’t for unsung heroes in and around the White House. Some of his aides have been cast as villains by the media. But in private, they have gone to great lengths to keep bad decisions contained to the West Wing, though they are clearly not always successful.

It may be cold comfort in this chaotic era, but Americans should know that there are adults in the room. We fully recognize what is happening. And we are trying to do what’s right even when Donald Trump won’t.

The result is a two-track presidency.

Take foreign policy: In public and in private, President Trump shows a preference for autocrats and dictators, such as President Vladimir Putin of Russia and North Korea’s leader, Kim Jong-un, and displays little genuine appreciation for the ties that bind us to allied, like-minded nations.

Astute observers have noted, though, that the rest of the administration is operating on another track, one where countries like Russia are called out for meddling and punished accordingly, and where allies around the world are engaged as peers rather than ridiculed as rivals.

On Russia, for instance, the president was reluctant to expel so many of Mr. Putin’s spies as punishment for the poisoning of a former Russian spy in Britain. He complained for weeks about senior staff members letting him get boxed into further confrontation with Russia, and he expressed frustration that the United States continued to impose sanctions on the country for its malign behavior. But his national security team knew better — such actions had to be taken, to hold Moscow accountable.

This isn’t the work of the so-called deep state. It’s the work of the steady state.

Given the instability many witnessed, there were early whispers within the cabinet of invoking the 25th Amendment, which would start a complex process for removing the president. But no one wanted to precipitate a constitutional crisis. So we will do what we can to steer the administration in the right direction until — one way or another — it’s over.

The bigger concern is not what Mr. Trump has done to the presidency but rather what we as a nation have allowed him to do to us. We have sunk low with him and allowed our discourse to be stripped of civility.

Senator John McCain put it best in his farewell letter. All Americans should heed his words and break free of the tribalism trap, with the high aim of uniting through our shared values and love of this great nation.

We may no longer have Senator McCain. But we will always have his example — a lodestar for restoring honor to public life and our national dialogue. Mr. Trump may fear such honorable men, but we should revere them.

There is a quiet resistance within the administration of people choosing to put country first. But the real difference will be made by everyday citizens rising above politics, reaching across the aisle and resolving to shed the labels in favor of a single one: Americans.

The writer is a senior official in the Trump administration.

This is exactly what the world needs right now. A sign that the White House isn't completely insane.

Everyone already knew that. This is the Republicans giving themselves an out in case Trump crashes and burns. "It's not OUR fault! We were keeping the country running while that crazy man was at the helm."
He/Him

beating the devil
we never run from the devil
we never summon the devil
we never hide from from the devil
we never

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