MAGAThread XIV: All persons born or naturalized ...

[Kaggeceria]

So what you're saying is we should nationalize the arms industry?

Actually yes.

I second this.

[Ism]

So what you're saying is we should nationalize the arms industry?

Clearly the US's private military-industrial complex cabal isn't working so well considering that the price of equipment is absolutely goddamn insane.

I mean, what can you do? There's no way you get Republican support to nationalize an industry, and I doubt you get much support from the Democrats either.

[Communist Xomaniax]

Honestly, a lot of defense industries should probably be nationalized, private contractors are openly fleecing the government.

[Valrifell]

Lmao what, I just saw the thing where Trump was complaining about the defense budget which he I'm pretty sure ASKED FOR AND APPROVED? And isn't the "arms race" kinda his fault too? He's legitimately railing against stuff he actually signed into law now holy shit.

I can explain: the man is a jackass and a buffoon

What an interesting and novel theory.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Clearly the US's private military-industrial complex cabal isn't working so well considering that the price of equipment is absolutely goddamn insane.

I mean, what can you do? There's no way you get Republican support to nationalize an industry, and I doubt you get much support from the Democrats either.

Yet the private arms industry keep selling their equipment for virtually extortionate prices.

[Ism]

I mean, what can you do? There's no way you get Republican support to nationalize an industry, and I doubt you get much support from the Democrats either.

Yet the private arms industry keep selling their equipment for virtually extortionate prices.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Yet the private arms industry keep selling their equipment for virtually extortionate prices.

Not like either the Democrats or Republicans would ever dare do that, but the US armed forces would be better off nationalizing the arms industry, crush the private military-industrial complex cabal, bring them to court for extortion and corruption, and probably piss on the Lockheed-Martin HQ just for good measure.

[Corrian]

Daily reminder that it's dumb as shit to compare raw numbers for defense spending and base your opinion solely on that. China and Russia both have massive state owned military industries that can outfit and equip their units for far cheaper than we can.

ffs Russia can get a whole platoon of modernized T-90's for the same price we can buy a single Abrams.

Yeah, we buy shit for way overpriced here. It's sad.

[Corrian]

Michael Flynn Has Provided 'Substantial Assistance' In Russia Inquiry, Feds Say

Former national security adviser Michael Flynn has provided "substantial" aid in the Russia investigation and beyond — and that merits a judge's consideration at Flynn's sentencing this month, prosecutors said in court papers late Tuesday.

The government said in a memo to a federal judge that it believes sentencing for Flynn should be lenient and that even a sentence without prison time "is appropriate and warranted."

That must be pretty damn big if they're suggesting potentially no prison time at all because of assistance he's given them.

[Bombadil]

Michael Flynn Has Provided 'Substantial Assistance' In Russia Inquiry, Feds Say

Former national security adviser Michael Flynn has provided "substantial" aid in the Russia investigation and beyond — and that merits a judge's consideration at Flynn's sentencing this month, prosecutors said in court papers late Tuesday.

The government said in a memo to a federal judge that it believes sentencing for Flynn should be lenient and that even a sentence without prison time "is appropriate and warranted."

That must be pretty damn big if they're suggesting potentially no prison time at all because of assistance he's given them.

One can hope..

..meanwhile in the classic Mafia move of demanding loyalty over the law, Eric Trump attacks KellyAnne Conway's husband after he noted that Trump was indeed potentially guilty of witness tampering in regards to Roger Stone.

The spat began Monday when Conway, a frequent Trump critic despite being husband to top Trump adviser Kellyanne Conway, suggested the president had engaged in witness tampering when he tweeted about longtime associate Roger Stone’s vow to stand up to special counsel Robert Mueller.

What is Eric's reply?

Of all the ugliness in politics, the utter disrespect George Conway shows toward his wife, her career, place of work, and everything she has fought SO hard to achieve, might top them all. @KellyannePolls is great person and frankly his actions are horrible.

Yep, disloyalty is the real crime in the world of Don Trump & family.. though as Reza Aslan notes..

“Wait. Did I miss something? Did George Conway pay money to have sex with a porn star right after his wife gave birth?”

With baited breath we all awaited Eric Trump's witty putdown..

For his part, on Tuesday Eric Trump simply retweeted his own tweet. It was a typically Trumpian move. No matter how much blowback you might get for saying something in a tweet, you can always double down.

[Telconi]

Michael Flynn Has Provided 'Substantial Assistance' In Russia Inquiry, Feds Say

Former national security adviser Michael Flynn has provided "substantial" aid in the Russia investigation and beyond — and that merits a judge's consideration at Flynn's sentencing this month, prosecutors said in court papers late Tuesday.

The government said in a memo to a federal judge that it believes sentencing for Flynn should be lenient and that even a sentence without prison time "is appropriate and warranted."

That must be pretty damn big if they're suggesting potentially no prison time at all because of assistance he's given them.

Depends on how much he was looking at otherwise.

[Duhon]

Mike Pompeo: Donald Trump building "liberal world order"

Donald Trump is building a “new liberal order” under US leadership, based on the principle of putting national sovereignty before multilateralism for its own sake, his secretary of state has claimed.

In a speech in Brussels before a Nato ministers meeting, Mike Pompeo sought to frame Trump’s foreign policy decisions as a coherent doctrine to a European audience that is increasingly anxious about US withdrawal from a string of treaties and Trump’s antipathy towards the European Union.

He listed a series of current international institutions, including the EU, UN, World Bank and the International Monetary Fund, that he said were no longer serving their mission they were created.

He argued that Trump’s reassertion of national sovereignty through his “America First” policy would make those institutions function better. “In the finest traditions of our great democracy, we are rallying the noble nations of the world to build a new liberal order that prevents war and achieves greater prosperity for all,” Pompeo said at a speech at the German Marshall Fund thinktank. “We’re supporting institutions that we believe can be improved; institutions that work in American interests – and yours – in service of our shared values.”

The remarks were frequently punctuated with praise for Trump, who is referred to 13 times in the text. Pompeo portrayed his president as restoring an era of triumphal US leadership in the world, for the first time since the end of the cold war.

“This American leadership allowed us to enjoy the greatest human flourishing in modern history,” the secretary of state said. “We won the cold war. We won the peace. With no small measure of George HW Bush’s effort, we reunited Germany. This is the type of leadership that President Trump is boldly reasserting.

“After the cold war ended, we allowed this liberal order to begin to corrode. Multilateralism has too often become viewed as an end unto itself. The more treaties we sign, the safer we supposedly are. The more bureaucrats we have, the better the job gets done.”

The Trump administration has alarmed European governments with making a bonfire of treaties, walking out of the 2015 nuclear deal with Iran, withdrawing from talks with Europe on the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership, pulling out of the Paris climate agreement and the UN global compact on migration. At last week’s G20 summit, European officials pushed back against their US counterparts who were under instructions to eliminate references to multilateralism and a rules-based international order.

Trump has also declared he wants to abandon the intermediate-range nuclear forces treaty with Russia, because of violations by Moscow. European capitals are seeking to broker a solution that would salvage the treaty, which kept nuclear missiles out of Europe for more than 25 years.

They feared that Pompeo would come to this week’s Nato meeting with a formal notice of withdrawal that would start a six-month clock ticking for its dissolution, but formal withdrawal is now not expected until the new year, leaving a small window open for last-minute efforts to save the treaty through a joint Nato effort to confront Russia over its suspected violation: the development of a ground-launched cruise missile.

Pompeo’s speech received polite applause, but Julianne Smith, a senior foreign policy official during Barack Obama’s time at the White House, said it had shocked US allies across Europe.

“The first words that come to mind are tone deaf,” said Smith, now a senior fellow at the Bosch Academy in Berlin. “It’s as if they have no appreciation of how Europeans are trying to figure out how to cope with an administration that they see as abdicating American leadership.

“The speech just gives Europe a long to-do list – just do this, do that, with no vision to go with it. No one I talk to here believes this administration is committed to a rules-based order.”

So liberal
Much order
Wow

(Also, Euro diplomats were expecting Trump to drag the US out of NATO? The fuck went on last week for that to be on the horizon?)

[Petrasylvania]

Mike Pompeo: Donald Trump building "liberal world order"

Donald Trump is building a “new liberal order” under US leadership, based on the principle of putting national sovereignty before multilateralism for its own sake, his secretary of state has claimed.

In a speech in Brussels before a Nato ministers meeting, Mike Pompeo sought to frame Trump’s foreign policy decisions as a coherent doctrine to a European audience that is increasingly anxious about US withdrawal from a string of treaties and Trump’s antipathy towards the European Union.

He listed a series of current international institutions, including the EU, UN, World Bank and the International Monetary Fund, that he said were no longer serving their mission they were created.

He argued that Trump’s reassertion of national sovereignty through his “America First” policy would make those institutions function better. “In the finest traditions of our great democracy, we are rallying the noble nations of the world to build a new liberal order that prevents war and achieves greater prosperity for all,” Pompeo said at a speech at the German Marshall Fund thinktank. “We’re supporting institutions that we believe can be improved; institutions that work in American interests – and yours – in service of our shared values.”

The remarks were frequently punctuated with praise for Trump, who is referred to 13 times in the text. Pompeo portrayed his president as restoring an era of triumphal US leadership in the world, for the first time since the end of the cold war.

“This American leadership allowed us to enjoy the greatest human flourishing in modern history,” the secretary of state said. “We won the cold war. We won the peace. With no small measure of George HW Bush’s effort, we reunited Germany. This is the type of leadership that President Trump is boldly reasserting.

“After the cold war ended, we allowed this liberal order to begin to corrode. Multilateralism has too often become viewed as an end unto itself. The more treaties we sign, the safer we supposedly are. The more bureaucrats we have, the better the job gets done.”

The Trump administration has alarmed European governments with making a bonfire of treaties, walking out of the 2015 nuclear deal with Iran, withdrawing from talks with Europe on the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership, pulling out of the Paris climate agreement and the UN global compact on migration. At last week’s G20 summit, European officials pushed back against their US counterparts who were under instructions to eliminate references to multilateralism and a rules-based international order.

Trump has also declared he wants to abandon the intermediate-range nuclear forces treaty with Russia, because of violations by Moscow. European capitals are seeking to broker a solution that would salvage the treaty, which kept nuclear missiles out of Europe for more than 25 years.

They feared that Pompeo would come to this week’s Nato meeting with a formal notice of withdrawal that would start a six-month clock ticking for its dissolution, but formal withdrawal is now not expected until the new year, leaving a small window open for last-minute efforts to save the treaty through a joint Nato effort to confront Russia over its suspected violation: the development of a ground-launched cruise missile.

Pompeo’s speech received polite applause, but Julianne Smith, a senior foreign policy official during Barack Obama’s time at the White House, said it had shocked US allies across Europe.

“The first words that come to mind are tone deaf,” said Smith, now a senior fellow at the Bosch Academy in Berlin. “It’s as if they have no appreciation of how Europeans are trying to figure out how to cope with an administration that they see as abdicating American leadership.

“The speech just gives Europe a long to-do list – just do this, do that, with no vision to go with it. No one I talk to here believes this administration is committed to a rules-based order.”

So liberal
Much order
Wow

(Also, Euro diplomats were expecting Trump to drag the US out of NATO? The fuck went on last week for that to be on the horizon?)

The con game has reached peak bullshit.

[Duhon]

As wise old Cap'n Ahab said, "Hark ye, a little lower layer."

With Trump, you only know how deep the hole is when he stops digging.

[Petrasylvania]

As wise old Cap'n Ahab said, "Hark ye, a little lower layer."

With Trump, you only know how deep the hole is when he stops digging.

He was going on the theory that he digs enough and he'd reach Jyna.

[Duhon]

And one more thing: if treaties are dangerous and rivaling nationalisms should be on the agenda, how the fuck would there not be a World War III within a decade of that being realized?

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

We tried over 200 years of strict bilateralism between 1648 and the 1870's. Then, we tried another 40 years of minimal multilateralism. As we found out through over 150 years of limited multilateralism, countries will just try to fuck one another over constantly. They still do that, but there is also a lot more cooperation. A world without multilateralism is a tragedy of the commons.

[Cannot think of a name]

We tried over 200 years of strict bilateralism between 1648 and the 1870's. Then, we tried another 40 years of minimal multilateralism. As we found out through over 150 years of limited multilateralism, countries will just try to fuck one another over constantly. They still do that, but there is also a lot more cooperation. A world without multilateralism is a tragedy of the commons.

It's appealing only if you think you're fucking unbeatable at Hungry Hungry Hippos.

[Corrian]

E.P.A. Will Ease Path to New Coal Plants

The only good thing is the fact that I don't think making new coal plants is even popular or exactly optional or preferable right now. Despite Trump's rhetoric, the coal industry is still slowly dying.

[Myrensis]

I am hopeful that this will lead to a 75% reduction in defence spending. That would be grand.

It'll be real fucking grand when some Chinese fuck is stabbing you to death with a bayonet and millions of Americans lay dead, because that's exactly where this line of thinking leads to.

I don't think we should be making budgetary decisions based on the paranoid delusions of right-wing bunker dwellers.

Everyone scoffs at my idea for a 70 trillion dollar space laser, but you won't be laughing when the Bug Men of Alpha Centauri are dissecting your brain!

[Petrasylvania]

It'll be real fucking grand when some Chinese fuck is stabbing you to death with a bayonet and millions of Americans lay dead, because that's exactly where this line of thinking leads to.

I don't think we should be making budgetary decisions based on the paranoid delusions of right-wing bunker dwellers.

Everyone scoffs at my idea for a 70 trillion dollar space laser, but you won't be laughing when the Bug Men of Alpha Centauri are dissecting your brain!

Bunker dwellers that are for the most part wealthy enough to afford Vault Tec and crates of vacuum packed gourmet survival rations.

[Telconi]

I don't think we should be making budgetary decisions based on the paranoid delusions of right-wing bunker dwellers.

Everyone scoffs at my idea for a 70 trillion dollar space laser, but you won't be laughing when the Bug Men of Alpha Centauri are dissecting your brain!

Bunker dwellers that are for the most part wealthy enough to afford Vault Tec and crates of vacuum packed gourmet survival rations.

I don't think you understand how money works...

[Petrasylvania]

Bunker dwellers that are for the most part wealthy enough to afford Vault Tec and crates of vacuum packed gourmet survival rations.

I don't think you understand how money works...

The first three words are accurate.

[Telconi]

I don't think you understand how money works...

The first three words are accurate.

Why mine salt when Gauth just shovels it for you?

[Duhon]

We tried over 200 years of strict bilateralism between 1648 and the 1870's. Then, we tried another 40 years of minimal multilateralism. As we found out through over 150 years of limited multilateralism, countries will just try to fuck one another over constantly. They still do that, but there is also a lot more cooperation. A world without multilateralism is a tragedy of the commons.

A world where you don't need any pretext to invade any number of countries, kill any number of leaders, and convert the rest to statistics? I dunno, man, Europe at the end of two world wars was pretty damn prosperous, what with less people to worry about!

"Tragedy of the commons"? Pshhh! A world united in destroying itself is indeed a multilateral one! Say it with me -- WAR IS PEACE! PEACE IS ORDER! ORDER IS LIBERAL!