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Restructure the US Government

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Strength and Order
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Founded: May 13, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Strength and Order » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:46 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Strength and Order wrote:
An excellent way to bring about a new fascist order, thank you for your support.


Nah. The continent-wide militia force will stop that dead in its tracks. :^)


So it won't be anarchist then, just a military junta.

Freezic Vast wrote:I'd create a one party, imperial state, ban the GOP and the Dems and form an American/Roman imperial Senate style republic. We need a Pax Americana.


How painfully unoriginal.

New haven america wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:I'd restructure it into either an Islamic government or a Theodemocracy

No.


Seconded.
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Thermodolia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:46 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:I'd restructure it into either an Islamic government or a Theodemocracy

Fuck that
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Freezic Vast
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Ex-Nation

Postby Freezic Vast » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:47 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
... D.C. will be spared for those who wish to maintain old America. c:

Nah. Join me comrade in making glorious Stalinist United Socialist Republics of America! If don’t support to da gulag with you

So basically communism... no thanks.
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Torrocca
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Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:47 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
... D.C. will be spared for those who wish to maintain old America. c:

Nah. Join me comrade in making glorious Stalinist United Socialist Republics of America! If don’t support to da gulag with you


Ewwwww Stalinism >:c

Strength and Order wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Nah. The continent-wide militia force will stop that dead in its tracks. :^)


So it won't be anarchist then, just a military junta.


Nope, Anarchist militias are a thing for the purpose of self-defense of the society/communities. :^)
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They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
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Strength and Order
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Founded: May 13, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Strength and Order » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:48 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Strength and Order wrote:
Simple, really. All power would be invested into a single government organism comprised entirely of party members and headed by a strong central authority figure. Said individual would have the final say in all party decisions, obviously, and would be the primary driving force behind all actions undertaken by the state. Should any of his or her actions be deemed incompetent, ideologically impure, or treasonous there will be a vote of no confidence among party members. Should it succeed, they will be forced to step down or face arrest by the party's paramilitary wing. To prevent the creation of a 'cult of personality', all loyalty programs in the military and society will be directed toward ideology and not any specific person - with emphasis on ideological purity.


>How to create a Byzantine political court 101


I don't remember any Byzantine emperors being forced to abdicate by their own councils.
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New haven america
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby New haven america » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:48 pm

Freezic Vast wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Nah. Join me comrade in making glorious Stalinist United Socialist Republics of America! If don’t support to da gulag with you

So basically communism... no thanks.

To the gulag with you.
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Thermodolia
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Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:48 pm

Senkaku wrote:So an elected Chief Justice who has to have passed the bar and some made-up new exam on their "knowledge of the Constitution", a VP who acts more like a PM and who controls some elements of the executive but not others, two-term limits on the House, and the Speaker gets renamed and can "recall both houses" (do you mean like dissolve them and call snap elections?)...

Seems like a bona fide NS summer shitshow of an idea to me lol :p

Sounds like someone just figured out that Semi-Presidential system is a thing
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>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
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Senkaku
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Founded: Sep 01, 2012
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Senkaku » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:49 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Strength and Order wrote:
Simple, really. All power would be invested into a single government organism comprised entirely of party members and headed by a strong central authority figure. Said individual would have the final say in all party decisions, obviously, and would be the primary driving force behind all actions undertaken by the state. Should any of his or her actions be deemed incompetent, ideologically impure, or treasonous there will be a vote of no confidence among party members. Should it succeed, they will be forced to step down or face arrest by the party's paramilitary wing. To prevent the creation of a 'cult of personality', all loyalty programs in the military and society will be directed toward ideology and not any specific person - with emphasis on ideological purity.


>How to create a Byzantine political court 101

Remember: if it wouldn't make a good soap opera, it's not worth making into a real government
Biden-Santos Thought cadre

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Thermodolia
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Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:50 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Nah. Join me comrade in making glorious Stalinist United Socialist Republics of America! If don’t support to da gulag with you


Ewwwww Stalinism >:c


It’s gulag time!
Male, Jewish, lives somewhere in AZ, Disabled US Military Veteran, Oorah!, I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
Click for Da Funies

RIP Dya

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Torrocca
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Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:50 pm

Strength and Order wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
>How to create a Byzantine political court 101


I don't remember any Byzantine emperors being forced to abdicate by their own councils.


A court with less assassinations, of course. Until, obviously, your el macho strongman there garners enough under-the-table support from the more feeble members of the party as well as a personal cult anyways because that's just gonna happen no matter what, and then he has all those lacking in faith and loyalty to him systematically executed and names himself God Emperor/Fuhrer for life/Il Duce of this new Fascist state.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
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Strength and Order
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Founded: May 13, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Strength and Order » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:51 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Nah. Join me comrade in making glorious Stalinist United Socialist Republics of America! If don’t support to da gulag with you


Ewwwww Stalinism >:c

Strength and Order wrote:
So it won't be anarchist then, just a military junta.


Nope, Anarchist militias are a thing for the purpose of self-defense of the society/communities. :^)


So your idea of preserving a stateless society is to create an oligarchy.

Interesting.
Are YOU an enemy of HYDRA?
Pro & Anti
This is an ALTERNATE UNIVERSE HYDRA; It was not the Nazi science division nor does it worship Hive, who does not exist in this universe. Please read the factbooks before making ignorant comments chocking it down to "Nazi Cultists".


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El-Amin Caliphate
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Founded: Apr 05, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:51 pm

Strength and Order wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Ewwwww Stalinism >:c



Nope, Anarchist militias are a thing for the purpose of self-defense of the society/communities. :^)


So your idea of preserving a stateless society is to create an oligarchy.

Interesting.

More like a society run by a mob.
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Torrocca
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Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:52 pm

Strength and Order wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Ewwwww Stalinism >:c



Nope, Anarchist militias are a thing for the purpose of self-defense of the society/communities. :^)


So your idea of preserving a stateless society is to create an oligarchy.

Interesting.


wtf lmao
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Thermodolia
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Posts: 78485
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:52 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Strength and Order wrote:
I don't remember any Byzantine emperors being forced to abdicate by their own councils.


A court with less assassinations, of course. Until, obviously, your el macho strongman there garners enough under-the-table support from the more feeble members of the party as well as a personal cult anyways because that's just gonna happen no matter what, and then he has all those lacking in faith and loyalty to him systematically executed and names himself God Emperor/Fuhrer for life/Il Duce of this new Fascist state.

This is why we need a central committee with a chairman instead
Male, Jewish, lives somewhere in AZ, Disabled US Military Veteran, Oorah!, I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
Click for Da Funies

RIP Dya

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Strength and Order
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Posts: 526
Founded: May 13, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Strength and Order » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:53 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Strength and Order wrote:
I don't remember any Byzantine emperors being forced to abdicate by their own councils.


A court with less assassinations, of course. Until, obviously, your el macho strongman there garners enough under-the-table support from the more feeble members of the party as well as a personal cult anyways because that's just gonna happen no matter what, and then he has all those lacking in faith and loyalty to him systematically executed and names himself God Emperor/Fuhrer for life/Il Duce of this new Fascist state.


I like how you avoided the flaw I pointed out in your comparison by attempted redirection.

Remind me, who removed Mussolini from power?
Are YOU an enemy of HYDRA?
Pro & Anti
This is an ALTERNATE UNIVERSE HYDRA; It was not the Nazi science division nor does it worship Hive, who does not exist in this universe. Please read the factbooks before making ignorant comments chocking it down to "Nazi Cultists".


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Senkaku
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Founded: Sep 01, 2012
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Senkaku » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:53 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
Senkaku wrote:So an elected Chief Justice who has to have passed the bar and some made-up new exam on their "knowledge of the Constitution", a VP who acts more like a PM and who controls some elements of the executive but not others, two-term limits on the House, and the Speaker gets renamed and can "recall both houses" (do you mean like dissolve them and call snap elections?)...

Seems like a bona fide NS summer shitshow of an idea to me lol :p

Sounds like someone just figured out that Semi-Presidential system is a thing

Mhm seems dumb 0/10 would not try (visionary champions of this system include Russia, Burkina Faso, and Mozambique :p )

Plus, the relationship between the President and VP seems unclear, and all the shit w the Chief Justice and the Speaker and Congress seem dumb, so I think it's settled
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Torrocca
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Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:53 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
Strength and Order wrote:
So your idea of preserving a stateless society is to create an oligarchy.

Interesting.

More like a society run by a mob.


My friendo, this is misrepresentative of Anarchism. It's more like democracy taken to its absolute extreme, with totally voluntary participation in such a system and a respect toward Individual Anarchism (so long as such does no harm to others or a community).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Senkaku
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Founded: Sep 01, 2012
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Senkaku » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:54 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
A court with less assassinations, of course. Until, obviously, your el macho strongman there garners enough under-the-table support from the more feeble members of the party as well as a personal cult anyways because that's just gonna happen no matter what, and then he has all those lacking in faith and loyalty to him systematically executed and names himself God Emperor/Fuhrer for life/Il Duce of this new Fascist state.

This is why we need a central committee with a chairman instead

Every day we stray further from God closer to Beijing :(
Biden-Santos Thought cadre

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El-Amin Caliphate
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Founded: Apr 05, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:55 pm

Torrocca wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:More like a society run by a mob.


My friendo, this is misrepresentative of Anarchism. It's more like democracy taken to its absolute extreme, with totally voluntary participation in such a system and a respect toward Individual Anarchism (so long as such does no harm to others or a community).

Well it seems to me that this anarchist militia is the only 'government' (using this word veeeeeeeery loosely) with relatively some 'power' (using this word veeeeeeeery loosely).
Kubumba Tribe's sister nation. NOT A PUPPET! >w< In fact, this one came 1st.
Proud Full Member of the Council of Islamic Cooperation!^u^
I'm a (Pan) Islamist ;)
CLICK THIS
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people

Democracy and Freedom Index
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Thermodolia
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Posts: 78485
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:56 pm

Senkaku wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:This is why we need a central committee with a chairman instead

Every day we stray further from God closer to Beijing :(

No comrade this is glorious Stalinism not that anti-party revisionist Maoism.
Male, Jewish, lives somewhere in AZ, Disabled US Military Veteran, Oorah!, I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
Click for Da Funies

RIP Dya

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Northwest Slobovia
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Founded: Sep 16, 2006
Anarchy

Postby Northwest Slobovia » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:57 pm

Tribes Republic wrote:to start off I will post how I would do it.
[...various scribblings on a hodgepodge of governmental powers, duties, and responsibilities...]

I've seen worse suggestions before, but not many.
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Senkaku
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Founded: Sep 01, 2012
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Senkaku » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:57 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
Senkaku wrote:Every day we stray further from God closer to Beijing :(

No comrade this is glorious Stalinism not that anti-party revisionist Maoism.

this but ironically
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Torrocca
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Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:57 pm

Strength and Order wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
A court with less assassinations, of course. Until, obviously, your el macho strongman there garners enough under-the-table support from the more feeble members of the party as well as a personal cult anyways because that's just gonna happen no matter what, and then he has all those lacking in faith and loyalty to him systematically executed and names himself God Emperor/Fuhrer for life/Il Duce of this new Fascist state.


I like how you avoided the flaw I pointed out in your comparison by attempted redirection.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heraklonas

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Byzantine_emperors

Quite a few deposed by the Senate, assassinated by their court, etc. :^)

Remind me, who removed Mussolini from power?


Anarchists removed him from the power of his own life in 1945, but that's beside the point.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27792
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:58 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
My friendo, this is misrepresentative of Anarchism. It's more like democracy taken to its absolute extreme, with totally voluntary participation in such a system and a respect toward Individual Anarchism (so long as such does no harm to others or a community).

Well it seems to me that this anarchist militia is the only 'government' (using this word veeeeeeeery loosely) with relatively some 'power' (using this word veeeeeeeery loosely).


Theoretically, everyone in the community is a member of the militia in some regard, either as a fighter or someone in a support role, so technically you're right there. But that doesn't paint the whole picture.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

User avatar
Strength and Order
Diplomat
 
Posts: 526
Founded: May 13, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Strength and Order » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:58 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
Strength and Order wrote:
So your idea of preserving a stateless society is to create an oligarchy.

Interesting.

More like a society run by a mob.


An oligarchy is 'rule by few', so that would be mob rule, yes.

Torrocca wrote:
Strength and Order wrote:
So your idea of preserving a stateless society is to create an oligarchy.

Interesting.


wtf lmao


Well, in your own words you'd like to create a militia to defend this 'anarchist state', correct? Obviously they would have to have access to a large quantity of weapons and equipment in order to stand up against an actual, organized military. Then there's the inherent problem of hierarchy and chain-of-command, which is necessary for any armed group to be able to operate efficiently. I mean, even militia's have leaders. All it takes is a drought, famine, natural disaster, foreign invasion, or some other tragedy in order for this pseudo-military to take over and restore the very law and order you abolished.
Are YOU an enemy of HYDRA?
Pro & Anti
This is an ALTERNATE UNIVERSE HYDRA; It was not the Nazi science division nor does it worship Hive, who does not exist in this universe. Please read the factbooks before making ignorant comments chocking it down to "Nazi Cultists".


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