Democratic Socialism in the U.S and How to Pay for It?

[Petrolheadia]

To make sure people can be paid values of their labour while not starving.

Also, TIL college loans and wealthier family members do not exist.

College takes time. Loans must be paid back.

No shit.

Yeah, like the industrial revolutions fucked workers over, didn't they?

Let's not pretend it didn't.

That's why the average American worker lives worse than in 1850... oh no, he doesn't.

[Conserative Morality]

Trade school.

The ONLY difference between trade schools and colleges is the subjects taught.

Is this a joke?

Are you like doing some sort of deep-cover Colbert satire?

Pole here, and I never said teaching was a good idea.

What does that have to do with anything I said?

You just want to give people money because "muh living standards", ignoring the realities of many job markets and the point of a minimum wage.

The entire point of a minimum wage is to ensure a basic level of living standards for the health of society and the polity.

JFC

[Conserative Morality]

No shit.

Your responses seem to suggest that you don't find that as obvious as you claim here.

[Petrolheadia]

8 Years (Sometimes less) or a lifetime at McDonald's?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Going to college, or starving on the streets?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Jesus Christ. You can't actually think that going to college is just free in terms of intrusion on time, right? You do realize that people have to work and eat in the meantime of that 'eight years', right?

You do realise there are loans, scholarships and aid from family and friends?

[Tobleste]

8 Years (Sometimes less) or a lifetime at McDonald's?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Going to college, or starving on the streets?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Jesus Christ. You can't actually think that going to college is just free in terms of intrusion on time, right? You do realize that people have to work and eat in the meantime of that 'eight years', right?

Fucking right? You do realize that? I don't have to explain that? Because right now it seems an awful lot like I'd have to explain that to you, considering your current argument, and that would be terribly embarrassing for you to have to cop to.

I think his impression that college is free shows how open he would be to the idea.

[Thanatttynia]

Let's not pretend it didn't.

That's why the average American worker lives worse than in 1850... oh no, he doesn't.

Yes, the only historical event to have happened in the last 200 years was the Industrial Revolution.

[Torrocca]

College takes time. Loans must be paid back.

No shit.

Let's not pretend it didn't.

That's why the average American worker lives worse than in 1850... oh no, he doesn't.

"The average American worker lives better than they did in 1850, so obviously no one got fucked over!" lol

The average worker lives better nowadays because of technological progress, but that doesn't change the fucking fact that the industrial revolution aversely affected workers across the world for quite some time. I guess those labor disputes just happened in a fucking vacuum, though, according to your vision of the industrial revolution.

[Petrolheadia]

Trade school.

The ONLY difference between trade schools and colleges is the subjects taught.

Is this a joke?

Depends on the job.

Many take 2 years, and training to be a trucker is only about 7 weeks in the US.

You just want to give people money because "muh living standards", ignoring the realities of many job markets and the point of a minimum wage.

The entire point of a minimum wage is to ensure a basic level of living standards for the health of society and the polity.

JFC

Note the word "basic".

[Petrolheadia]

No shit.

That's why the average American worker lives worse than in 1850... oh no, he doesn't.

"The average American worker lives better than they did in 1850, so obviously no one got fucked over!" lol

The average worker lives better nowadays because of technological progress, but that doesn't change the fucking fact that the industrial revolution aversely affected workers across the world for quite some time. I guess those labor disputes just happened in a fucking vacuum, though, according to your vision of the industrial revolution.

And this means the system has an ability to balance itself.

[Torrocca]

"The average American worker lives better than they did in 1850, so obviously no one got fucked over!" lol

The average worker lives better nowadays because of technological progress, but that doesn't change the fucking fact that the industrial revolution aversely affected workers across the world for quite some time. I guess those labor disputes just happened in a fucking vacuum, though, according to your vision of the industrial revolution.

And this means the system has an ability to balance itself.

>people get murdered after protesting/striking for basic working rights to be guaranteed
>"wow gee look at that the system's really working to balance itself out"

lol

[Petrolheadia]

And this means the system has an ability to balance itself.

>people get murdered after protesting/striking for basic working rights to be guaranteed
>"wow gee look at that the system's really working to balance itself out"

lol

And what is better? Living like 18th century peasants?

[Torrocca]

>people get murdered after protesting/striking for basic working rights to be guaranteed
>"wow gee look at that the system's really working to balance itself out"

lol

And what is better? Living like 18th century peasants?

What's better is not having a system where fatcat industrialists go about murdering people on the whim because they want basic working rights.

[Firaxin]

>people get murdered after protesting/striking for basic working rights to be guaranteed
>"wow gee look at that the system's really working to balance itself out"

lol

And what is better? Living like 18th century peasants?

You're implying we'd still be in the 18th century if the workers got their rights, which is false. Sure we'll progress slower but we'll still progress no matter what.

[Petrolheadia]

And what is better? Living like 18th century peasants?

What's better is not having a system where fatcat industrialists go about murdering people on the whim because they want basic working rights.

I'm guessing you mean killing the industrialists.

Thanks, but no thanks.

[Conserative Morality]

You do realise there are loans, scholarships and aid from family and friends?

Jesus Christ. You can't actually think that going to college is just free in terms of intrusion on time, right? You do realize that people have to work and eat in the meantime of that 'eight years', right?

You can't actually think that going to college is just free in terms of intrusion on time, right?

free in terms of intrusion on time

intrusion on time

Things that take time and have generally inflexible schedules: Jobs

Things that take time and have generally inflexible schedules: College

[Petrolheadia]

And what is better? Living like 18th century peasants?

You're implying we'd still be in the 18th century if the workers got their rights, which is false. Sure we'll progress slower but we'll still progress no matter what.

And how do you imagine that, the industrialists just having a moment of spending?

[Petrolheadia]

You do realise there are loans, scholarships and aid from family and friends?

Jesus Christ. You can't actually think that going to college is just free in terms of intrusion on time, right? You do realize that people have to work and eat in the meantime of that 'eight years', right?

You can't actually think that going to college is just free in terms of intrusion on time, right?

free in terms of intrusion on time

intrusion on time

Things that take time and have generally inflexible schedules: Jobs

Things that take time and have generally inflexible schedules: College

After-hours training programs, living on borrowed money, etc.

[Great Minarchistan]

College takes time.

The awful struggle of four years that trickles down into better economic opportunities for the remaining of your active life, I can feel it

Loans must be paid back.

I've ranted on the current affordability of student loans on a thread long ago, but to sum it up: with an average debt of 30k when graduating, at the usual real interest of 4% p.a., and with the college major median aftertax salary standing at 35k for the first ten years of career, you can direct 15% of your earnings towards debt repayment and wipe your debt sheet within six years and half.

And not everyone has wealthy family members. Jesus Christ, are you really that sheltered?

I base myself off real life numbers, not the anecdotal exception of a Harvard student you've heard of that majored on gender studies and currently works at walmart with a 150k outstanding debt :^)

[Torrocca]

What's better is not having a system where fatcat industrialists go about murdering people on the whim because they want basic working rights.

I'm guessing you mean killing the industrialists.

Thanks, but no thanks.

>"people shouldn't have been killed for working rights"
>"oH sO yOu WaNt To KiLl AlL iNdUsTrIaLiStS iS tHaT rIgHt?!?!?!"

lmao

[Petrolheadia]

I'm guessing you mean killing the industrialists.

Thanks, but no thanks.

>"people shouldn't have been killed for working rights"
>"oH sO yOu WaNt To KiLl AlL iNdUsTrIaLiStS iS tHaT rIgHt?!?!?!"

lmao

Truth hurts.

[Torrocca]

>"people shouldn't have been killed for working rights"
>"oH sO yOu WaNt To KiLl AlL iNdUsTrIaLiStS iS tHaT rIgHt?!?!?!"

lmao

Truth hurts.

Strawmen hurt even worse when they're lit on fire. :^)

[Ifreann]

You do realise there are loans, scholarships and aid from family and friends?

Jesus Christ. You can't actually think that going to college is just free in terms of intrusion on time, right? You do realize that people have to work and eat in the meantime of that 'eight years', right?

You can't actually think that going to college is just free in terms of intrusion on time, right?

free in terms of intrusion on time

intrusion on time

Things that take time and have generally inflexible schedules: Jobs

Things that take time and have generally inflexible schedules: College

Just go to the bank and get a loan of 12 extra hours in the day. Maybe 16.

[Great Minarchistan]

None of that has anything to do with productivity or the point I was discussing.

High quality discourse. I'm not even going to bother with you.

[unfunny, stem-tier meme ahead]: "I felt a strange disturbance in the Economy, as if thousands of workers increased their educational attainment and aggregated more know-how, becoming more productive"

[Firaxin]

You're implying we'd still be in the 18th century if the workers got their rights, which is false. Sure we'll progress slower but we'll still progress no matter what.

And how do you imagine that, the industrialists just having a moment of spending?

Yeah, they would still be making a profit even with the extra expenses.

[Petrolheadia]

Things that take time and have generally inflexible schedules: Jobs

Things that take time and have generally inflexible schedules: College

Just go to the bank and get a loan of 12 extra hours in the day. Maybe 16.

Sometimes, you don't need 12 spare hours. Nor 16.