Democratic Socialism in the U.S and How to Pay for It?

[Conserative Morality]

Be a more productive worker, improve your traits,

Some high quality meaningless buzzwords here that actually mean nothing within the context of the modern job market which pays individuals based primarily on what they can get away in the local economy with rather than meaningful recompensation for value added because from a purely market oriented perspective WHY WOULD THEY DO ANYTHING ELSE?

Seriously, why would you pay your workers a reasonable wage if you can get away with paying them less? It makes no business sense. This free market fairy bullshit is just a way for weak people who cannot fully embrace the implications of a free market to piddle around with humanitarian ideals whilst still pretending that the market orients towards efficiency when in reality how they propose the market works for workers directly and necessarily contradicts that.

get a higher educational attainment etc.

Oh, boy, I can tell you all sorts of problems with that.

Minimum wage jobs are suited for low-productivity workers, hiking it to $15 or whatever the level you desire it to go to won't magically increase your human capital = increased job stress on the market

Who said it would increase human capital?

Although, tbf, it likely would be allowing people greater latitude in freedom of movement to adjust labor imbalances in local markets and increased versaility in terms of job searching, retraining, and educational attainment.

But my primary concern in advocating for a higher minimum wage is, you know, basic fucking living standards.

[Ifreann]

You're welcome to try and oppress the people with ocean liner pistons for arms.

---

Your urban brethren would not benefit from having their rent covered?

America is a strange place.

Cost of living is insanely high in the US

Okay.

[Conserative Morality]

Why do you keep assuming I’m a capitalist republican and continue to strawman shit?

Where did I say you were a capitalist republican?

The Calvinist Work Ethic myth is deeply embedded in American culture as a whole.

[Kramanica]

I was going to say something sarcastic but then I remembered I favor workers seizing control over the means of production so that a minimum wage is no longer necessary.

Too left wing, plz go

Could someone photoshop McCarthy's face onto this plz. I am poor and my computer is shit.

[Petrolheadia]

I am under no illusions that living with minimum wage is easy or pleasant. Only that it's possible, and for many of us, an inescapable reality.

That's the point.

[Tobleste]

On another thread I theorized that republican types hate her because she's female, young, Hispanic and left wing meaning she's 4 of the 5 groups they despise. Their vitriolic insults whenever she gets mentioned backs me up imo.

Most republicans constantly shit on sanders, and he's (according to your list) solely as despised as a typical young centrist woman that certainly gets not that much of hate

He does not get the same level of vitriol as they do. Pelosi is half the republican midterm campaign strategy and Clinton was half of their campaign in 2016. Cortez seems to be the next to fill that role for them.

[Conserative Morality]

I am under no illusions that living with minimum wage is easy or pleasant. Only that it's possible, and for many of us, an inescapable reality.

That's the point.

To make a permanent underclass of disgruntled workers in poor health with likely poor educational standards, unable to go on to colleges or trade schools, thus ensuring a steady supply of unskilled labor that companies can use and discard freely and fob the cost of their suffering onto the government?

[Petrolheadia]

Be a more productive worker, improve your traits,

Some high quality meaningless buzzwords here that actually mean nothing within the context of the modern job market which pays individuals based primarily on what they can get away in the local economy with rather than meaningful recompensation for value added because from a purely market oriented perspective WHY WOULD THEY DO ANYTHING ELSE?

What they can get away wih uneducated workers.

Minimum wage is a key, education is a lockpick.

Seriously, why would you pay your workers a reasonable wage if you can get away with paying them less?

I don't know, but employees of big supermarket chains round these parts get more than beginner teachers, so I guess it works.

get a higher educational attainment etc.

Oh, boy, I can tell you all sorts of problems with that.

Like?

But my primary concern in advocating for a higher minimum wage is, you know, basic fucking living standards.

Money for nothing?

I'm more into free chicks.

[Kramanica]

Most republicans constantly shit on sanders, and he's (according to your list) solely as despised as a typical young centrist woman that certainly gets not that much of hate

He does not get the same level of vitriol as they do. Pelosi is half the republican midterm campaign strategy and Clinton was half of their campaign in 2016. Cortez seems to be the next to fill that role for them.

>tfw leading Democrats receive most of the hate

Gee, what are the fucking odds?

[Petrolheadia]

That's the point.

To make a permanent underclass of disgruntled workers in poor health with likely poor educational standards, unable to go on to colleges or trade schools, thus ensuring a steady supply of unskilled labor that companies can use and discard freely and fob the cost of their suffering onto the government?

To make sure people can be paid values of their labour while not starving.

Also, TIL college loans and wealthier family members do not exist.

[Great Minarchistan]

Some high quality meaningless buzzwords here that actually mean nothing within the context of the modern job market which pays individuals based primarily on what they can get away in the local economy with rather than meaningful recompensation for value added because from a purely market oriented perspective WHY WOULD THEY DO ANYTHING ELSE?

TIL that college grads are randomly chosen to go to a mcdonalds part-time job while hs dropouts become high-paid managers within five years of career through a lottery, probably why college grad median salary is higher than a HS-only median worker consistently during a whole career. Wait, uhhh

Seriously, why would you pay your workers a reasonable wage if you can get away with paying them less? It makes no business sense.

Because for a magic reason the excess profit returns back to the pocket of workers via methods such as lowered output prices or improved investment return.

This free market fairy bullshit is just a way for weak people who cannot fully embrace the implications of a free market to piddle around with humanitarian ideals whilst still pretending that the market orients towards efficiency when in reality how they propose the market works for workers directly and necessarily contradicts that.

Instead of resorting to loaded words and adhoms perhaps you should check the actual results that come out of market, economic principles aren't self-evident or right by their own words.

Oh, boy, I can tell you all sorts of problems with that.

Do it

Who said it would increase human capital?

Nobody, and it wont -> my point exactly.

Although, tbf, it likely would be allowing people greater latitude in freedom of movement to adjust labor imbalances in local markets and increased versaility in terms of job searching, retraining, and educational attainment.

But my primary concern in advocating for a higher minimum wage is, you know, basic fucking living standards.

For some reason there's a thing called "firing workers whose productivity isn't high enough for their fresh new wages" or "jacking up prices to the consumer to compensate for at least part of the increased costs"

[Torrocca]

I am Pro-worker. I’m for keeping their jobs and making sure that they are put into the homeless shelter. If we have to be somewhat inefficient because of that than so be it. I’m not going to chase efficiency for efficiencies sake.

>be pro-worker, wants to keep people's jobs
>ignores the link between worker compensation and productivity, and the link between investment and job creation
>doesn't want more efficiency
uhhhh recheck whatever you're basing your ideology off, amigo

Nah, he's right. You want automation without any solution to the obvious issue of, "what happens when the workers lose their jobs?" Which, frankly, is an utterly shit idea and simply just efficiency for the sake of efficiency without any concern for the underlying consequences.

You talk a lot of feel-good for ideas that'd really just fuck over the majority of people.

[Conserative Morality]

What they can get away wih uneducated workers.

Minimum wage is a key, education is a lockpick.

That's real convenient for people without families, who live near colleges and universities, who work part-time and live with their parents to say.

What about everyone else? People who don't have the money to go to college for four years (and let's not pretend that an associate's is actually worth anything in the vast majority of scenarios)? People who don't have the time to drive an hour to the nearest college every week day and then wait an hour between each class, for several classes, at inconvenient times?

I don't know, but employees of big supermarket chains round these parts get more than beginner teachers, so I guess it works.

"Press X to doubt"

In most places 'big supermarket chains' pay people so little they have to rely on government assistance to survive, while new teachers typically make above minimum wage and often have their college loans paid for if they agree to spend a certain number of years as a teacher.

Like?

See above.

Money for nothing?

I'm more into free chicks.

"Being paid more for working is money for nothing"

You know, it would be slightly less repuslive if you were honest and just said "Fuck the poor and everyone who isn't me."

[Petrolheadia]

>be pro-worker, wants to keep people's jobs
>ignores the link between worker compensation and productivity, and the link between investment and job creation
>doesn't want more efficiency
uhhhh recheck whatever you're basing your ideology off, amigo

Nah, he's right. You want automation without any solution to the obvious issue of, "what happens when the workers lose their jobs?" Which, frankly, is an utterly shit idea and simply just efficiency for the sake of efficiency without any concern for the underlying consequences.

You talk a lot of feel-good for ideas that'd really just fuck over the majority of people.

Yeah, like the industrial revolutions fucked workers over, didn't they?

[Conserative Morality]

To make sure people can be paid values of their labour while not starving.

Also, TIL college loans and wealthier family members do not exist.

College takes time. Loans must be paid back. And not everyone has wealthy family members. Jesus Christ, are you really that sheltered?

[Hammer Britannia]

You talk a lot of feel-good for ideas that'd really just fuck over the majority of people.

Humanity is not a herd, it's a pack.

If you can't become top dog, that's on you.

/s

[Great Minarchistan]

Nah, he's right. You want automation without any solution to the obvious issue of, "what happens when the workers lose their jobs?" Which, frankly, is an utterly shit idea and simply just efficiency for the sake of efficiency without any concern for the underlying consequences.

Can't formulate a solution to something that doesn't exist, it's the same as of wondering what should someone do in case dark matter becomes LSD and then we're pooled by a whole universe of drugs

You talk a lot of feel-good for ideas that'd really just fuck over the majority of people.

Most of what I say here is what actually happens rather than what would happen under my wet dream, so would you rather stepping down your ego?

[Conserative Morality]

TIL that college grads are randomly chosen to go to a mcdonalds part-time job while hs dropouts become high-paid managers within five years of career through a lottery, probably why college grad median salary is higher than a HS-only median worker consistently during a whole career. Wait, uhhh

None of that has anything to do with productivity or the point I was discussing.

High quality discourse. I'm not even going to bother with you.

[Hammer Britannia]

To make sure people can be paid values of their labour while not starving.

Also, TIL college loans and wealthier family members do not exist.

College takes time. Loans must be paid back. And not everyone has wealthy family members. Jesus Christ, are you really that sheltered?

8 Years (Sometimes less) or a lifetime at McDonald's?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Torrocca]

You talk a lot of feel-good for ideas that'd really just fuck over the majority of people.

Humanity is not a herd, it's a pack.

If you can't become top dog, that's on you.

Hot take, did you learn that from the misunderstanding of how wolf-packs work based on a fluked study?

Nah, he's right. You want automation without any solution to the obvious issue of, "what happens when the workers lose their jobs?" Which, frankly, is an utterly shit idea and simply just efficiency for the sake of efficiency without any concern for the underlying consequences.

You talk a lot of feel-good for ideas that'd really just fuck over the majority of people.

Yeah, like the industrial revolutions fucked workers over, didn't they?

Let's not pretend it didn't.

[Hammer Britannia]

Hot take, did you learn that from the misunderstanding of how wolf-packs work based on a fluked study?

I forgot to add the /s

[Petrolheadia]

What they can get away wih uneducated workers.

Minimum wage is a key, education is a lockpick.

That's real convenient for people without families, who live near colleges and universities, who work part-time and live with their parents to say.

What about everyone else? People who don't have the money to go to college for four years (and let's not pretend that an associate's is actually worth anything in the vast majority of scenarios)?

Trade school.
People who don't have the time to drive an hour to the nearest college every week day and then wait an hour between each class, for several classes, at inconvenient times?

I don't know, but employees of big supermarket chains round these parts get more than beginner teachers, so I guess it works.

"Press X to doubt"

In most places 'big supermarket chains' pay people so little they have to rely on government assistance to survive, while new teachers typically make above minimum wage and often have their college loans paid for if they agree to spend a certain number of years as a teacher.

Pole here, and I never said teaching was a good idea.

Money for nothing?

I'm more into free chicks.

"Being paid more for working is money for nothing"

You know, it would be slightly less repuslive if you were honest and just said "Fuck the poor and everyone who isn't me."

You just want to give people money because "muh living standards", ignoring the realities of many job markets and the point of a minimum wage.

[Conserative Morality]

8 Years (Sometimes less) or a lifetime at McDonald's?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Going to college, or starving on the streets?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Jesus Christ. You can't actually think that going to college is just free in terms of intrusion on time, right? You do realize that people have to work and eat in the meantime of that 'eight years', right?

Fucking right? You do realize that? I don't have to explain that? Because right now it seems an awful lot like I'd have to explain that to you, considering your current argument, and that would be terribly embarrassing for you to have to cop to.

[Torrocca]

Nah, he's right. You want automation without any solution to the obvious issue of, "what happens when the workers lose their jobs?" Which, frankly, is an utterly shit idea and simply just efficiency for the sake of efficiency without any concern for the underlying consequences.

Can't formulate a solution to something that doesn't exist, it's the same as of wondering what should someone do in case dark matter becomes LSD and then we're pooled by a whole universe of drugs

"Th-Things won't happen because I say they won't! Huzzah, free markets win again! Get BTFO'd by FACTS and LOGIC, commie!"

You talk a lot of feel-good for ideas that'd really just fuck over the majority of people.

Most of what I say here is what actually happens rather than what would happen under my wet dream

Until, of course, you get to talking about things like, "muh increased efficiency without a solution to the fucking over of the common laborer," or whatever else you find ideal for your """Libertarian""" utopia.

[Torrocca]

Hot take, did you learn that from the misunderstanding of how wolf-packs work based on a fluked study?

I forgot to add the /s

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