Democratic Socialism in the U.S and How to Pay for It?

[Ifreann]

No, you would be superhuman.

No, you'd be an abomination.

Suffer not the machine to live

You're welcome to try and oppress the people with ocean liner pistons for arms.

---

tf do you live? Median rent in the US is $1,000/month.

Literally any city larger than 100,000 people is more than that lol. Studio apartments in Tacoma come in at about 1,100 and if you're in Seattle it can be anywhere from 1,300-2,900 for a small apartment . Yeah for people like me out in the boonies an extra 15K per year would be nice but for our urban brethren it's nothing.

Your urban brethren would not benefit from having their rent covered?

America is a strange place.

[Conserative Morality]

Damnit, can't math

But even then, there's gas,

Most of which would, under ordinary circumstances, go towards daily transit to-and-from work. If someone's working, that's additional income. Furthermore, many in urban areas, which jack up the median and average rent numbers, don't own cars.

taxes,

>> taxing a UBI

.................

medical bills, insurance,

Wouldn't be a problem in a civilized society.

electricity, water, and a whole bunch of other shit.

Electricity and water are often included in rent, especially in lower-end areas.

But, nah, let's just ignore this so we can imagine the perfect utopia of "Taxtherichistan"

Hurr hurr

[Ifreann]

3k. Median food costs per person in the US are $1650/year.

Damnit, can't math

But even then, there's gas, taxes, medical bills, insurance, electricity, water, and a whole bunch of other shit.

But, nah, let's just ignore this so we can imagine the perfect utopia of "Taxtherichistan"

Eat the rich.

[Conserative Morality]

Your urban brethren would not benefit from having their rent covered?

America is a strange place.

It would make us hurt very much to have an expense taken from us. Without stress and suffering, how is a person to contribute to the smug satisfaction of our betters?

[Petrolheadia]

We could just take out a little bit of the Military's $600+ billion budget and put it into social systems and programs.

Even if we take $100 billion from them, we'd still be the highest spender bar none.

With such numbers, it's like saying "if we cancelled cable, we could afford a Maserati".

[Washington Resistance Army]

Literally any city larger than 100,000 people is more than that lol. Studio apartments in Tacoma come in at about 1,100 and if you're in Seattle it can be anywhere from 1,300-2,900 for a small apartment . Yeah for people like me out in the boonies an extra 15K per year would be nice but for our urban brethren it's nothing.

1,100 is median rent in Tacoma in general, not for studio apartments. 600$ is not an uncommon lower-end price in Tacoma. But a nice try at manipulating numbers! I am sure this will help your cause very much.

The absolute lowest end I can find or have heard of in Tacoma is near $800 nowadays because property values and all that fun stuff has been rising across the board there. And that's one of the cheaper cities to live in, any of the bigger ones would need a lot higher UBI to be worth it.

[Conserative Morality]

The absolute lowest end I can find or have heard of in Tacoma is near $800 nowadays because property values and all that fun stuff has been rising across the board there. And that's one of the cheaper cities to live in, any of the bigger ones would need a lot higher UBI to be worth it.

Average studio apartment in Tacoma is ~780$. Tacoma is distinctly above average in living expenses, although Washington as a whole is also above average. A quick look online finds Tacoma apartments as low as 500$.

0/10 see me after class.

[Washington Resistance Army]

The absolute lowest end I can find or have heard of in Tacoma is near $800 nowadays because property values and all that fun stuff has been rising across the board there. And that's one of the cheaper cities to live in, any of the bigger ones would need a lot higher UBI to be worth it.

Average studio apartment in Tacoma is ~780$. Tacoma is distinctly above average in living expenses, although Washington as a whole is also above average. A quick look online finds Tacoma apartments as low as 500$.

0/10 see me after class.

I legit spent 10+ minutes looking at prices and found nothing below $775 (most were nearing 1,100 actually) except one place in Lakewood and nobody wants to live there lol*. Guess we were just looking at different sites or something.

*source: lived in Lakewood for a while

[Conserative Morality]

I legit spent 10+ minutes looking at prices and found nothing below $775 (most were nearing 1,100 actually) except one place in Lakewood and nobody wants to live there lol*. Guess we were just looking at different sites or something.

*source: lived in Lakewood for a while

I spent two minutes and found a number under 700$ and at least one under 500$.

In the vast majority of cities finding a place where the rent doesn't breach four digits is far from impossible. People *do* live on minimum wage jobs, you know.

[Washington Resistance Army]

People *do* live on minimum wage jobs, you know.

Then why do need to increase the minimum wage? Checkmate progressives

[Great Minarchistan]

Unemployment and underemployment are great!! Said no one ever, except apparently the resident futurists and right libertarians.

TIL that despite automation increasing by ~300% ever since 1950, unemployment and underemployment have increased. Wait, UHHHHH

That's not to say of my previously stated report on the link between growth and unemployment (i.e. job dependency of the economy), which has been preserved over this whole time. The economy nowadays is no less dependent on jobs to grow than what it was in 1950, despite a relative fourfold increase on the machinery density in the workplace over the same time period.

I never said I was totally anti-efficiency but that I’m against chasing efficiency just to be efficient without thinking about the workers

Facts and economic theory don't care about your feelings...? Do I need to think of the workers when explaining the Say's law now because it makes stuff more beautiful?

I am Pro-worker. I’m for keeping their jobs and making sure that they are put into the homeless shelter. If we have to be somewhat inefficient because of that than so be it. I’m not going to chase efficiency for efficiencies sake.

>be pro-worker, wants to keep people's jobs
>ignores the link between worker compensation and productivity, and the link between investment and job creation
>doesn't want more efficiency
uhhhh recheck whatever you're basing your ideology off, amigo

Because if we wanted to be super efficient than we automate everything and fire all humans. That’s anti-worker.

That's of course using the absurd axiom that machines don't depend on human labor to be more efficient

[Hammer Britannia]

People *do* live on minimum wage jobs, you know.

Then why do need to increase the minimum wage? Checkmate progressives

Because we got to be a nanny state where every kid gets to eat ice cream by forcing the richest kid to pay for it.

[Great Minarchistan]

Nah, it's not technically impossible. Let GM have his heyday for a bit with "increased efficiency in the field of productivity" since literally the only thing that matters is economic issues and not social ones or political ones, and see how long it takes for the jobless, starving masses to tear down his silly little utopian right-"Libertarian" dream.

Sorry my fellow I'm an econ pseud training to be an econ grad, my future nutritional necessities rely on sound and empirically-endorsed economic theory :^)

[Kramanica]

Then why do need to increase the minimum wage? Checkmate progressives

Because we got to be a nanny state where every kid gets to eat ice cream by forcing the richest kid to pay for it.

T W O S C O O P S

[Great Minarchistan]

Average studio apartment in Tacoma is ~780$. Tacoma is distinctly above average in living expenses, although Washington as a whole is also above average. A quick look online finds Tacoma apartments as low as 500$.

0/10 see me after class.

I legit spent 10+ minutes looking at prices and found nothing below $775 (most were nearing 1,100 actually) except one place in Lakewood and nobody wants to live there lol*. Guess we were just looking at different sites or something.

*source: lived in Lakewood for a while

According to BLS the median is $800 but that's for 2013-14 iirc, so bump it to $1000 based on housing price increases + cpi and we're fine on that I guess

[Conserative Morality]

Then why do need to increase the minimum wage? Checkmate progressives

Because my teeth are shit because I can't afford the copay to go to the dentist and get drilled.

Because I'm up to my neck in debt from hospital bills that I can't afford at minimum wage.

Because companies love hiring people part-time and screwing them over, especially in poverty-stricken areas where there are few alternatives.

Because if I needed a car to go to-and-fro from work I wouldn't be able to afford to eat.

Because if I wanted to go back to college to get a better degree I would be up shit creek in terms of being able to swallow the cost of living and attending college to better my lot in life.

Because situations like that are less than optimal for the continued maintenance and health of individuals and society.

Take your pick.

I'm fine with my position in life. But I have no children nor a spouse, live near where I work, and I live in the cheapest area of my state, in a state with an already-higher-than-average minimum wage. I am under no illusions that living with minimum wage is easy or pleasant. Only that it's possible, and for many of us, an inescapable reality.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Then why do need to increase the minimum wage? Checkmate progressives

Because my teeth are shit because I can't afford the copay to go to the dentist and get drilled.

Because I'm up to my neck in debt from hospital bills that I can't afford at minimum wage.

Because companies love hiring people part-time and screwing them over, especially in poverty-stricken areas where there are few alternatives.

Because if I needed a car to go to-and-fro from work I wouldn't be able to afford to eat.

Because if I wanted to go back to college to get a better degree I would be up shit creek in terms of being able to swallow the cost of living and attending college to better my lot in life.

Because situations like that are less than optimal for the continued maintenance and health of individuals and society.

Take your pick.

I'm fine with my position in life. But I have no children nor a spouse, live near where I work, and I live in the cheapest area of my state, in a state with an already-higher-than-average minimum wage. I am under no illusions that living with minimum wage is easy or pleasant. Only that it's possible, and for many of us, an inescapable reality.

fwiw I agree entirely and my economics have shifted to the left over the past year or so as a result, that opportunity was just too good to pass up.

[Great Minarchistan]

Because my teeth are shit because I can't afford the copay to go to the dentist and get drilled.

Because I'm up to my neck in debt from hospital bills that I can't afford at minimum wage.

Because companies love hiring people part-time and screwing them over, especially in poverty-stricken areas where there are few alternatives.

Because if I needed a car to go to-and-fro from work I wouldn't be able to afford to eat.

Because if I wanted to go back to college to get a better degree I would be up shit creek in terms of being able to swallow the cost of living and attending college to better my lot in life.

Because situations like that are less than optimal for the continued maintenance and health of individuals and society.

Take your pick.

I'm fine with my position in life. But I have no children nor a spouse, live near where I work, and I live in the cheapest area of my state, in a state with an already-higher-than-average minimum wage. I am under no illusions that living with minimum wage is easy or pleasant. Only that it's possible, and for many of us, an inescapable reality.

Be a more productive worker, improve your traits, get a higher educational attainment etc. Minimum wage jobs are suited for low-productivity workers, hiking it to $15 or whatever the level you desire it to go to won't magically increase your human capital = increased job stress on the market

[Thermodolia]

Still not socialism.

Also UBI is impossible

I didn't say it was socialism. It's just what I advocate.

Why is UBI impossible?

It’s too fucking expensive. It’s utopia

[Conserative Morality]

fwiw I agree entirely and my economics have shifted to the left over the past year or so as a result, that opportunity was just too good to pass up.

I figured you were just joking around with the smiley but I feel bitter and angry so I needed to say something.

[Hammer Britannia]

Because my teeth are shit because I can't afford the copay to go to the dentist and get drilled.

Because I'm up to my neck in debt from hospital bills that I can't afford at minimum wage.

Because companies love hiring people part-time and screwing them over, especially in poverty-stricken areas where there are few alternatives.

Because if I needed a car to go to-and-fro from work I wouldn't be able to afford to eat.

Because if I wanted to go back to college to get a better degree I would be up shit creek in terms of being able to swallow the cost of living and attending college to better my lot in life.

Because situations like that are less than optimal for the continued maintenance and health of individuals and society.

Take your pick.

I'm fine with my position in life. But I have no children nor a spouse, live near where I work, and I live in the cheapest area of my state, in a state with an already-higher-than-average minimum wage. I am under no illusions that living with minimum wage is easy or pleasant. Only that it's possible, and for many of us, an inescapable reality.

fwiw I agree entirely and my economics have shifted to the left over the past year or so as a result, that opportunity was just too good to pass up.

U traitor

[Thermodolia]

I didn't say it was socialism. It's just what I advocate.

Why is UBI impossible?

Because 'Calvinist work ethic' would be destroyed by the idea that you don't have to be miserable in order to live.

Why do you keep assuming I’m a capitalist republican and continue to strawman shit?

[Thermodolia]

No, you'd be an abomination.

Suffer not the machine to live

You're welcome to try and oppress the people with ocean liner pistons for arms.

---

Literally any city larger than 100,000 people is more than that lol. Studio apartments in Tacoma come in at about 1,100 and if you're in Seattle it can be anywhere from 1,300-2,900 for a small apartment . Yeah for people like me out in the boonies an extra 15K per year would be nice but for our urban brethren it's nothing.

Your urban brethren would not benefit from having their rent covered?

America is a strange place.

Cost of living is insanely high in the US

[Kramanica]

Then why do need to increase the minimum wage? Checkmate progressives

Because my teeth are shit because I can't afford the copay to go to the dentist and get drilled.

Because I'm up to my neck in debt from hospital bills that I can't afford at minimum wage.

Because companies love hiring people part-time and screwing them over, especially in poverty-stricken areas where there are few alternatives.

Because if I needed a car to go to-and-fro from work I wouldn't be able to afford to eat.

Because if I wanted to go back to college to get a better degree I would be up shit creek in terms of being able to swallow the cost of living and attending college to better my lot in life.

Because situations like that are less than optimal for the continued maintenance and health of individuals and society.

Take your pick.

I'm fine with my position in life. But I have no children nor a spouse, live near where I work, and I live in the cheapest area of my state, in a state with an already-higher-than-average minimum wage. I am under no illusions that living with minimum wage is easy or pleasant. Only that it's possible, and for many of us, an inescapable reality.

I was going to say something sarcastic but then I remembered I favor workers seizing control over the means of production so that a minimum wage is no longer necessary.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Because my teeth are shit because I can't afford the copay to go to the dentist and get drilled.

Because I'm up to my neck in debt from hospital bills that I can't afford at minimum wage.

Because companies love hiring people part-time and screwing them over, especially in poverty-stricken areas where there are few alternatives.

Because if I needed a car to go to-and-fro from work I wouldn't be able to afford to eat.

Because if I wanted to go back to college to get a better degree I would be up shit creek in terms of being able to swallow the cost of living and attending college to better my lot in life.

Because situations like that are less than optimal for the continued maintenance and health of individuals and society.

Take your pick.

I'm fine with my position in life. But I have no children nor a spouse, live near where I work, and I live in the cheapest area of my state, in a state with an already-higher-than-average minimum wage. I am under no illusions that living with minimum wage is easy or pleasant. Only that it's possible, and for many of us, an inescapable reality.

I was going to say something sarcastic but then I remembered I favor workers seizing control over the means of production so that a minimum wage is no longer necessary.

Too left wing, plz go