Democratic Socialism in the U.S and How to Pay for It?

[Freezic Vast]

The Socialist fears the calculator

It would explain so much as to why Bernie's so called plan would ruin the country even moreso.

[Mystic Warriors]

I've said it before and will say it again, basic math is the enemy of these sorts.

She's like a slot machine for dumbass quotes.

I guess you forgot how many dumbass quotes Trump has made.

[Page]

How to pay for a democratic socialist state in the US:

Cut the Military, No More Unnecessary Wars

The first thing would be to (gradually) scale down the military budget over several years. The USA would still have the ultimate deterrent military and the most powerful one in the world on half of what it currently spends and would not be threatened. Pulling out of Afghanistan immediately will save trillions of dollars if we might remain for decades to come. Declining to start new wars in countries that never attacked us will also save trillions. No more "special forces in advisory roles", no more drone runs. The military is used only if the US or a NATO ally is attacked or under threat of an imminent attack.

Single Payer Health Care

Paying for health care will require a tax increase. However, we have to keep in mind that a single payer health care system REPLACES the current system, which means that while one's taxes will increase, they will no longer be paying insurance premiums, nor will they pay copays when they get sick.

Just for a hypothetical example: Say a middle class citizen pays $4400 per year in health insurance. This citizen's taxes are increased by the same amount, so they are paying no more or less than before. However, when one day this person gets severely ill and requires long term hospitalization, they will not have to pay copays. Currently, if one has "good" insurance, their insurance provider might pay 90% of a $50,000 bill, and the person will still be on the hook for $5000, more than one year's worth of insurance.

Now, with a single payer system in which copays don't exist, this person pays less overall. Anyone who ever gets severely sick or injured, even upper middle class people who might pay slightly more in taxes than they were previously paying in copays, will save money overall. The only ones who might pay more through the course of their life are well-off people who never end up getting sick. The cost of health care will also decrease if strict price controls are imposed on hospitals and pharmaceutical companies.

Invest in Renewable Energy, Export the Oil and Natural Gas

A large scale investment in renewable energy will initially cause a massive deficit increase, however this will eventually be offset and even be profitable, because once our need for oil and natural gas has diminished, we have significant amounts of oil and natural gas that we can sell to the rest of the world that has not yet developed their own renewable energy infrastructure.

Student Loan Amnesty

The US government forgiving all student loans certainly sounds expensive, however the money that millions of citizens no longer have to pay will be money injected straight into the economy and people whose debts are erased buy products and services. The United States will reap the benefits of this through sales tax and more corporate income tax paid because corporations will earn more profits once people use this disposable income.

Going forward, student loans will be nationalized with only a minimal amount of interest, enough for the system to break even. We can begin a gradual process to make colleges tuition free, but nationalizing student loans is a good temporary measure to start with.

[Big Jim P]

Lets increase the minimum wage to $15 (Or just over double). I can and will support this. As long as everyone making an hourly wage gets an equal, proportionate raise.

[Ifreann]

She didn't claim that, though.

You should not lie.

"Americans have the sticker shock of health care as it is,” said Ms. Ocasio-Cortez, who won her Democratic primary in New York. “And what we’re also not talking about is why aren’t we incorporating the cost of all the funeral expenses of those who die because they can’t afford access to health care? That is part of the cost of our system.“

You mean to tell me she didn't say the above quote?

Hmm....

That quote where the word "cheaper" does not appear anywhere? If I'm telling you anything it's that you are reading things that don't exist. So maybe I was wrong and you aren't lying, you're just hallucinating.

---

She didn't claim that, though.

You should not lie.

Actually she claimed her miracle healthcare plan will be so cheap that the government would also be able to pay for everyone's funeral... and that they should... while refusing to explain why it'd be so cheap.

The fuck is wrong with you people? Did someone spike the water supply?

[Wysten]

How to pay for a democratic socialist state in the US:

Cut the Military, No More Unnecessary Wars

The first thing would be to (gradually) scale down the military budget over several years. The USA would still have the ultimate deterrent military and the most powerful one in the world on half of what it currently spends and would not be threatened. Pulling out of Afghanistan immediately will save trillions of dollars if we might remain for decades to come. Declining to start new wars in countries that never attacked us will also save trillions. No more "special forces in advisory roles", no more drone runs. The military is used only if the US or a NATO ally is attacked or under threat of an imminent attack.

Single Payer Health Care

Paying for health care will require a tax increase. However, we have to keep in mind that a single payer health care system REPLACES the current system, which means that while one's taxes will increase, they will no longer be paying insurance premiums, nor will they pay copays when they get sick.

Just for a hypothetical example: Say a middle class citizen pays $4400 per year in health insurance. This citizen's taxes are increased by the same amount, so they are paying no more or less than before. However, when one day this person gets severely ill and requires long term hospitalization, they will not have to pay copays. Currently, if one has "good" insurance, their insurance provider might pay 90% of a $50,000 bill, and the person will still be on the hook for $5000, more than one year's worth of insurance.

Now, with a single payer system in which copays don't exist, this person pays less overall. Anyone who ever gets severely sick or injured, even upper middle class people who might pay slightly more in taxes than they were previously paying in copays, will save money overall. The only ones who might pay more through the course of their life are well-off people who never end up getting sick. The cost of health care will also decrease if strict price controls are imposed on hospitals and pharmaceutical companies.

Invest in Renewable Energy, Export the Oil and Natural Gas

A large scale investment in renewable energy will initially cause a massive deficit increase, however this will eventually be offset and even be profitable, because once our need for oil and natural gas has diminished, we have significant amounts of oil and natural gas that we can sell to the rest of the world that has not yet developed their own renewable energy infrastructure.

Student Loan Amnesty

The US government forgiving all student loans certainly sounds expensive, however the money that millions of citizens no longer have to pay will be money injected straight into the economy and people whose debts are erased buy products and services. The United States will reap the benefits of this through sales tax and more corporate income tax paid because corporations will earn more profits once people use this disposable income.

Going forward, student loans will be nationalized with only a minimal amount of interest, enough for the system to break even. We can begin a gradual process to make colleges tuition free, but nationalizing student loans is a good temporary measure to start with.

16% of spending is devoted to the military meanwhile entitlements make up for half of spending. Sauce

[Uxupox]

How to pay for a democratic socialist state in the US:

Cut the Military, No More Unnecessary Wars

The first thing would be to (gradually) scale down the military budget over several years. The USA would still have the ultimate deterrent military and the most powerful one in the world on half of what it currently spends and would not be threatened. Pulling out of Afghanistan immediately will save trillions of dollars if we might remain for decades to come. Declining to start new wars in countries that never attacked us will also save trillions. No more "special forces in advisory roles", no more drone runs. The military is used only if the US or a NATO ally is attacked or under threat of an imminent attack.

Single Payer Health Care

Paying for health care will require a tax increase. However, we have to keep in mind that a single payer health care system REPLACES the current system, which means that while one's taxes will increase, they will no longer be paying insurance premiums, nor will they pay copays when they get sick.

Just for a hypothetical example: Say a middle class citizen pays $4400 per year in health insurance. This citizen's taxes are increased by the same amount, so they are paying no more or less than before. However, when one day this person gets severely ill and requires long term hospitalization, they will not have to pay copays. Currently, if one has "good" insurance, their insurance provider might pay 90% of a $50,000 bill, and the person will still be on the hook for $5000, more than one year's worth of insurance.

Now, with a single payer system in which copays don't exist, this person pays less overall. Anyone who ever gets severely sick or injured, even upper middle class people who might pay slightly more in taxes than they were previously paying in copays, will save money overall. The only ones who might pay more through the course of their life are well-off people who never end up getting sick. The cost of health care will also decrease if strict price controls are imposed on hospitals and pharmaceutical companies.

Invest in Renewable Energy, Export the Oil and Natural Gas

A large scale investment in renewable energy will initially cause a massive deficit increase, however this will eventually be offset and even be profitable, because once our need for oil and natural gas has diminished, we have significant amounts of oil and natural gas that we can sell to the rest of the world that has not yet developed their own renewable energy infrastructure.

Student Loan Amnesty

The US government forgiving all student loans certainly sounds expensive, however the money that millions of citizens no longer have to pay will be money injected straight into the economy and people whose debts are erased buy products and services. The United States will reap the benefits of this through sales tax and more corporate income tax paid because corporations will earn more profits once people use this disposable income.

Going forward, student loans will be nationalized with only a minimal amount of interest, enough for the system to break even. We can begin a gradual process to make colleges tuition free, but nationalizing student loans is a good temporary measure to start with.

16% of spending is devoted to the military meanwhile entitlements make up for half of spending.

It seems people don't like informing themselves on what the budget is actually for.

[Mystic Warriors]

16% of spending is devoted to the military meanwhile entitlements make up for half of spending.

It seems people don't like informing themselves on what the budget is actually for.

Entitlements are what it's for as well. That and the fact is the USA pays more per capita and total on healthcare than any other nation. How would us using Canadas system be more expensive when we pay more than they do now?

[Wysten]

It seems people don't like informing themselves on what the budget is actually for.

Entitlements are what it's for as well. That and the fact is the USA pays more per capita and total on healthcare than any other nation. How would us using Canadas system be more expensive when we pay more than they do now?

Because because of their system Canada is having a huge debt problem.

[Mystic Warriors]

Entitlements are what it's for as well. That and the fact is the USA pays more per capita and total on healthcare than any other nation. How would us using Canadas system be more expensive when we pay more than they do now?

Because because of their system Canada is having a huge debt problem.

That doesnt answer my question, and our debt is worse.

[Wysten]

Because because of their system Canada is having a huge debt problem.

That doesnt answer my question, and our debt is worse.

Maybe it's worse because we spend so much on healthcare and entitlements.

[Mystic Warriors]

That doesnt answer my question, and our debt is worse.

Maybe it's worse because we spend so much on healthcare and entitlements.

Why are you refusing to answer the question?

[Wysten]

Maybe it's worse because we spend so much on healthcare and entitlements.

Why are you refusing to answer the question?

I did answer your question by saying that Canada was in massive debt and now make that over the entire US then it will cost more.

[Mystic Warriors]

Why are you refusing to answer the question?

I did answer your question by saying that Canada was in massive debt and now make that over the entire US then it will cost more.

No you didnt answer the question. You just said something about their debt without knowing what is causing it and that's it. Per capita they spend less, so knowing that it would still be cheaper. Again, why would us changing to a system that is per capita cheaper cause costs to go up. You haven't answered that.

[Thanatttynia]

That doesnt answer my question, and our debt is worse.

Maybe it's worse because we spend so much on healthcare and entitlements.

Don't dress your ideological conviction that poor people don't deserve to live a decent life up in concern for the economy. There are plenty of nations with massive welfare states with much less debt than the US, the two things are not related in that way.

[Ardoki]

Democratic socialism supports a socialist economic system (social ownership of the means of production). It is very different to the watered-down version of social democracy Bernie Sanders and friends are talking about.

Americans think the Roman Empire, an autocratic and imperialistic slave-owning state, is socialist because they built roads and aqueducts.

No wonder Trump was elected there.

[Thermodolia]

How to pay for a democratic socialist state in the US:

First off absolutely none of this is socialist. Socialism isn’t “the government does stuff”, Socialism is when the workers own the means of production.

Cut the Military, No More Unnecessary Wars

The first thing would be to (gradually) scale down the military budget over several years. The USA would still have the ultimate deterrent military and the most powerful one in the world on half of what it currently spends and would not be threatened. Pulling out of Afghanistan immediately will save trillions of dollars if we might remain for decades to come. Declining to start new wars in countries that never attacked us will also save trillions. No more "special forces in advisory roles", no more drone runs. The military is used only if the US or a NATO ally is attacked or under threat of an imminent attack.

Pulling out of a few places like Afghanistan and parts of Europe wouldn’t be a bad idea. However the rest is absolutely shit, we aren’t fucking Canada or something other borderline pacifist nation.

Single Payer Health Care

Paying for health care will require a tax increase. However, we have to keep in mind that a single payer health care system REPLACES the current system, which means that while one's taxes will increase, they will no longer be paying insurance premiums, nor will they pay copays when they get sick.

Just for a hypothetical example: Say a middle class citizen pays $4400 per year in health insurance. This citizen's taxes are increased by the same amount, so they are paying no more or less than before. However, when one day this person gets severely ill and requires long term hospitalization, they will not have to pay copays. Currently, if one has "good" insurance, their insurance provider might pay 90% of a $50,000 bill, and the person will still be on the hook for $5000, more than one year's worth of insurance.

Now, with a single payer system in which copays don't exist, this person pays less overall. Anyone who ever gets severely sick or injured, even upper middle class people who might pay slightly more in taxes than they were previously paying in copays, will save money overall. The only ones who might pay more through the course of their life are well-off people who never end up getting sick. The cost of health care will also decrease if strict price controls are imposed on hospitals and pharmaceutical companies.

I will say it again. The single payer system is absolutely shit. Multi Payer is a much better system. We could have a system like Germany where the government pays a certain base amount and the private sector picks up the rest.

Or we have two national health care Corporations, the US National Health Insurance Corporation And the US National Pharmaceutical Corporation, while private health care still exists and the government will also pay a base amount of 30%.

Those who cannot afford the private health care can get a plan from the national corporation.

Invest in Renewable Energy, Export the Oil and Natural Gas

A large scale investment in renewable energy will initially cause a massive deficit increase, however this will eventually be offset and even be profitable, because once our need for oil and natural gas has diminished, we have significant amounts of oil and natural gas that we can sell to the rest of the world that has not yet developed their own renewable energy infrastructure.

Not bad. But let’s focus more on Nuclear Energy, while also exporting Oil, Natural Gas, and Coal.

Student Loan Amnesty

The US government forgiving all student loans certainly sounds expensive, however the money that millions of citizens no longer have to pay will be money injected straight into the economy and people whose debts are erased buy products and services. The United States will reap the benefits of this through sales tax and more corporate income tax paid because corporations will earn more profits once people use this disposable income.

Going forward, student loans will be nationalized with only a minimal amount of interest, enough for the system to break even. We can begin a gradual process to make colleges tuition free, but nationalizing student loans is a good temporary measure to start with.

Horrible. Absolutely horrible. The student loan debt should definitely be nationalized but it shouldn’t just be written off. Instead we should have a debt restructure program. Such a program will offer lower interest rates and longer interest free periods.

[Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft]

Except it's not and actual studies show it does increase unemployment. Don't let facts get in the way of a narrative tho.

Lets say you increased the minimum wage for a fast food worker.If you continued to increase the minimum wage at some point it would be more affordable for the employer to automize the fast foods workers position with a robot due to it being better and more cheap than paying for a human.

(Sorry for it being so poorly written and hard to read I don’t have an excuse for why its so hard to read) also the way I discribed it was very simplified but I hope you get the general idea

Given how fast AI is being developed, such jobs would be automated within a couple of decades anyway

[Thermodolia]

Lets say you increased the minimum wage for a fast food worker.If you continued to increase the minimum wage at some point it would be more affordable for the employer to automize the fast foods workers position with a robot due to it being better and more cheap than paying for a human.

(Sorry for it being so poorly written and hard to read I don’t have an excuse for why its so hard to read) also the way I discribed it was very simplified but I hope you get the general idea

Given how fast AI is being developed, such jobs would be automated within a couple of decades anyway

Ah the old its going to be automated away so why bother argument.

[Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft]

Cut the Military, No More Unnecessary Wars

The first thing would be to (gradually) scale down the military budget over several years. The USA would still have the ultimate deterrent military and the most powerful one in the world on half of what it currently spends and would not be threatened. Pulling out of Afghanistan immediately will save trillions of dollars if we might remain for decades to come. Declining to start new wars in countries that never attacked us will also save trillions. No more "special forces in advisory roles", no more drone runs. The military is used only if the US or a NATO ally is attacked or under threat of an imminent attack.

Pulling out of a few places like Afghanistan and parts of Europe wouldn’t be a bad idea. However the rest is absolutely shit, we aren’t fucking Canada or something other borderline pacifist nation.

Edit: The United States' military spending is larger than that of China, Russia, India, Saudi Arabia, the UK, France, Germany, Japan and South Korea combined.

[Uxupox]

Pulling out of a few places like Afghanistan and parts of Europe wouldn’t be a bad idea. However the rest is absolutely shit, we aren’t fucking Canada or something other borderline pacifist nation.

adopt a non-interventionist role and it would make sense. However at this day and age only China would have the capability to replace the Americans as the global gendarmie of the world.

[Grater Tovakia]

Unpopular opinion: Let's have ANCAPs and these Cortez types run against each other for the entertainment value.

[Aclion]

Pulling out of a few places like Afghanistan and parts of Europe wouldn’t be a bad idea. However the rest is absolutely shit, we aren’t fucking Canada or something other borderline pacifist nation.

Edit: The United States' military spending is larger than that of China, Russia, India, Saudi Arabia, the UK, France, Germany, Japan and South Korea combined.

Here have a chart that doesn't ignore two thirds of federal spending. Remember that this is only federal, and that most of the funding for public welfare programs is collected at state and local levels.

[Grater Tovakia]

Pulling out of a few places like Afghanistan and parts of Europe wouldn’t be a bad idea. However the rest is absolutely shit, we aren’t fucking Canada or something other borderline pacifist nation.

Edit: The United States' military spending is larger than that of China, Russia, India, Saudi Arabia, the UK, France, Germany, Japan and South Korea combined.

Chart Source?

[Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft]

Edit: The United States' military spending is larger than that of China, Russia, India, Saudi Arabia, the UK, France, Germany, Japan and South Korea combined.

Here have a chart that doesn't ignore two thirds of federal spending. Remember that this is only federal, and that most of the funding for public welfare programs is collected at state and local levels.

Still, the US military is overfunded - if the US halved it's military budget, it would still be the world's most powerful military force, and the US government would have an additional $340 billion to spend on democratic "socialist" (still capitalist really) reforms.