Democratic Socialism in the U.S and How to Pay for It?

[Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft]

With the absurd amount of money we spend on health care annually as a result of the convoluted system with private insurers, single payer would actually cost about the same as our current system, while also streamlining and drastically improving our fucked up healthcare system.

After WW2, we led the world in our post-secondary education system by having low costs for college, thus helping expand our booming post-war workforce and employment gains. Hell, the new plan to boost military spending alone could pay for a college system that is much, much cheaper. And with college more accessible to all, the workforce would expand, as would spending power as young folks wouldn't be buried in crippling debt just because they wanted an education.

Third, when the government helps subsidize programs that shouldn't be fucking expensive anyways, people have more purchasing power since they're not spending ridiculous amounts of their income on various loans, premiums, and insurance.

It's not rocket science. While I doubt that we can make college "totally free of charge" or implement "full Scandinavian style single payer" within the next decade or two, we can easily make steps to make healthcare and education more accessible to all, while also raising the minimum wage to help Americans who live paycheck to paycheck despite working over 50 hours a week just to get by. We can have a fairer, healthier economic system, and feasibly the worst case scenario is raising taxes on the wealthy, cutting military spending, pork barrel spending, etc etc. It isn't "socialism," it's just alleviating and curbing the excesses of cutthroat capitalism that has created staggering inequalities in my country for the last half-century.

>Raise the minimum wage
That's a funny way of saying of increasing unemployment.

Raising the minimum wage in no way increases unemployment - it's a right-wing myth from business owners who think that their mansion/Lamborghini/whatever is more important than their employees actually having a minimum wage. You still have to work to get an increased minimum wage, so it doesn't even hold up to right-wingers' own logic.

[Pollona]

And what's funny is the argument that raising the minimum wage increases unemployment. It's merely a right wing myth propagated by people who would rather not pay their workers a living wage.

Professor William Lester and others of the University of North Carolina, for instance, found that with every minimum wage hike, unemployment never rose as a result of the increase. Now and again, there would be fluctuations that occurred due to the nature of the global and domestic economy, but that's it. The minimum wage rises didn't affect growth and employment much at all, in fact, unemployment and consumer spending stayed very similar in states with a higher MW than states without, according to the study.

You might want to be careful citing Lester as definitive proof that minimum wage hikes do not cause unemployment. In 2011 Baskaya and Rubenstein found corresponding minimum wage hikes were associated with declines in employment, that same year Sen, Rybczynski, and Van De Waal concluded that minimum wage hikes were inversely related to teenage employment. There are plenty of other, more recent studies out there confirming the neo-classical understanding of the minimum wage. A meta analysis of minimum wage studies did find that the average change in overall employment given a minimum wage hike was near 0%, but these studies concentrated on overall employment and not specific labor markets. There is a larger consensus that teenagers and younger people are disproportionally affected.

Of course, since the minimum wage represents only 2.3% of the US labor force in 2017, and half of those paid the minimum wage were under 25, its highly likely that steep minimum wage hikes will only increase youth unemployment.

This of course, from someone who recognizes that the buying power of the minimum wage in the US peaked in the late 60s.

[Torrocca]

And what's funny is the argument that raising the minimum wage increases unemployment. It's merely a right wing myth propagated by people who would rather not pay their workers a living wage.

Professor William Lester and others of the University of North Carolina, for instance, found that with every minimum wage hike, unemployment never rose as a result of the increase. Now and again, there would be fluctuations that occurred due to the nature of the global and domestic economy, but that's it. The minimum wage rises didn't affect growth and employment much at all, in fact, unemployment and consumer spending stayed very similar in states with a higher MW than states without, according to the study.

You might want to be careful citing Lester as definitive proof that minimum wage hikes do not cause unemployment. In 2011 Baskaya and Rubenstein found corresponding minimum wage hikes were associated with declines in employment, that same year Sen, Rybczynski, and Van De Waal concluded that minimum wage hikes were inversely related to teenage employment. There are plenty of other, more recent studies out there confirming the neo-classical understanding of the minimum wage. A meta analysis of minimum wage studies did find that the average change in overall employment given a minimum wage hike was near 0%, but these studies concentrated on overall employment and not specific labor markets. There is a larger consensus that teenagers and younger people are disproportionally affected.

Of course, since the minimum wage represents only 2.3% of the US labor force in 2017, and half of those paid the minimum wage were under 25, its highly likely that steep minimum wage hikes will only increase youth unemployment.

This of course, from someone who recognizes that the buying power of the minimum wage in the US peaked in the late 60s.

Sure, only 2.3% makes minimum wage, but nearly half of all workers in America make less than $15 dollars an hour.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Sure, only 2.3% makes minimum wage, but nearly half of all workers in America make less than $15 dollars an hour.

Of course they use a picture of morons from my state for something relating to that $15 nonsense lol

[Hammer Britannia]

Raising the minimum wage in no way increases unemployment - it's a right-wing myth from business owners who think that their mansion/Lamborghini/whatever is more important than their employees actually having a minimum wage. You still have to work to get an increased minimum wage, so it doesn't even hold up to right-wingers' own logic.

Fun Fact: Most business owners are small ones. Source

Most can't afford a Lamborghini, let alone enough money to give their employee's more money.

If I only output so much value, to be forced to give me more money would just be unfair on all of our parts except for mine.

[Oil exporting People]

Professor William Lester and others of the University of North Carolina, for instance, found that with every minimum wage hike, unemployment never rose as a result of the increase. Now and again, there would be fluctuations that occurred due to the nature of the global and domestic economy, but that's it. The minimum wage rises didn't affect growth and employment much at all, in fact, unemployment and consumer spending stayed very similar in states with a higher MW than states without, according to the study.

> Cherrypicks one study

The actual literature on the whole, not just one study you like, shows unemployment increases.

[Oil exporting People]

Raising the minimum wage in no way increases unemployment - it's a right-wing myth from business owners who think that their mansion/Lamborghini/whatever is more important than their employees actually having a minimum wage. You still have to work to get an increased minimum wage, so it doesn't even hold up to right-wingers' own logic.

Except it's not and actual studies show it does increase unemployment. Don't let facts get in the way of a narrative tho.

[Republic of Turbin]

Raising the minimum wage in no way increases unemployment - it's a right-wing myth from business owners who think that their mansion/Lamborghini/whatever is more important than their employees actually having a minimum wage. You still have to work to get an increased minimum wage, so it doesn't even hold up to right-wingers' own logic.

Except it's not and actual studies show it does increase unemployment. Don't let facts get in the way of a narrative tho.

Lets say you increased the minimum wage for a fast food worker.If you continued to increase the minimum wage at some point it would be more affordable for the employer to automize the fast foods workers position with a robot due to it being better and more cheap than paying for a human.

(Sorry for it being so poorly written and hard to read I don’t have an excuse for why its so hard to read) also the way I discribed it was very simplified but I hope you get the general idea

[Great Minarchistan]

Way to cherrypick my entire argument.

And what's funny is the argument that raising the minimum wage increases unemployment. It's merely a right wing myth propagated by people who would rather not pay their workers a living wage.

Worker compensation is proportional to worker productivity, that's an empirical given. Increasing MW isn't a magic trick to increase productivity, deregs + entrepreneurship + high investment ratio is.

Professor William Lester and others of the University of North Carolina, for instance, found that with every minimum wage hike, unemployment never rose as a result of the increase.

When were the hikes realized, how high did minimum wage become as a proportion of median income, what was the effect over the following recession...?

Now and again, there would be fluctuations that occurred due to the nature of the global and domestic economy, but that's it. The minimum wage rises didn't affect growth and employment much at all, in fact, unemployment and consumer spending stayed very similar in states with a higher MW than states without, according to the study.

>Implying consumption-push growth
*household debt and lowered economic dynamism wave at you in unison*

[Longweather]

Sure, only 2.3% makes minimum wage, but nearly half of all workers in America make less than $15 dollars an hour.

Of course they use a picture of morons from my state for something relating to that $15 nonsense lol

Seeing people advocate for a federal minimum wage of $15 based on calling it a living wage hurts me. It either overcompensates for cost of living or undercompensates pretty much every place I've ever lived in the US.

[West Leas Oros 2]

It would appear I have been summoned.

[Great Minarchistan]

You might want to be careful citing Lester as definitive proof that minimum wage hikes do not cause unemployment. In 2011 Baskaya and Rubenstein found corresponding minimum wage hikes were associated with declines in employment, that same year Sen, Rybczynski, and Van De Waal concluded that minimum wage hikes were inversely related to teenage employment. There are plenty of other, more recent studies out there confirming the neo-classical understanding of the minimum wage. A meta analysis of minimum wage studies did find that the average change in overall employment given a minimum wage hike was near 0%, but these studies concentrated on overall employment and not specific labor markets. There is a larger consensus that teenagers and younger people are disproportionally affected.

Of course, since the minimum wage represents only 2.3% of the US labor force in 2017, and half of those paid the minimum wage were under 25, its highly likely that steep minimum wage hikes will only increase youth unemployment.

This of course, from someone who recognizes that the buying power of the minimum wage in the US peaked in the late 60s.

Sure, only 2.3% makes minimum wage, but nearly half of all workers in America make less than $15 dollars an hour.

Empirically wrong.

[Torrocca]

Sure, only 2.3% makes minimum wage, but nearly half of all workers in America make less than $15 dollars an hour.

Empirically wrong.

Who would win: a study showing that nearly half of all Americans earn less than $15 dollars an hour, or two unsourced screenshot bois?

[Kramanica]

Next up on socialist stupidity, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez claims Medicare for all will be cheaper because it will save on funeral expenses... or something.

[Great Minarchistan]

Empirically wrong.

Who would win: a study showing that nearly half of all Americans earn less than $15 dollars an hour, or two unsourced screenshot bois?

Who would win: BLS's own data straight out of St. Louis Federal Reserve Economic Data or some unknown vague study?


You're welcome. The calculations are also displayed on the previous two screenshots.

[Torrocca]

-SNIP- You're welcome.

Maybe next time include that in the rest of your post before making a snide comment like this :^)

[Hammer Britannia]

-SNIP- You're welcome.

Maybe next time include that in the rest of your post before making a snide comment like this :^)

And maybe you should read them instead of posting meanless emojis beforehand :^)

[Great Minarchistan]

-SNIP- You're welcome.

Maybe next time include that in the rest of your post before making a snide comment like this :^)

You have the option to trust my word or humbly defend your argument rather than acting cocky.

[Torrocca]

Maybe next time include that in the rest of your post before making a snide comment like this :^)

And maybe you should read them instead of posting meanless emojis beforehand :^)

Two graphs without any contextual source behind them isn't a worthwhile read :^)

Maybe next time include that in the rest of your post before making a snide comment like this :^)

You have the option to trust my word or humbly defend your argument rather than acting cocky.

And you have the option not to post graphs without sources backing them up as a counter to the source(s) I post.

[Pollona]

Sure, only 2.3% makes minimum wage, but nearly half of all workers in America make less than $15 dollars an hour.

The BLS May 2017 Report, which assesses the median hourly wage of US workers at $18.12/hr, would disagree. That the study cited is from the "National Employment Law Project, an organization that supports raising the minimum wage and the unionization of workers," may point to a tiny hint of bias.

Edit: Again, I say this as someone who recognizes the real dollar value of the minimum wage peaked almost half a century ago (at just over $10/hr!).

[Thermodolia]

Sure, only 2.3% makes minimum wage, but nearly half of all workers in America make less than $15 dollars an hour.

The BLS May 2017 Report, which assesses the median hourly wage of US workers at $18.12/hr, would disagree. That the study cited is from the "National Employment Law Project, an organization that supports raising the minimum wage and the unionization of workers," may point to a tiny hint of bias.

Edit: Again, I say this as someone who recognizes the real dollar value of the minimum wage peaked almost half a century ago (at just over $10/hr!).

Tbh minimum wage shouldn’t exist in the first place. The workers should be allowed to set their wages themselves/own the means of production.

That way there is no need for such things

[Washington Resistance Army]

The BLS May 2017 Report, which assesses the median hourly wage of US workers at $18.12/hr, would disagree. That the study cited is from the "National Employment Law Project, an organization that supports raising the minimum wage and the unionization of workers," may point to a tiny hint of bias.

Edit: Again, I say this as someone who recognizes the real dollar value of the minimum wage peaked almost half a century ago (at just over $10/hr!).

Tbh minimum wage shouldn’t exist in the first place. The workers should be allowed to set their wages themselves/own the means of production.

That way there is no need for such things

You're quickly approaching traitorous territory, comrade.

[Torrocca]

The BLS May 2017 Report, which assesses the median hourly wage of US workers at $18.12/hr, would disagree. That the study cited is from the "National Employment Law Project, an organization that supports raising the minimum wage and the unionization of workers," may point to a tiny hint of bias.

Edit: Again, I say this as someone who recognizes the real dollar value of the minimum wage peaked almost half a century ago (at just over $10/hr!).

Tbh minimum wage shouldn’t exist in the first place. The workers should be allowed to set their wages themselves/own the means of production.

o shit socialism

<3

[Thermodolia]

Tbh minimum wage shouldn’t exist in the first place. The workers should be allowed to set their wages themselves/own the means of production.

That way there is no need for such things

You're quickly approaching traitorous territory, comrade.

Worker owned Co-ops are fine. Or each worker gets a share, aka stock, in the company that translates to their pay.

[Oil exporting People]

The BLS May 2017 Report, which assesses the median hourly wage of US workers at $18.12/hr, would disagree. That the study cited is from the "National Employment Law Project, an organization that supports raising the minimum wage and the unionization of workers," may point to a tiny hint of bias.

Edit: Again, I say this as someone who recognizes the real dollar value of the minimum wage peaked almost half a century ago (at just over $10/hr!).

Tbh minimum wage shouldn’t exist in the first place. The workers should be allowed to set their wages themselves/own the means of production.

That way there is no need for such things

Agreed with this.