Democratic Socialism in the U.S and How to Pay for It?

[Kramanica]

"Underused"

They pay most income taxes in this country.

And yet they're still not paying enough.

By what measurement?

[Kramanica]

No, I mean when did I have pro-Franco talk lol

Oh no I was just pointing out the NatSynd part is also pro-Franco lol

Not inherently.

[Thermodolia]

No, I don't either. However, I think this underused source of money (rich people) could be a welcome contribution to the problem: 'democratic socialism' in the U.S. and how to pay for it.

"Underused"

They pay most income taxes in this country.

Relying solely on income taxes was a mistake. Tariffs, National sales tax, and punitive fines on companies are the way to go

[Torrocca]

Oh no I was just pointing out the NatSynd part is also pro-Franco lol

Not inherently.

Eh, yeah. Fair enough. :c

[Thanatttynia]

40% is too low an income tax.

40% is on the higher end of the income tax for developed countries and the OECD. Where I live, the maximum tax rate is 33%.

I still think it's too low. Income tax in the UK used to be at 83% before Thatcher, and at (lol) 99.75% during the war. I would think 60% for the highest earners would be a reasonable ballpark figure, decreasing for those who earn less with none paid by people near or under the poverty line.

Corporation tax is the key - too low for a start, and even then multinational corporations find it so easy to weasel their way out of paying it it's essentially a 'please pay us' sticker with no real enforcement behind it.

Which would mean closing loopholes in the US and US territories and actually enforcing tax collection. Something which Congress will gawp at.

Yes, that would mean that unfortunately.

There is also zero reason a functioning public healthcare system should cost 14x the US government's revenue, that's a ludicrous figure. It could even be done without instituting any of these reforms; the US already spends more of its GDP on healthcare than most countries with public healthcare systems.

Because the predictions are based on worst-case scenarios.

Being what? A nuclear apocalypse after which the state has to pay for everyone to have their third head removed? 14x the US government's revenue is a massive figure, I simply can't fathom how the introduction of something which has been introduced in plenty of other places without anywhere near that level of financial strain would do this to the world's largest economy.

[New haven america]

And yet they're still not paying enough.

By what measurement?

By my measurement.

More taxes for them.

[Thanatttynia]

No, I don't either. However, I think this underused source of money (rich people) could be a welcome contribution to the problem: 'democratic socialism' in the U.S. and how to pay for it.

"Underused"

They pay most income taxes in this country.

As they should, as they have benefited most from what the country has given them. But it's still not enough.

[Grenartia]

Tax the wealthy and large corporations, redistribute budget priorities, mandate the minimum wage be at least Cost of Living plus some extra percentage, etc. The only obstacle to improving the country are the wealthy.

1. Forcing everyone to have piss poor health insurance isn't improving anything. 2. Also have fun explaining to your voters why you cost them their job when Walmart closes down all It's stores. Because no retail or other low end job is going to be paying 25 an hour in a major city.

1. Funny you mention that, because the US has the worst healthcare system in the world, precisely because of insurance. Replicate Canada's system, I've heard no real complaints from actual Canadians about it, and even the problems that do exist pale in comparison to the problems in the American system. Canadians, on the whole, even the ones that do complain about the problems in their system, realize this. This is why you have no real campaigns in Canada to dismantle their health system, because everyone can see the result of that just across the border.

2. Ah, the whole "wealth flight" thing (unless you're trying to foolishly argue that Walmart cannot afford to pay its workers a living wage). My solution to that is simple. Seize the assets, and fairly redistribute them to groups of workers interested in forming worker-owned cooperatives. Workers keep their jobs, probably with more pay and better benefits than previously, and consumers get the services without price increases.

[Great Minarchistan]

Sorry, I don't commit to corruption in order to trade arguments :^)

And I wasn't wrong, let's take a random example on the family living wage in Africa: Togo. It's in the order of 235000 XOF/mo., which converts to $413 a month. Take the average family size in Togo -- 4.5 births per woman + 1.5-2 parents -- and you get it to $2.30/day. That's for a living wage.

Togo wasn't on the list, so it doesn't count :^)))

...It actually was?

[Torrocca]

Togo wasn't on the list, so it doesn't count :^)))

...It actually was?

F-Fake n-news

[Great Minarchistan]

I think you are getting me and another poster confused.

A lot of rich people are crooked and corrupt. I really don’t care that they are corrupt and crooked that doesn’t bother me at all.

Again, a lot is a vague statement. You can consider a handful of 100 (faced with the ~2200 figuring on Forbes) as "a lot".

The US went neo-liberal in the 70s and 80s. And ever since it’s been pretty shit.

Define neoliberalism.

Having people having to work three jobs just to feed themselves isn’t exactly success.

Less than four percent of the American workers have more than one job.

Neither is the fact that people aren’t buying homes as they used too anymore

And while the US was capitalist in 1940-1969 it was also very different from now. It would have been closer to many modern day European nations. Hell the tax rate under Ike was very high.

Effective hasn't changed a lot ever since 1979 when CBO began to disponibilize eff. income tax rates for income percentiles, nor ever since the 1950s-60s I believe. Top tax rates were skyhigh but as I noted earlier, during the period where they were at 90ish % the income that would be taxed at those rates was the equivalent of 7-400M/yr. nowadays.

Basically the US is not and has never been a laisséz-faire Capitalist state

It died around 100 years ago, yep

[Great Minarchistan]

Search "1100 EGP to USD", divide by 30 to get a daily basis.

A link or a picture will do. I don’t trust your word

Well, this is actually sad since I'm right :^(

[Kramanica]

By what measurement?

By my measurement.

More taxes for them.

That's stupid and also not an answer.

[Kramanica]

"Underused"

They pay most income taxes in this country.

As they should, as they have benefited most from what the country has given them. But it's still not enough.

Your ideology sucks.

[Kramanica]

Not inherently.

Eh, yeah. Fair enough. :c

We will co-opt you into our movement.

[New haven america]

By my measurement.

More taxes for them.

That's stupid and also not an answer.

That reaction was stupid and it's a perfectly good answer.

[Torrocca]

Eh, yeah. Fair enough. :c

We will co-opt you into our movement.

Sorry, round two's gonna go in our favor this time, friendo. iViva la revolucion!

[Kramanica]

We will co-opt you into our movement.

Sorry, round two's gonna go in our favor this time, friendo. iViva la revolucion!

*laughs in nationalism*

[Kramanica]

That's stupid and also not an answer.

That reaction was stupid and it's a perfectly good answer.

It is a terrible answer and didn't sufficiently answer anything so I gave you my own stupid answer.

[Torrocca]

Sorry, round two's gonna go in our favor this time, friendo. iViva la revolucion!

*laughs in nationalism*

Sorry, friendo, but you don't have Jeb! and his Popular American Liberation Army on your side for this round. :^)

[New haven america]

That reaction was stupid and it's a perfectly good answer.

It is a terrible answer and didn't sufficiently answer anything so I gave you my own stupid answer.

It's a smart answer and you decided to reply with a stupid answer.

[Thanatttynia]

As they should, as they have benefited most from what the country has given them. But it's still not enough.

Your ideology sucks.

Brilliant political debate, it's going great

[Kramanica]

*laughs in nationalism*

Sorry, friendo, but you don't have Jeb! and his Popular American Liberation Army on your side for this round. :^)

[Kramanica]

It is a terrible answer and didn't sufficiently answer anything so I gave you my own stupid answer.

It's a smart answer and you decided to reply with a stupid answer.

It literally made me vomit in my mouth.

[Kramanica]

Your ideology sucks.

Brilliant political debate, it's going great

Exactly.