Democratic Socialism in the U.S and How to Pay for It?

[Great Minarchistan]

First of all, no human being deserves to have anywhere near that amount of money whilst there are people starving to death in this world for want of it.

The number of people in poverty has fallen from 95% in 1820 to approx. 10% nowadays, hence this is an ever diminishing excuse for capital accumulation, most people are poor nowadays because they didn't invest on their human capital property, nor saved and invested.

I understand how net worth works but thank you for the Economics 101 lesson. Do you do Ethics 101? Bezos and his ilk might be needing some help with that one

Where do you live?

[Torrocca]

First of all, no human being deserves to have anywhere near that amount of money whilst there are people starving to death in this world for want of it.

The number of people in poverty has fallen from 95% in 1820 to approx. 10% nowadays

Bull fuckin' shit it's only 10%.

[The Republic of Fore]

First of all, that isn't his problem. Nobody owes help to anyone else.

Yes it is and yes they do, anyone who's increadibly well off should be required to help those in need.

No It's not. And no they don't. Anybody who says "but poor people exist!" Should have give up everything they have to help the less fortunate. Practice what you preach.

[Great Minarchistan]

Still crooked as fuck.

TIL that being a good investor is bad, let's go back to the anprim era back when people didn't take economically efficient decisions trapping us on the verge of stagnation for centuries to come

Also like I said before if Walmart threaten to close down I’d threaten to seize the Walton family fortunes and nationalize Walmart

"Shut down businesses I dislike"

[Torrocca]

Good luck watching job cuts and inflation rising, that's not to say of the financial shock coming from escalation and reduction of FDI. If you think that China will be playing with the US like a good goy then be prepared for their "two-tats-for-tit" strategy

I don’t think that China will play nice. That’s why I’ve advocated for maximum tariffs on Chinese goods, funding of freedom fighters in Tibet, East Turkestan, and others, recognizing Taiwan as an independent nation, promoting Hong Kong independence and funding attacks within China.

I want to destroy China.

Can we do that with Anarchism? Pretty please? c:

[Great Minarchistan]

The number of people in poverty has fallen from 95% in 1820 to approx. 10% nowadays

Bull fuckin' shit it's only 10%.

Considering the fact that you can unironically live a good life on many african countries with approx. $1.00-1.50 a day, $2.50 a day sounds pretty good

[New haven america]

Yes it is and yes they do, anyone who's increadibly well off should be required to help those in need.

1.No It's not. 2.And no they don't. 3.Anybody who says "but poor people exist!" Should have give up everything they have to help the less fortunate.

1. Yes it is, or do you not consider 43 million people in poverty as an issue?
2. Yes they do. Most don't even use their money, they tend to just hoard it.
3. No they shouldn't, only the people who are capable of doing so should (Which means most people who are well off).

[New haven america]

Most rich people are actually born into their wealth, and it's becoming increasingly rarer for people to actually earn their wealth.

Ding ding ding, the share of millionaires that became such due to inheritance fell from approx. two thirds in the 1980s to just around one third nowadays. You're getting it wrong

... You are aware most people born in the 80's are still alive today, correct?

[Washington Resistance Army]

I don’t think that China will play nice. That’s why I’ve advocated for maximum tariffs on Chinese goods, funding of freedom fighters in Tibet, East Turkestan, and others, recognizing Taiwan as an independent nation, promoting Hong Kong independence and funding attacks within China.

I want to destroy China.

Can we do that with Anarchism? Pretty please? c:

Anarchism is a threat to national security and you'll need to labor for your sins.

[Thermodolia]

Still crooked as fuck.

Also like I said before if Walmart threaten to close down I’d threaten to seize the Walton family fortunes and nationalize Walmart

Also like I said before good luck doing that. This is reality we live in. The united states will never nationalize anything. Nevermind the fact that the combined value of all Walmart stock would be enough to give their employees about a 2$ raise.

I said nothing of Walmart stock. But the fortunes of the Walton Family will help fund several programs.

Oh and don’t be too sure that we won’t Nationalize things. There are three or more of us in this thread who would support that.

[Great Minarchistan]

Ding ding ding, the share of millionaires that became such due to inheritance fell from approx. two thirds in the 1980s to just around one third nowadays. You're getting it wrong

... You are aware most people born in the 80's are still alive today, correct?

Yeah, which makes the evolution of the self-made millionaires even more blatant. Speaking of, it's interesting to note that the median age of millionaires and billionaires is 60-65 years, while the median for the US is around 37-38 i.e. they've got around three decades ahead of the median citizen to accumulate capital and figure on Forbes

[Torrocca]

Bull fuckin' shit it's only 10%.

Considering the fact that you can unironically live a good life on many african countries with approx. $1.00-1.50 a day, $2.50 a day sounds pretty good

Zimbabwe, the lowest fucking one on that list, has a living wage for individuals of $275/month, or over $9/day. That's a fucking lie you're stating right there.

[Torrocca]

Can we do that with Anarchism? Pretty please? c:

Anarchism is a threat to national security and you'll need to labor for your sins.

But China's a threat to our glorious America, friendo. Can't have a national security threat if the Anarchism's in another place. :^)

[Thermodolia]

Still crooked as fuck.

TIL that being a good investor is bad, let's go back to the anprim era back when people didn't take economically efficient decisions trapping us on the verge of stagnation for centuries to come

Did I say that they where bad? I said that they are crooked. That’s a fact.

Also like I said before if Walmart threaten to close down I’d threaten to seize the Walton family fortunes and nationalize Walmart

"Shut down businesses I dislike"

Nope. But hey under my rule at the US won’t be living with mass unemployment.

[Thermodolia]

I don’t think that China will play nice. That’s why I’ve advocated for maximum tariffs on Chinese goods, funding of freedom fighters in Tibet, East Turkestan, and others, recognizing Taiwan as an independent nation, promoting Hong Kong independence and funding attacks within China.

I want to destroy China.

Can we do that with Anarchism? Pretty please? c:

Destroy anarchism? Why sure!

[Washington Resistance Army]

Anarchism is a threat to national security and you'll need to labor for your sins.

But China's a threat to our glorious America, friendo. Can't have a national security threat if the Anarchism's in another place. :^)

Yes we can, China itself is a threat to national security and should be dealt with accordingly.

[Torrocca]

But China's a threat to our glorious America, friendo. Can't have a national security threat if the Anarchism's in another place. :^)

Yes we can, China itself is a threat to national security and should be dealt with accordingly.

Hence turning it into a place of Anarchy. Boom, no more national threat across the ocean.

Can we do that with Anarchism? Pretty please? c:

Destroy anarchism? Why sure!

No pls Therm we're fighting the same good fight right now in this thread for the most part pls don't do this to me ;~;

[Thermodolia]

Yes we can, China itself is a threat to national security and should be dealt with accordingly.

Hence turning it into a place of Anarchy. Boom, no more national threat across the ocean.

Destroy anarchism? Why sure!

No pls Therm we're fighting the same good fight right now in this thread for the most part pls don't do this to me ;~;

So we’ll parachute you into China along with a few others to start a anarchist revolution

[Torrocca]

Hence turning it into a place of Anarchy. Boom, no more national threat across the ocean.



No pls Therm we're fighting the same good fight right now in this thread for the most part pls don't do this to me ;~;

So we’ll parachute you into China along with a few others to start a anarchist revolution

:­D

[Thanatttynia]

'All of his wealth was earned' lol

Since he came out of a household with a net worth dangerously near zero, pretty much yes

Only if you think coming into any wealth at all that you don't inherit qualifies as earning it.

The problem with people like Bezos is that it is literally unethical to be a billionaire.

TIL that if you're successful you're unethical and should proceed to be called as the scourge of the earth for creating jobs and increasing economic efficiency

At his level, pretty much.

There is a word for having this sort of money: greed.

Investment is to greed as being paid to do people's homework is exploitation of the less smart students, Bezos made good investments and his wealth progressed on an exponential-ish pace due to the natural effect of compound returns over capital

You're trying to compare economics and ethics. Ethics and capitalism don't mix well, granted. I'm not saying Bezos doesn't know how to further his own aims under capitalism, he evidently does. What I'm saying is that that is unethical.

No one needs or deserves to be that rich

When you're an entrepreneurial genius it's quite possible yeah

Lol in a world where children are dying... one man exploits labour on a scale no one has seen before...
If you sincerely believe being 'an entrepreneurial genius' means you deserve to be this obscenely wealthy whilst concurrently people are dying because they do not have enough money to live then I don't know what to tell you other than that your morality is way off

especially so when how they became that rich is through business practices as exploitative and unscrupulous as Amazon's.

Amazon employs lowly skilled labor by large, which is demonstrably true by the comparatively low productivity of each worker in there. Low skills ~= low productivity = low pay, not that hard to understand

Even by the rules of neoliberal capitalism they're particularly exploitative and unscrupulous. They rely on their size to underprice other competitors, they dodge taxes, and, yes, they underpay and overwork their workers. I could go on but I think your love for Bezos is clouding your judgment over what are and what aren't morally acceptable things to do.

First of all, no human being deserves to have anywhere near that amount of money whilst there are people starving to death in this world for want of it. I understand how net worth works but thank you for the Economics 101 lesson. Do you do Ethics 101? Bezos and his ilk might be needing some help with that one

First of all, that isn't his problem. Nobody owes help to anyone else. I have a new idea for a class though. Let's call it "bringing up the fact that something exists doesn't make you morally superior". Because bringing fact that suffering people exist just to have an excuse to demand someone else give you their money is the highest hypocrisy. How much have you done to help them? Why don't you give up everything you have? Many people around the world could say you don't deserve it. And before you say "but he has more". No, you're the one who demanded others hand over their wealth. So practice what you preach, or be quiet.

I don't want any of Bezos' money. I have no money of my own, I'm a minor. My family has no money in relation to what other people in my developed country have, but in comparison to the majority of people on the planet, of course, we're wealthy. You make a salient point there - the world is a horrifyingly unequal place which we should all do our utmost to help make better. We don't have any disposable income, though. Bezos on the other hand... billions in disposable income, which he could burn tomorrow and not care about.

I'm not demanding anyone give up any of their money to anyone else. I'm simply stating the fact that it's unethical to be a billionaire whilst there are people dying because they do not have enough money. If you're offended by that, I have to ask are you yourself Jeff Bezos? If you aren't, I have to wonder what on earth would possess you to care about his wealth.

[Great Minarchistan]

Considering the fact that you can unironically live a good life on many african countries with approx. $1.00-1.50 a day, $2.50 a day sounds pretty good

Zimbabwe, the lowest fucking one on that list, has a living wage for individuals of $275/month, or over $9/day. That's a fucking lie you're stating right there.

Good luck being fooled by checking up local currency units rather than digging the conversion thoroughly.

Ghana: $4.63/day
Egypt: $2.05/day
Zambia: $7.41/day
Mozambique: $3.51/day
South Africa: $15.72/day
Kenya: $8.12/day
Nigeria: $3.67/day
Angola: $7.28/day
Senegal: $5.09/day
Niger: $5.72/day
Togo: $6.45/day
Burundi: $4.39/day

This is of course accounting for solely individual costs, which have a heavy burden given the overhead costs that fall upon a single person. When you factor in the family living wage (which is more realistic as per the high fertility rate in Africa) then the costs are way lower.

[New haven america]

... You are aware most people born in the 80's are still alive today, correct?

Yeah, which makes the evolution of the self-made millionaires even more blatant. Speaking of, it's interesting to note that the median age of millionaires and billionaires is 60-65 years, while the median for the US is around 37-38 i.e. they've got around three decades ahead of the median citizen to accumulate capital and figure on Forbes

You are aware that those "Self-made Millionaires/Billionaires" aren't really self made, correct?

Usually what happens is that they have parents or family who are upper-middle class who can support them and get them services and training that other people can't get a hold of, causing their children/grandchildren/family to get a massive leg up in society, and keep their wealth solely with the family.

Kylie Jenner's probably the most recent example, she's technically a "Self-made Billionaire" even though she's really just piggybacking off the work of her parents and siblings (Her mom specifically).

[Senkaku]

People always say this whenever someone proposes big, expensive programs that people want, and the answer is always prrrrretty much the same- you can cut and trim or optimize for efficiency and streamline, but at the end of the day we're gonna be looking at sizable tax hikes. I would argue that a larger part of the burden should fall on the wealthiest Americans who are best able to afford it (and who have enjoyed tremendous government largesse for many years), but we'd also be talking about increases for the average American. There's really no way around it- America is wealthy enough to pay for sweeping social programs, infrastructure projects, and a powerful military, but if we want those things then we do actually have to foot the bill.

[Torrocca]

Zimbabwe, the lowest fucking one on that list, has a living wage for individuals of $275/month, or over $9/day. That's a fucking lie you're stating right there.

Good luck being fooled by checking up local currency units rather than digging the conversion thoroughly.

Thanks for making it known you didn't check your source in depth there :^)



See how it says, "USD," in there, implying a conversion of units? Because I sure did.

[Thanatttynia]

First of all, no human being deserves to have anywhere near that amount of money whilst there are people starving to death in this world for want of it.

The number of people in poverty has fallen from 95% in 1820 to approx. 10% nowadays, hence this is an ever diminishing excuse for capital accumulation, most people are poor nowadays because they didn't invest on their human capital property, nor saved and invested.

'Most people are poor nowadays because they didn't invest on their human capital property, nor saved and invested'
Wow you really hit all the bases with this one! Ignorance of economics, moral bankruptcy and missing the point were all displayed, congratulations.

Most people are poor nowadays because they were unlucky enough to be born to poor parents.

I understand how net worth works but thank you for the Economics 101 lesson. Do you do Ethics 101? Bezos and his ilk might be needing some help with that one

Where do you live?

The UK.